Yet another loss of libido, impaired memory, and stress intolerance.

[1cc]

I would like to know if low prolactin always rule out low dopamine ?

According to the tests in braverman's book Im low in dopamine, but all my 3 tests of prolactin came back low-normal.

Low prolactin would imply high dopamine.

"Dopamine is also a neurohormone released by the hypothalamus. Its main function as a hormone is to inhibit the release of prolactin from the anterior lobe of the pituitary."

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dopamine"]Dopamine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/Fileopamine2.svg" class="image"><img alt="" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6c/Dopamine2.svg/200px-Dopamine2.svg.png"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/6/6c/Dopamine2.svg/200px-Dopamine2.svg.png[/ame]

 

[Dopamineloveaffair]

Again, the diagnosis made by Dr. Eric Braverman was : Dysthymia and ADHD (the ADHD here being caused by the dysthymia based anxiety, at least that's what I was told).

I was told by another M.D. locally, that dysthymia is not supposed to affect sex drive that radically.

My libido gets better when I eat eggs, or Potassium supplements, or theanine, or zinc, or selenium, B6 and grape seed extracts.

I was surprised to find that dandelion root has boosted it too, and colostrum does just the same.

I have some idea why the above substances help, however I'd like to really pinpoint what is wrong.

I suspect the high progesterone might be tied to the low libido as well as total T, the low DHT for sure. Not being an M.D. myself it's hard to put my finger on what is wrong, although what first comes to mind is low testosterone. Further the TSH is suspicious of low thyroid functions.

The dysthymia diagnosis, I'm afraid is barely scratching the surface, as dysthymia is not to me a clear diagnosis, cause the real question is : Where does the dysthymia come from ? Low T, Low thyroid etc...

Thank you
Marc

The reason potassium, selenium, zinc, and b6 may have improved your libido is due to them most likely improving your adrenal and thyroid status. Even though your blood level of potassium is "normal" your tissue level may be deficient. Your body maintains blood homeostasis of the electrolytes(calcium, magnesium, sodium, potassium) at all costs to the detrement of the tissues.

People with weak adrenals and thyroid have functionally low sodium and potassium levels with high calcium and magnesium levels. High calcium levels precipitated in the tissues tend to block the action of T3, whereas high potassium increases their action. So two people with the same T3 value may have different symptoms due to their respective calcium and potassium tissue levels. It's not so much the exact values of calcium and potassium but the ratio between the two since they have opposite effects on thyroid hormone. Eating foods rich in potassium like veges and fruits will help improve your tissue potassium level.

The adrenals are more dictated by the sodium/magnesium ratio in the tissues. Too much magnesium with too little sodium can impair cortisol function. Adding salt to your diet will greatly improve your fatigue, libido, and blood pressure among other things.

It's also important to supplement with vitamins and minerals which indirectly effect the calcium/potassium ratio and sodium/magnesium ratio as well like selenium, manganese, zinc, iodine, chromium, B5, B12, niacinamide, and vitamin C. Eating lower fat foods is also important since fat improves calcium, magnesium, and copper absorbtion which is detrimental to hypothyroid and hypoadrenal conditions.

The sodium/potassium ratio can tell you whether your thyroid is dominant over your adrenals or vice/versa. This ratio has the most to do with your general overall energy and mood. A low sodium/potassium ratio dictates a dominant thyroid whereas a high ratio dictates dominant adrenals. This has also been refered to as sympathetic/parasympathetic activity via the autonomic nervous system. If you need more adrenal support calcium, sodium, iron, B1, vitamin E, and biotin can help. If you need less adrenal support in ratio to the thyroid, zinc, magnesium, potassium, vitamin A, folic acid, niacin, B2, and B6 can help.

I don't think nutrition is a cure all for hypofunction of the thyroid, adrenals, and gonads. It definitely has it's limits. I think in some cases it may help though and allow your body to be more responsive to current medications or allow for a more thorough recovery over the long term.

