Who's using insulin!?

[bodybuilder805]

Now first and for most I do not condone the use of slin without the guidance of a professional meaning someone who has vast exp with it. I don't think anyone should use slin, the reality is stuff can and will kill if not used properly. It's one thing to read about something and a whole different animal to actually do it. I have used slin similar to your so called silly protocols. I have managed to bring up both my arms and legs. These were my weak points no longer the case. As with any PE it's not going to do much if u don't eat enough of the right types of food. In fact it will make u fat lol

 

[MTN]

How can one measure the effects of "anabolic" vs. "anti-catabolic"? I never used large dosages, but I can promise you it was effective. Must have been highly "anti-catabolic" in my case.

I also know a person who died using it. It's definitely not something to be taken lightly. I'd advise against it.

 

[Dr JIM]

Now first and for most I do not condone the use of slin without the guidance of a professional meaning someone who has vast exp with it. I don't think anyone should use slin, the reality is stuff can and will kill if not used properly. It's one thing to read about something and a whole different animal to actually do it. I have used slin similar to your so called silly protocols. I have managed to bring up both my arms and legs. These were my weak points no longer the case. As with any PE it's not going to do much if u don't eat enough of the right types of food. In fact it will make u fat lol

Yea but as I've already mentioned since your not doing this with INSULIN ALONE tell me how you KNOW the effects are due to slin versus the other anabolic agents you are using?

THAT MATE IS THE difference between the isolated "benefits" of ANY drug on an individual basis, compared to one where the results are evidence based using a appropriately sized and selected study cohort.

Heck I've also heard of some forum folk "benefiting" from as little as 6IU per day. Yet then again, I also know many people believe what they need or want to believe, in spite of evidence to the contrary.

 

[bodybuilder805]

Yea but as I mentioned bc your not doing this with INSULIN ALONE tell me how you KNOW the effects are due to slin versus the other anabolic agents you are using?

THAT MATE IS THE difference between the isolated "benefits" of ANY drug on an individual basis, compared to one that is evidence based using a study cohort.

Heck I've also heard of some forum folk "benefiting" from as little as 6IU per day. Many people believe what they need or want to believe, in spite of evidence to the contrary.

well it's quite simple. I only ran it on arm day and leg day (humalog). My arms and legs caught up to the rest of my physique fairly quickly. Bro I'm a prep coach, I kinda know what I'm doing. I have managed to use slin on a few of my clients as well, I have seen first hand not only on me but on a few others what this stuff can do. Like I said u can read about it yes but to implement it well I hate to repeat myself.

 

[Dr JIM]

That makes absolutely no sense, bc what the heck does "arm and leg day" have to do with the efficacy or influence of the PEDs or HUMALOG your using?

The FACT is bc your NOT using insulin alone your judgement regarding it's effectiveness is inherently flawed. Yet "experience" says otherwise, oh yea how many times have I heard that one.

 

[bodybuilder805]

That makes absolutely no sense, bc what the heck does "arm and leg day" have to do with the efficacy or influence of the PEDs or HUMALOG your using?

This is why I tend to stay away from these forums. I'm obviously wasting my time here. If this intrigues you do some more research on insulin.

 

[Dr JIM]

This is why I tend to stay away from these forums. I'm obviously wasting my time here. If this intrigues you do some more research on insulin.

Try TID it will be more to your liking bc on that forum experience is all that matters and that "cut and paste evidence" has been effectively banned, lol.

See that way folks like yourself can argue over how MUCH "experience" is required to be rated as a qualified moderator, mentor, advisor, member, or some simpleton onlooker, lol!

Incidentally i believe it's telling how you deflected my question about your choosing to exercise a specific body part such as "arm or leg day", imparts specific information regarding the efficacy of insulin as an anabolic agent.

I mean are you now suggesting insulin is more effective and selective in exercised muscles?

 

[MTN]

I've ran it alone. You're saying it didn't work?

Moving on.

 

[Docd187123]

