G2Ready
Member
Anyone else have trouble getting 8 Hrs of good sleep on cycle? Seems after 6 Hrs I'm up..... Hard to lay down any earlier so I picked up some "ZMA with Theanine"Any one tried it or got better?
Heard the dreams can be trippy
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
Getting SLEEP on cycle
- Thread starter G2Ready
- Start date
Anyone else have trouble getting 8 Hrs of good sleep on cycle? Seems after 6 Hrs I'm up..... Hard to lay down any earlier so I picked up some "ZMA with Theanine"Any one tried it or got better?
Heard the dreams can be trippy
G2Ready
Member
RodgerThat
New Member
I take ZMA at night I like how it makes my sleep but doesn't help me get to sleep or sleep longer. I take zopiclone 7.5mg for my insomnia now that shit you better make sure you have 8hrs at least to sleep cause you are not waking up and being active before then
G2Ready
Member
Zopiclone is that prescription? And u stack that with ZMA?
RodgerThat
New Member
Ya it's script only, most powerful sleep aid there is, stacking with ZMA is because ZMA makes me sleep deeply and zopiclone is what puts me asleep
G2Ready
Member
U have sleep issues 24/7 or only when on cycle? ..... Cuz when I'm off I sleep fine, maybe never deep like I want but at least until alarm goes off....
This is my preferred supplement for sleep, which contains ZMA also. I've tried ZMA alone but prefer this product. It does help you get to sleep by making you slightly drowsy but not too heavy as compared to Rx strength meds. I've never tried the one mentioned above but the many I tried made me feel shitty. Some of those drugs were actually pretty nuts....weed was much better.
The company that makes that is owned by Jaime Lewis the powerlifter. I've been a customer for quite a while.
G2Ready
Member
^^^ I like the sound of that stuff.... I bought some melatonin separate of the ZMA just in case I needed extra.... So that's cool they add that to the mix..... Stuff taste alright? Have u noticed a tolerance?
RodgerThat
New Member
Ya I had insomnia since puberty good weeks I'd sleep 24 hours total through my teens now I can get 8 with drugs and about 5-6 without most nights others I get 2-3 if it's a bad night. I've tried basically all the sleep remedies and what I've stated was the best of what I've got so far. Melatonin is good for short burst like if I go on vacation for a week I'll take a lot to get accustomed but after about a week your body can adapt to the higher level of melatonin so it's kind of moot
G2Ready
Member
Yeah I've heard that about the melatonin getting a tolerance built up.... Last night was first night of ZMA and I slept all the way to the buzzer.... Really felt like I needed more than 8 hours, weird it did me that good on night one cuz vitamin store guy said give it a few days--- insomnia must be a pain in the ass... Cuz i love me some sleep and naps
just on cycle seems like I'm go go go.... Better than fatigued and sleepy all the time 4-sure
just on cycle seems like I'm go go go.... Better than fatigued and sleepy all the time 4-sure
Eh it's not something I would drink for the taste no... it's not horrible but not my favorite either. I just add to some water and slug it down real quick. I'm already drinking my least favorite shake of the day, casein whey mix, so I'm basically trying to just get it all down so I can go back to sipping my tasty bcaas on ice which are the shit.
I dont take it every night but it's always been effective for me. Really great product as far as I'm concerned. I've enjoyed several of that supp company's products.
The best product I've ever taken for sleep is still a nice indica strain... Shame it's not an option for everyone.
JJ408G
Member
I'll take a couple hits of sum trees and watch a boring movie that helps me
guyzcool
Member
Melatonin works great. 5mg should do the trick. You'll be out in half an hour. And you'll get at least 7 hours. It gives me a lot better restful sleep when I take it.
G2Ready
Member
Yeah I got some melatonin, but haven't popped the top----) that ZMA has been working beautifully.... They sure as hell wasn't joking about vivid dreams... But I'm taking that as entering rem deep sleep......
Trees sound wonderful, but I'm not hitting trees until I retire.... Trees bog my mind, and fuck with my modivation...
Trees sound wonderful, but I'm not hitting trees until I retire.... Trees bog my mind, and fuck with my modivation...
G2Ready
Member
Got this from another forum.... Haven't done additional research... But thought this was interesting
Credit to nimrod25
For all u guys obsessed with Gyno!! Check This Out!
You may significantly be able to reduce the chances of getting gynecomastia, "bitch's tits," with a simple, inexpensive, legal supplementation—zinc. Here's the evidence.
First some background.