Hopefully that wasn't too confusing.

 

[chip douglas]

I just come back from the medical clinic where I was at long last given test results, and this time with the reference ranges. One of the test result doesn't look that good at all to me : Prolactin !


TSH : 2.39 Euthyr: 0.27-5.0 mUI/L
Hypothyr: > 5.00
Hyperthyr: <0.01


Prolactin : 16 (0-18) ug/L <----how come the endo as well as my primary care practitioner said all was fine ?? Gee, 16 out of range with a max value of 18 is in my opinion not to be dismissed as fine. This isn't good news to me at all.


Cortisol (8 hours--time of blood draw 8:45 am) 679 (160-700) nmol/L

Cortisol (16 hours--time of blood draw 3:30 PM) 186 (50-500) nmol/L


Calcium 2.48 (2.15-2.65) mmol/L


Calcitonin : 6.0 (0.0-9.0) ng/L


Urinary cortisol (24 hours--volume 1 150 mL) : 87 55-300 nmol/d


All of the above tests were performed on May 18 of this year.


I was beginning to think I could blame my problems on adrenal fatigue, now I'm not so sure I can. Something else seems to be the matter. Dr. Braverman's BEAM indicated high Dopamine, but so far as i can see, my dopamine is far from being high, at least if PRL is a reliable indicator of dopamine status.

What do you think 1cc ?

Thanks heaps 1cc and all.

 

[chip douglas]

Thanks for chiming in Dopamineloveaffair--nope that wasn't too confusing, still I went over it thrice to make sure I grasped it fine

I do my best to keep my smile on, despite the latest elevated Prolactin labs.

Best

 

[1cc]

Prolactin : 16 (0-18) ug/L <----how come the endo as well as my primary care practitioner said all was fine ?? Gee, 16 out of range with a max value of 18 is in my opinion not to be dismissed as fine. This isn't good news to me at all.

The prolactin lab from Pathmedical is also completely different to this one from your primary doctor. Those labs from pathmedical are completely unreliable.

Urinary cortisol (24 hours--volume 1 150 mL) : 87 55-300 nmol/d

This is on the lower side of normal, which indicates it needs improvement. This is the 24 hour Urinary FREE cortisol, right?

I was beginning to think I could blame my problems on adrenal fatigue, now I'm not so sure I can.

Well, your urinary FREE cortisol is on the lower side of normal, which may be what is causing your problem. You also feel better when using Siberian Ginseng, which stimulates cortisol. So together with your symptoms, and Dr. Wilsons questionnaire, and your urinary cortisol lab, it looks like you do have Adrenal Fatigue. At some point you can start to treat the Adrenals and see if it makes you feel better. You should know within a few days if it is making a difference or not.

Something else seems to be the matter. Dr. Braverman's BEAM indicated high Dopamine, but so far as i can see, my dopamine is far from being high, at least if PRL is a reliable indicator of dopamine status.

So far all the labs done by them have turned out to be the opposite of what your local doctors labs are. You mentioned that they actually even had to redo the labs because of them somehow getting mishandled. I dont have much confidence in the stuff done by them.

Be sure to get DHT and Estradiol done again when you do your thyroid labs.

 

[chip douglas]

The prolactin lab from Pathmedical is also completely different to this one from your primary doctor. Those labs from pathmedical are completely unreliable.



This is on the lower side of normal, which indicates it needs improvement. This is the 24 hour Urinary FREE cortisol, right?



Well, your urinary FREE cortisol is on the lower side of normal, which may be what is causing your problem. You also feel better when using Siberian Ginseng, which stimulates cortisol. So together with your symptoms, and Dr. Wilsons questionnaire, and your urinary cortisol lab, it looks like you do have Adrenal Fatigue. At some point you can start to treat the Adrenals and see if it makes you feel better. You should know within a few days if it is making a difference or not.