Mechanism of insulin's anabolic effect on muscle: measurements of muscle protein synthesis and breakdown using aminoacyl-tRNA and other surrogate measures.
Chow LS, et al. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2006.
Show full citation
Abstract
Despite being an anabolic hormone in skeletal muscle, insulin's anticatabolic mechanism in humans remains controversial, with contradictory reports showing either stimulation of protein synthesis (PS) or inhibition of protein breakdown (PB) by insulin. Earlier measurements of muscle PS and PB in humans have relied on different surrogate measures of aminoacyl-tRNA and intracellular pools. We report that insulin's effect on muscle protein turnover using aminoacyl-tRNA as the precursor of PS and PB is calculated by mass balance of tracee amino acid (AA). We compared the results calculated from various surrogate measures. To determine the physiological role of insulin on muscle protein metabolism, we infused tracers of leucine and phenylalanine into 18 healthy subjects, and after 3 h, 10 subjects received a 4-h femoral arterial infusion of insulin (0.125 mUxkg(-1)xmin(-1)), while eight subjects continued with saline. Tracer-to-tracee ratios of leucine, phenylalanine, and ketoisocaproate were measured in the arterial and venous plasma, muscle tissue fluid, and AA-tRNA to calculate muscle PB and PS. Insulin infusion, unlike saline, significantly reduced the efflux of leucine and phenylalanine from muscle bed, based on various surrogate measures which agreed with those based on leucyl-tRNA (-28%), indicating a reduction in muscle PB (P < 0.02) without any significant effect on muscle PS. In conclusion, using AA-tRNA as the precursor pool, it is demonstrated that, in healthy humans in the postabsorptive state, insulin does not stimulate muscle protein synthesis and confirmed that insulin achieves muscle protein anabolism by inhibition of muscle protein breakdown.

 

[Dr JIM]

I've ran it alone. You're saying it didn't work?

Moving on.

Im saying the evidence most certainly does NOT support YOUR experience unless used in SUPRA-PHYSIOLOGIC DOSES.

 

[bodybuilder805]

Try TID it will be more to your liking bc on that forum experience is all that matters and that "cut and paste evidence" has been effectively banned, lol.

See that way folks like yourself can argue over how MUCH "experience" is required to be rated as a qualified moderator, mentor, advisor, member, or some simpleton onlooker, lol!

Incidentally i believe it's telling how you deflected my question about your choosing to exercise a specific body part such as "arm or leg day", imparts specific information regarding the efficacy of insulin as an anabolic agent.

I mean are you now suggesting insulin is more effective and selective in exercised muscles?

no thank u I don't have the want or need to run into another member like you. See the beauty of the net is you can hide behind words on a key board. The fact is if u happen to be in my area and wanted to compete you might have found yourself paying me for this type of information but being it as it may, we are having a dick measuring contest now. Let's just say insulin does not work u see we are both happy now

 

[weighted chinup]

ANYONE want to guess how much SLIN must be used to achieve bonafied ANABOLIC efficacy?

I'll take a shot at this one but I'm way out of my depth here. Either way I will end up learning something new though so it's a win for me.

I couldn't really find out how much IU of insulin a normal healthy adult pancreas produces in a day because it seems to depend on a lot of factors, food intake seems to be one that would make a huge difference and since BB'ers are eating more calories / day than the average guy walking around, the amount of insulin produced I suspect is higher.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6993139

In the present study, we have determined prehepatic insulin production in six normal men throughout a day that included three typical 750-cal meals. Total insulin secretion for the 24 h was 45.4 U, secreted as 10.6 U with breakfast, 13.4 U with lunch, and 13.8 U with dinner. The remaining 7.6 U was secreted during the 9 h night at a rate of 0.85 U/h. At least 50% of the newly secreted insulin is known to be extracted by the liver during the initial transhepatic passage, so that total peripheral delivery can be estimated as approximately 22 U/day.
​

3x 750 calorie meals a day in healthy adult men produced 45 IU of insulin in a day. That's only 2250 calories. I would suspect that a BB'er eating 4000-4500 would at least produce double that?

I'm going to guess around 90IU daily would be endogenous production for someone eating that much food and to see a true anabolic effect from insulin alone the athlete would need to inject well over 100IU a day, probably closer to 200IU for a definite anabolic effect.

Am I way off here Jim? I want to know the answer but I figured you wanted someone to take a crack at guessing first, so as the least qualified guy here I felt the need to give my take.

 

[bodybuilder805]

I'm going to guess around 90IU daily would be endogenous production for someone eating that much food and to see a true anabolic effect from insulin alone the athlete would need to inject well over 100IU a day, probably closer to 200IU for a definite anabolic effect.

No way man these dosages could kill you. It is quite evident this Jim guy does not no much about insulin. These dosages are insane. You only need but a fraction of this for growth. This is the problem people want to believe everything they read. Bro from the gym said this, bro from the forum said that. It's all bs all over the forums, you need at least 1g of primo or 10ius of hgh I can go on forever. Don't buy into what the advanced of senior member says, do you really know who's behind those words?

 

[weighted chinup]

No way man these doses could kill you. It is quite evident this Jim guy does not no much about insulin. These dosages are obserd

I think that is the point though friend, I know those dosages are insane but I think he is trying to suggest that the doses needed to achieve a definite anabolic effect are way out of range from what most people are willing to take or are currently taking. Obviously no one should take those dosages but I am just speculating / guessing how much insulin would need to be introduced in a 24h window for a definite anabolic effect. I know for certain Jim is very familiar with the evidence and that is the approach I like to take when it comes to these things.