BALCO Laboratories of Burlingame, California, has done what is called multi-element analysis, a measurement of the levels in parts per million of between 20 and 30 different trace minerals and toxic metals, on more than 200,000 people. The procedure uses blood and urine samples. The blood samples used consist primarily of red blood cells and plasma. Many of the people analyzed are elite, professional and Olympic athletes such as the Seattle Supersonics, the Denver Broncos, and the Miami Dolphins, and at least 20 to 25 professional bodybuilders. For a technological description of the method and early applications to sports, watch this area of musclephotos.com. This description will soon be posted.
From these analyses, BALCO Labs, Inc., has established that somewhere between 70 and 80% of the athletes tested are either "low" or "deficient" in zinc. For instance, among professional football players, the percentage is approximately 73%. Among professional bodybuilders, a depletion or deficiency of zinc also seems prevalent.
Bill Roberts, in his article, "The History and Present Status of the Drug Development of Anabolic/Androgenic Steroids" in the June 1998 issue of Mesomorphosis (Volume 1, Number 1), comes tantalizingly close to the explanation. However, partly because of his background as a chemist rather than a biologist, and partly because his article places more of an emphasis on history than on explanations, he misses it. Perhaps he includes it elsewhere in his thesis or other writings.
The answer may lie in an older article by Ae-Son Om and Kyung-Won Chung, published in the April 1996 Journal of Nutrition, 126[4]: 842-848. The article is entitled "Dietary Zinc Deficiency Alters 5 Alpha-Reduction and Aromatization of Testosterone and Androgen and Estrogen in Rat Liver." Both researchers are from the Department of Anatomical Sciences in the University of Oklahoma College of Medicine. They had done a previous study in 1990 on why alcoholics and coke addicts develop feminine characteristics. In this study, they had found that the hepatic aromatization of androgens to estrogens is enhanced by alcohol ingestion and cocaine administration. Both alcohol and cocaine also lower an individual's zinc levels, sometimes beyond depletion into actual deficiency. In their new work they sought an anatomical/biological explanation of why this occurred.
In their new work, they used three populations of rats. (I can hear the critics' knee-jerk response: "But-rats-aren't-the-same-as-human-beings." Let me just note that rats have been used in biological investigations for years because a great many of their biological characteristics resemble those humans. It is also a lot easier to kill a rat for a microscopic anatomical investigation than it is to kill a bodybuilder. While one must be very cautious about extrapolating explanations from research with rats, sometimes this type of research can explain much that happens to people.)
The three populations of rats included a group fed a zinc-deficient diet, a group fed a controlled but adequate diet of zinc, and a freely fed group.
After keeping these populations on these diets for a long enough time to affect their plasma zinc levels, the scientists measured their testosterone and estrogen levels and measured and counted their androgen and estrogen receptor sites.
Among the zinc deficient rats, they found the androgen receptor sites had become reduced in number and size by 40%. At the same time, the estrogen receptor sites increased by 60%. The liver's conversion of testosterone to estrogen was significantly greater in the rats on the zinc deficient diet. The same rats that had the decrease in androgen receptor sites showed significantly reduced amounts of lutinizing hormone and testosterone concentrations.
Having a zinc-deficient diet evidently increased the aromatization of testosterone and the formation of estradiol, the primary estrogen hormone.
One of the same researchers, Chung An, had also published research in Life Science, January 27, 1986, 38 [4]: 351-356, entitled "Androgen Receptors in the Ventral Prostate Gland of Zinc Deficient Rats." In this reasearch study,. there were only two groups of rats—those fed a zinc deficient diet for three months and those fed a controlled (zinc adequate) diet for the same amount of time. Analysis of the data revealed that the number of androgen binding sites of the zinc deficient rats' prostate was 31 fmol/mg cytosal protein. This was significantly lower than the 84 fmol/mg protein of the controls.
Figure it out. Divide 31 by 84 and you have a 63% reduction in the number of androgen binding sites.
If some of the testosterone (androgen) has nowhere to go—nowhere to bind—it will continue to circulate in the blood, finally being aromatized in the liver and producing estrogen. Bitch's tits, here you come!
The lesson is very clear. If you are taking steroids, you probably should be taking supplemental zinc in order to reduce your chance of developing gynecomastia ("bitch's tits). Observe this warning: a multi-vitamin/multi-mineral tablet or two will not work. For reasons which will be explained later on this site, and which have been published numerous times in numerous places, these supplements are ineffective as far as zinc is concerned.
A few additional comments. At least one of the "experts" in the newsgroup misc.fitness.weights has stated that all this material about zinc is "already known" and that gynecomastia "is not a serious problem in bodybuilding."