So far all the labs done by them have turned out to be the opposite of what your local doctors labs are. You mentioned that they actually even had to redo the labs because of them somehow getting mishandled. I dont have much confidence in the stuff done by them.

Be sure to get DHT and Estradiol done again when you do your thyroid labs.

I now totally agree with you on your above statement. Labs done over at Pathmedical were an absolute waste of my money. it's infuriating, but I've learned quite a life lesson out of it. Would you be concerned about the 16 value obtained on the PRL lab, given it's got a max value range of 18 ? Could the adrenal fatigue somehow explain what seems to me like high Prolactin ? I fret over this lab value to some extent.


That's right--on the printout I was given from the clinic, it says :

Duration : 24 hours
Volume : 1 150 mL

I also remember to have seen *free cortisol* checked on the labs to be done sheet/script given to me by the endo.


It looks like it, cause all of those times I had theanine, and other soothing to the SNS substances, my condition improved within a very short period of time, that is, couple of days.. However I stopped using them because I first wanted to find out the root of my symptoms instead of patching up the symptoms with supplements. Now things seem to be shaping up, and that is good news.

Like I said above, I now totally agree with you. At first I wasn't too certain labs performed there were that unreliable--probably I was in denial because of the huge amount of money spent there, I somehow tried to convince myself some of the labs were accurate, but now I clearly realize none or few very few were, so I cannot rely on the results gotten there. I'll now only rely on my latest locally performed labs.


I'll see my treating doc, and ask for those too. Good thing I'd to wait to have the FT4/FT3 blood drawn. I'll now have all of them done at once.

Thanks heaps 1cc !!!!

 

[chip douglas]

1cc : my replies to your last post are arranged in chronologial order, but I'll have to learn how to post the way you do, as it is way more readable.

Best

 

[chip douglas]

The prolactin lab from Pathmedical is also completely different to this one from your primary doctor. Those labs from pathmedical are completely unreliable.

I now totally agree with you on your above statement. Labs done over at Pathmedical were an absolute waste of my money. it's infuriating, but I've learned quite a life lesson out of it. Would you be concerned about the 16 value obtained on the PRL lab, given it's got a max value range of 18 ? Could the adrenal fatigue somehow explain what seems to me like high Prolactin ? I fret over this lab value to some extent.

This is on the lower side of normal, which indicates it needs improvement. This is the 24 hour Urinary FREE cortisol, right?

That's right--on the printout I was given from the clinic, it says :

Duration : 24 hours
Volume : 1 150 mL

I also remember to have seen *free cortisol* checked on the labs to be done sheet/script given to me by the endo.

Well, your urinary FREE cortisol is on the lower side of normal, which may be what is causing your problem. You also feel better when using Siberian Ginseng, which stimulates cortisol. So together with your symptoms, and Dr. Wilsons questionnaire, and your urinary cortisol lab, it looks like you do have Adrenal Fatigue. At some point you can start to treat the Adrenals and see if it makes you feel better. You should know within a few days if it is making a difference or not.

It looks like it, cause all of those times I had theanine, and other soothing to the SNS substances, my condition improved within a very short period of time, that is, couple of days.. However I stopped using them because I first wanted to find out the root of my symptoms instead of patching up the symptoms with supplements. Now things seem to be shaping up, and that is good news.

So far all the labs done by them have turned out to be the opposite of what your local doctors labs are. You mentioned that they actually even had to redo the labs because of them somehow getting mishandled. I dont have much confidence in the stuff done by them.

Like I said above, I now totally agree with you. At first I wasn't too certain labs performed there were that unreliable--probably I was in denial because of the huge amount of money spent there, I somehow tried to convince myself some of the labs were accurate, but now I clearly realize none or few very few were, so I cannot rely on the results gotten there. I'll now only rely on my latest locally performed labs.

Be sure to get DHT and Estradiol done again when you do your thyroid labs.