 

[bodybuilder805]

I think that is the point though friend, I know those dosages are insane but I think he is trying to suggest that the doses needed to achieve a definite anabolic effect are way out of range from what most people are willing to take or are currently taking. Obviously no one should take those dosages but I am just speculating / guessing how much insulin would need to be introduced in a 24h window for a definite anabolic effect. I know for certain Jim is very familiar with the evidence and that is the approach I like to take when it comes to these things.

Yes I know what he is trying to get at and I'm sure he will be back with some intellectual data he has gathered threw his diligent web searching. I have came across many "well respected" members in different forums with this type of profile. I in some way have challenged his status here, which I don't really care for. The thing is I have on myself and other clients implemented insulin in much lower dosages and I have seen first hand, in person what it can do. Like I said before I don't believe just anybody should use slin but to say u need that much is just ludicrous. He does not even know how humalog works. If he did he would not question how I came to the conclusion it's the insulin and not another compound I or my clients are using

 

[weighted chinup]

Yes I know what he is trying to get at and I'm sure he will be back with some intellectual data he has gathered threw his dilating web search. I have came across many "well respected" members in different forums with this type of profile. I in some way have challenged his status here, which I don't really care for. The thing is I have on myself and other clients implemented insulin in much lower dosages and I have seen first hand, in person what it can do. Like I said before I don't believe just anybody should use slin but to say u need that much is just ludicrous. He does not even know how humalog works.

I am certainly not suggesting anyone should take that much, I just want to make that point clear because I don't think anyone should touch such an amount, and even if it did ensure anabolism it will most likely come with serious complications, so take it for what it is - speculation. I am also not doubting your experience with insulin use in high level bodybuilding, I think based on anecdote it is clear that insulin has played some role in the high level physiques you see today.

In most cases I have seen from guys running insulin on the boards, it is hard to determine if the slin was responsible for their gains, or the GH they were running, or the 3g of gear a week, etc. I don't think there is any concrete evidence showing the extent of the role insulin played in the development of an athletes physique and I think in many cases the results guys see are misattributed to the slin, but I'm not dismissing all anecdotal experiences regarding its use.

 

[double-leg]

Im glad this came up cause alot of people seem to want to play with shit with no research. a friend just yesterday showed me pics of how he got last year on hgh,insulin,t3. I fine with a good diet and test, npp.
Reasons cash-exsessive planning is just to much for me. I spend most of my day tweaking my diet.

 

[manafest]

Leave it Alone!!....Just had a long time friend pass because of it

 

[Dr JIM]

I'll take a shot at this one but I'm way out of my depth here. Either way I will end up learning something new though so it's a win for me.

I couldn't really find out how much IU of insulin a normal healthy adult pancreas produces in a day because it seems to depend on a lot of factors, food intake seems to be one that would make a huge difference and since BB'ers are eating more calories / day than the average guy walking around, the amount of insulin produced I suspect is higher.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6993139

In the present study, we have determined prehepatic insulin production in six normal men throughout a day that included three typical 750-cal meals. Total insulin secretion for the 24 h was 45.4 U, secreted as 10.6 U with breakfast, 13.4 U with lunch, and 13.8 U with dinner. The remaining 7.6 U was secreted during the 9 h night at a rate of 0.85 U/h. At least 50% of the newly secreted insulin is known to be extracted by the liver during the initial transhepatic passage, so that total peripheral delivery can be estimated as approximately 22 U/day.
​

3x 750 calorie meals a day in healthy adult men produced 45 IU of insulin in a day. That's only 2250 calories. I would suspect that a BB'er eating 4000-4500 would at least produce double that?

I'm going to guess around 90IU daily would be endogenous production for someone eating that much food and to see a true anabolic effect from insulin alone the athlete would need to inject well over 100IU a day, probably closer to 200IU for a definite anabolic effect.

Am I way off here Jim? I want to know the answer but I figured you wanted someone to take a crack at guessing first, so as the least qualified guy here I felt the need to give my take.

Nope that's on spot about 50 IU per day, less is required if you exercise, more if you don't or are a couch potato enjoying potato chips as a staple part of your diet

 

[Dr JIM]

No way man these dosages could kill you. It is quite evident this Jim guy does not no much about insulin. These dosages are insane. You only need but a fraction of this for growth. This is the problem people want to believe everything they read. Bro from the gym said this, bro from the forum said that. It's all bs all over the forums, you need at least 1g of primo or 10ius of hgh I can go on forever. Don't buy into what the advanced of senior member says, do you really know who's behind those words?

Your comments throughout this thread have exposed your utter ignorance fella.

God forbid if your "instructing" anyone with only your "experience" to rely upon as a proof you know WTF your doing or talking about.