Judge for yourself. When suggesting dosages of steroids to you, have these "experts" advised you to take zinc supplements? If they haven't, then this would suggest that they really don't know about the importance of using zinc in this situation. Interesting observation: Not a single professional bodybuilder out of the more than 20 we have recently tested and talked with has known of the connection between zinc deficiency and gynecomastia. If this information is so well known, you'd think the people who professionally need it the most would know it, wouldn't you?
As to gynecomastia not being a serious problem., all we can say is that professional bodybuilders take the problem very seriously indeed. We've questioned them about this. We know.
Another of the "gurus" advocated preventing gynecomastia by taking nolvadex, an "estrogen blocker" or estrogen receptor antagonist. Considering that this lowers ones HDL ("good") cholesterol levels, causes serious liver damage, and blocks the production of IGF-1 and growth hormone by at least 35%, that doesn't sound like very good advice to us. Better advice would be to use testolactone (the brand name is Teslac), an aromatase inhibitor that stops the effects of aromatase, is very safe and effective to use, according to physicians, but is difficult to get. and very expensive. Testolactone is said not only to prevent gynecomastia, but also to help clear it up once the condition has developed.
The best advice of all, of course, is not to use steroids. When we say this, it doesn't represent some obligatory bow in the direction of political and legal correctness. We really believe it. But since a lot of you out there are going to use steroids, anyway, you might as well have good information to make your indulgence as safe and healthy as possible.
Watch for an additional article soon to be posted explaining what to look for in trace mineral supplements. Armed with this information, you'll be able to walk into your local health food store and buy something that will actually do you some good instead of just lulling you into a false complacency.
Credit to nimrod25
For all u guys obsessed with Gyno!! Check This Out!
You may significantly be able to reduce the chances of getting gynecomastia, "bitch's tits," with a simple, inexpensive, legal supplementation—zinc. Here's the evidence.
First some background.
BALCO Laboratories of Burlingame, California, has done what is called multi-element analysis, a measurement of the levels in parts per million of between 20 and 30 different trace minerals and toxic metals, on more than 200,000 people. The procedure uses blood and urine samples. The blood samples used consist primarily of red blood cells and plasma. Many of the people analyzed are elite, professional and Olympic athletes such as the Seattle Supersonics, the Denver Broncos, and the Miami Dolphins, and at least 20 to 25 professional bodybuilders. For a technological description of the method and early applications to sports, watch this area of musclephotos.com. This description will soon be posted.
From these analyses, BALCO Labs, Inc., has established that somewhere between 70 and 80% of the athletes tested are either "low" or "deficient" in zinc. For instance, among professional football players, the percentage is approximately 73%. Among professional bodybuilders, a depletion or deficiency of zinc also seems prevalent.
Bill Roberts, in his article, "The History and Present Status of the Drug Development of Anabolic/Androgenic Steroids" in the June 1998 issue of Mesomorphosis (Volume 1, Number 1), comes tantalizingly close to the explanation. However, partly because of his background as a chemist rather than a biologist, and partly because his article places more of an emphasis on history than on explanations, he misses it. Perhaps he includes it elsewhere in his thesis or other writings.
The answer may lie in an older article by Ae-Son Om and Kyung-Won Chung, published in the April 1996 Journal of Nutrition, 126[4]: 842-848. The article is entitled "Dietary Zinc Deficiency Alters 5 Alpha-Reduction and Aromatization of Testosterone and Androgen and Estrogen in Rat Liver." Both researchers are from the Department of Anatomical Sciences in the University of Oklahoma College of Medicine. They had done a previous study in 1990 on why alcoholics and coke addicts develop feminine characteristics. In this study, they had found that the hepatic aromatization of androgens to estrogens is enhanced by alcohol ingestion and cocaine administration. Both alcohol and cocaine also lower an individual's zinc levels, sometimes beyond depletion into actual deficiency. In their new work they sought an anatomical/biological explanation of why this occurred.
In their new work, they used three populations of rats. (I can hear the critics' knee-jerk response: "But-rats-aren't-the-same-as-human-beings." Let me just note that rats have been used in biological investigations for years because a great many of their biological characteristics resemble those humans. It is also a lot easier to kill a rat for a microscopic anatomical investigation than it is to kill a bodybuilder. While one must be very cautious about extrapolating explanations from research with rats, sometimes this type of research can explain much that happens to people.)
The three populations of rats included a group fed a zinc-deficient diet, a group fed a controlled but adequate diet of zinc, and a freely fed group.