I'll see my treating doc, and ask for those too. Good thing I'd to wait to have the FT4/FT3 blood drawn. I'll now have all of them done at once.

 

[chip douglas]

My last post is the edited and straightened up version of one just a little above--since it's now more readable now, would any moderator please delete the original messy one ?

Thanks

 

[chip douglas]

Also, I'd like to know why blood cortisol isn't reliable as opposed to urinary ?

Thanks

 

[1cc]

Read Chapter 11 - "Adrenal Fatigue" - James Wilson

 

[chip douglas]

Will do--I haven't had much time to flip through the book yet.

Would you be concerned about my prolactin value ?

Best

 

[1cc]

Would you be concerned about my prolactin value ?

It's still within the normal range, although it's not optimal. It would definitely play a big part in your low libido.

BTW, you should not eat or have sex for at least a few hours before doing a prolactin test, because this would elevate prolactin. What were the circumstances when you did this test?

https://thinksteroids.com/community/posts/418166

 

[chip douglas]

BTW, you should not eat or have sex for at least a few hours before doing a prolactin test, because this would elevate prolactin. What were the circumstances when you did this test?

You're raising a very important point here, one about which I'm neither proud of, nor ashamed. I have this sexual compulsion to, well, spank the monkey a lot, although I've been with the same girl for 10 years. I know prolactin increases directly after one orgasm, contributing to the refractory period.

What sort of an implication would this have on PRL for anyone like me who jerks off about twice a day day in day out ? It'd likely contribute to keeping one's PRL not optimal. Believe me, this is not something I'm fond of saying, but hey, I prefered to be honest here.

The morning of the blood draw, I had been on an empty stomach for 10-12 hours. With regards to sex, I can't seem to remember. One thing's for sure, the morning of the blood draw, I didn't have any form of sexual activity whatsoever. The night before that there's a 99% of a chance I did though.


Could too much sex contribute to low libido ?

Could too much sex predispose one to adrenal fatigue ? I doubt it, as sex acts as a stress buster.

Thanks

 

[shugga]

like me who jerks off about twice a day day in day out ?

My first post, but DAMN! I couldn't do that no matter how hard I tried. I could have done that when I was 15, but now that I am 30 there is just no way. I'm not on any replacement therapy, yet, but DAMN. How old are you?
Sorry for the hijack.

 

[1cc]

What sort of an implication would this have on PRL for anyone like me who jerks off about twice a day day in day out ? It'd likely contribute to keeping one's PRL not optimal.

Like the post by Swale says, its important to refrain from sexual activity for a few hours before doing labs. I would suggest no sexual activity for the day before labs, just to be sure.

The morning of the blood draw, I had been on an empty stomach for 10-12 hours. With regards to sex, I can't seem to remember. One thing's for sure, the morning of the blood draw, I didn't have any form of sexual activity whatsoever. The night before that there's a 99% of a chance I did though.

Since you need to be sure that you actually do or do not have elevated prolactin, I would suggest that you redo prolactin.

Could too much sex contribute to low libido ?

Yes. When you overdo it, you wont want to do it when your girlfriend comes around. Perhaps you dont have a low libido after all.

Could too much sex predispose one to adrenal fatigue ?

Is the experience stressful?

 

[chip douglas]

Shugga : I'm 34.

1cc : After I posted my last reply it occured to me that maybe you'd think that I don't have a low libido after all. I assure you that my libido is low and most of the time non-existent, though recently I'm doing better libido wise.

I jerk off out of compulsion and habit, and probably also to bust stress, it's a strong habit that I've always had. I remember that back in those teenage years, I'd at times do it 8 times a day outch ! You read right, 8 times/day, HOWEVER not all days of the weeks were the same. But that's just to tell you how strong my sex drive used to be 8 years ago. Of course it wouldn't have been that strong without the aid of supplements--mostly ''traditional chinese medicine'' formulas.

I've just come back from the doctor's office (I'm doing as much toward the medical end as possible during my vacations) and he refused to have my DHT and Estradiol tested. He said I need to meet with a sexologist. He said that all of my hormones are doing fine (those I've posted). He said that I'm trying to uncover some pathological reason for my low sex drive, while it's not where the issues lies. I asked him about the Free Cortisol value, pointing that it is in the lower part of the range and he said that it's where it should be. He told me that in 30 years of medical practice, he's almost never seen any low libido associated with any physiological component, but rather most of the time with something of psychological nature.

it seems many doctors have not caught up with what Dr. James Wilson's preaches.

I still have the script to go have the FT3/FT4 tested though so I'll go this up-coming Monday.

To reply to your question : No the experience isn't stressful--it's rather something I unconsciously use to mitigate stress.


Let me know what you think at this point. My doctor told me that there's no need to worry about PRL excess in my case as I don't have any outward symptoms for it. Plus like I said above he doesn't want to have my DHT and estradiol hormones tested.

Do I have enough telltale signs and symptoms to blame what ills on adrenal fatigue ?

I find it weird to hear my doctor say that he doesn't find anything wrong with my free cortisol results--he said that it's fine, and such a level reflects are normal........I find it all highly confusing, and what's more he'd like me to see a sexologist now. I don't think a sexo would be of any help in my case, despite my doctor saying that such a specialist could shed some new light on my case.....not too sure about that.

He's persuaded that it's my mood that causes my low sex drive.

 

[1cc]

He told me that in 30 years of medical practice, he's almost never seen any low libido associated with any physiological component, but rather most of the time with something of psychological nature.

This is a typical response from a doctor not familiar with physiological reasons. It is possible that he may be correct, but the possible physiological causes need to be ruled out first.

Let me know what you think at this point. My doctor told me that there's no need to worry about PRL excess in my case as I don't have any outward symptoms for it. Plus like I said above he doesn't want to have my DHT and estradiol hormones tested.

Ideally, you need to have a full set of labs done similar to the one done at pathmedical in order for any doctor to do a proper evaluation. Its a pity that the pathmedical labs are unreliable. It would be bad practice to assume that all your problems are psychological without checking for physical issues. Once any physical issues are ruled out, then other avenues can be explored.

You need to find a doctor that is familiar with this subject and prepared to do the necessary labs. I believe that Greyowl made a good recommendation to a doctor near you that is familiar with this subject in the following link. It appears that your insurance may cover this as well, according to Greyowl.
https://thinksteroids.com/community/posts/487134

 

[chip douglas]

I agree with you 1cc that Greyowl has posted a very good link near to where I live, well, that is about an 8 hours drive

But from all of the recent tests I posted, can we not conclude I have adrenal fatigue ? According to James Wilson's book when one's free cortisol is in the 1/3 of the range, it's a good indication of adrenal fatigue.



As far as the Pathmedical, I prefer to not even think about them, for $$ related reason.

BTW, I email the Ontario doctor in the link posted by Greyowl yesterday--it just occured to me.


Can low free and bioavailable T be blamed on adrenal fatigue ?

The doctor this afternoon said that my HPTA is fine btw.

I'm sorry to repeat myself here, this is just not a good day today, please bear with me.

Thank you

 

[1cc]

I agree with you 1cc that Greyowl has posted a very good link near to where I live, well, that is about an 8 hours drive

I thought you mentioned in your response to Greyowl that he was not too far from you.

But from all of the recent tests I posted, can we not conclude I have adrenal fatigue ? According to James Wilson's book when one's free cortisol is in the 1/3 of the range, it's a good indication of adrenal fatigue.

I think I mentioned already that once you had done your thyroid labs, you could try some Adrenal Supplements to increase cortisol and see if you noticed any difference.

Can low free and bioavailable T be blamed on adrenal fatigue ?

Good T levels support the Adrenals. I don't recall yours being very low.