After keeping these populations on these diets for a long enough time to affect their plasma zinc levels, the scientists measured their testosterone and estrogen levels and measured and counted their androgen and estrogen receptor sites.
Among the zinc deficient rats, they found the androgen receptor sites had become reduced in number and size by 40%. At the same time, the estrogen receptor sites increased by 60%. The liver's conversion of testosterone to estrogen was significantly greater in the rats on the zinc deficient diet. The same rats that had the decrease in androgen receptor sites showed significantly reduced amounts of lutinizing hormone and testosterone concentrations.
Having a zinc-deficient diet evidently increased the aromatization of testosterone and the formation of estradiol, the primary estrogen hormone.
One of the same researchers, Chung An, had also published research in Life Science, January 27, 1986, 38 [4]: 351-356, entitled "Androgen Receptors in the Ventral Prostate Gland of Zinc Deficient Rats." In this reasearch study,. there were only two groups of rats—those fed a zinc deficient diet for three months and those fed a controlled (zinc adequate) diet for the same amount of time. Analysis of the data revealed that the number of androgen binding sites of the zinc deficient rats' prostate was 31 fmol/mg cytosal protein. This was significantly lower than the 84 fmol/mg protein of the controls.
Figure it out. Divide 31 by 84 and you have a 63% reduction in the number of androgen binding sites.
If some of the testosterone (androgen) has nowhere to go—nowhere to bind—it will continue to circulate in the blood, finally being aromatized in the liver and producing estrogen. Bitch's tits, here you come!
The lesson is very clear. If you are taking steroids, you probably should be taking supplemental zinc in order to reduce your chance of developing gynecomastia ("bitch's tits). Observe this warning: a multi-vitamin/multi-mineral tablet or two will not work. For reasons which will be explained later on this site, and which have been published numerous times in numerous places, these supplements are ineffective as far as zinc is concerned.
A few additional comments. At least one of the "experts" in the newsgroup misc.fitness.weights has stated that all this material about zinc is "already known" and that gynecomastia "is not a serious problem in bodybuilding."
Judge for yourself. When suggesting dosages of steroids to you, have these "experts" advised you to take zinc supplements? If they haven't, then this would suggest that they really don't know about the importance of using zinc in this situation. Interesting observation: Not a single professional bodybuilder out of the more than 20 we have recently tested and talked with has known of the connection between zinc deficiency and gynecomastia. If this information is so well known, you'd think the people who professionally need it the most would know it, wouldn't you?
As to gynecomastia not being a serious problem., all we can say is that professional bodybuilders take the problem very seriously indeed. We've questioned them about this. We know.
Another of the "gurus" advocated preventing gynecomastia by taking nolvadex, an "estrogen blocker" or estrogen receptor antagonist. Considering that this lowers ones HDL ("good") cholesterol levels, causes serious liver damage, and blocks the production of IGF-1 and growth hormone by at least 35%, that doesn't sound like very good advice to us. Better advice would be to use testolactone (the brand name is Teslac), an aromatase inhibitor that stops the effects of aromatase, is very safe and effective to use, according to physicians, but is difficult to get. and very expensive. Testolactone is said not only to prevent gynecomastia, but also to help clear it up once the condition has developed.
The best advice of all, of course, is not to use steroids. When we say this, it doesn't represent some obligatory bow in the direction of political and legal correctness. We really believe it. But since a lot of you out there are going to use steroids, anyway, you might as well have good information to make your indulgence as safe and healthy as possible.
Watch for an additional article soon to be posted explaining what to look for in trace mineral supplements. Armed with this information, you'll be able to walk into your local health food store and buy something that will actually do you some good instead of just lulling you into a false complacency.
Fitwelder
Member
Melatonin doesn't do shit for me. Weed is for sure my go to sleep aid.
Ukphil
New Member
My first cycle and I wake up at 4am everyday busting for a piss while having a hard on ;needless to say it goes everywhere haha but it's difficult to get back to sleep after wrestling to get it under control and in the pan
(a workout in itself)
(a workout in itself)
RodgerThat
New Member
Do the porcelain proposal, take a knee bud no shame in that game as long as you don't sit your good
Ukphil
New Member
Haha I didn't even think about getting on one knee to be honest I don't can't think at 4am when I dart out of bed running but I will take your advise and look forward to 4am to propose but I won't be putting the "ring on" haha
RodgerThat
New Member
This is my every night while on cycle and for my post sex piss on cycle cause tren and cialis are potent together. Works great man although had a girl see me do it cause I didn't close the door and her response was hilarious so maybe shut the door
