Thoughts on diet sodas?

[Ritchboy]

You might, actually. Of course you do once the "real digestion begins", but technically speaking you might have a cephalic response to it as well. First, because cephalic response is, at least in part, acquired. Second, because there is an enzyme in your saliva, called amylase, basically the same one your pancreas has, albeit it won't have enough time to do much. Regardless, it's said that if you chew and don't swallow things like bread, or starches in general, the amylase should have enough time for you to taste sweet. I can't say I've ever experienced it myself, but it's something you'll find written on every book about digestion. Technicalities anyway.

The main point is, the taste is just a part of the cephalic response. Chewing is actually also, technically, a part of it. Even thinking about food triggers a well-known cephalic response, "mouth watering" as it's known. Hypersalivation expecting to need saliva to handle the bolus is, in its principle, similar to expecting the need for insulin to handle the sugar.

Unfortunately, it can be released in both scenarios. To what degree, that's the question.

Or we would be smart creatures for preparing for the upcoming release of energy into the bloodstream, since hyperglycemia is also potentially dangerous. From an evolutionary standpoint it would make sense that you would associate taste with incoming calories, because, well, in nature that'd always be the case. It's like bracing for an impact, which your body has no reason to suspect won't be coming. Perhaps it makes more sense for the stomach to produce acids during the cephalic phase, rather than insulin being released, but even then one might argue that it's a waste of energy to preemptively prepare to digest food one is yet to ingest.

I do understand your point, it would be more efficient if our body waited until the last moment before sugar went into the bloodstream before releasing any insulin at all. For that matter, however, our body could also be smart enough to understand that once you are 20 Kg overweight it's time to signal a stop in appetite, or that if you keep struggling with that 405 bench press it's probably time to signal an increase in muscle synthesis. Alas, our bodies are not always efficient, and that's why we have fat fucks in the street and plateaus in the gym.

I'm not familiar with Layne Norton's content, but I did watch the latter's videos on the topic. I don't recall him ever addressing this particular concern.

While it would be nice to believe them, we are talking about high-level athletes. And, at least in Greg's case, people that do so much cardio that the impact of a few sodas would be counteracted for sure. On a smaller scale, for the average Joe like me, the impact might be bigger though.

That's kinda why I was asking for anecdotal reports, since science has (to the best of my knowledge) failed to give a definitive answer. It's really easy to fall for the confirmation bias though, and believe only the anecdotes that support what you want the answer to be.

I do have to wonder, though, with what people pay to buy insulin and IGF-1 for doping...if diet sodas really had a significant impact on insulin response, then maybe they should just take a can of coke at each meal during their bulks, and save the money and risk associated with doping with insulin. It would have to go both ways, after all, and it'd have to be as bad for cutting as it'd be beneficial for bulking.

Layne Norton addresses it on his Instagram clips and youtoube videos just search Layne Norton diet sodas a bunch of videos he has talking about sugar/artificial sugar he as well has a PhD on this stuff u should check him out.

 

[Skard]

What do you guys think about diet sodas, like "light coke", "light pepsi", etc.? In other words, those that replace their sugar content with a low-calories artificial sweetener, like aspartame.

I've read quite a bit online, but it seems everyone has (as always, goddamn these fucking scientists that can't figure shit for shit) different opinions.

I'm not overly concerned about the "health hazard" in terms of liver damage, or increased cancer risk. Rather, my main issue is with the claim that these products can cause an insulin response, and therefore hinder the process of fat loss, should that be your goal.

Now, these claims are probably true, but I wonder if they are just "technically true" (that'd be my guess), or diet sodas can in fact have a significant impact on the insulin response. In other words, "technically speaking" a 1% increase in insulin would support the claim of "it raises insulin, so it hinders fat loss!", but it would be quite retarded to consider such a small increase relevant.

For me, personally, I've always found that overconsuming diet sodas (talking of a 1.5/2L bottle a day) can help me curb my hunger significantly, albeit at the "cost" of having to keep consuming them for as long as I need my appetite kept under control. On the other hand, with a bit of willpower I could do without them anyway, but that means suffering the hunger quite a bit more (which wouldn't be too big a problem, if I didn't become an enraged monster after a week or so of calories restriction. Alas, I do).

So, I wonder: as far as you guys know, anecdotally or better yet scientifically, do diet sodas have a relevant (negative) impact on fat loss (via increased insulin secretion, or any other pathway), or not?

My neighbors gifted me a Soda Stream machine.--Makes your own carbonated water. (The CO2 cannisters can be exchanged at Walmart)

You can add literally just a few drops of any kind of fruit juice or squeezings, use a dab of ginger powder with a bit of sweetener for ginger ale drink...the possibilities are endless.

I'm really enjoying this thing. My problem is that I love to add Everclear.

 

[Demondosage]

Diet sprite with ginger is where it's at

 

[CrispyRockClimber]

My wife crushes Stevia Sodas about 3 a day. I try to get her to cut back on them but bitches act like children when you take something away from them.

 

[S317]

You gain fat because of excess calories. People have far too much fear of the insulin boogeyman. Insulin shuttles nutrients. Guys have lost fat and got peeled on low fat/high carb, moderate fat/carb, keto, carnivore, Mediterranean, etc. they’ve also gotten fat on all of the above. When your body is starving it’s going to use macros not store them. Unless you’re getting stage ready just watch your calories and you or anybody else can pretty damn lean and look better 95% of the guys on the beach. You know what cause insulin resistance? Getting fat or going low carb like keto. Honestly I always liked cutting fats. Your body can store fats easier than carbs any way. So just don’t stress and keep protein up and calories low. Drink your diet sodas and thank me when your diet was much easier and not as restrictive.

 

[MindlessWork]

You gain fat because of excess calories. People have far too much fear of the insulin boogeyman. Insulin shuttles nutrients. Guys have lost fat and got peeled on low fat/high carb, moderate fat/carb, keto, carnivore, Mediterranean, etc. they’ve also gotten fat on all of the above. When your body is starving it’s going to use macros not store them. Unless you’re getting stage ready just watch your calories and you or anybody else can pretty damn lean and look better 95% of the guys on the beach. You know what cause insulin resistance? Getting fat or going low carb like keto. Honestly I always liked cutting fats. Your body can store fats easier than carbs any way. So just don’t stress and keep protein up and calories low. Drink your diet sodas and thank me when your diet was much easier and not as restrictive.

Good point, but there are people who are more predisposed to getting fat and I am one of those thus I worry about keeping the fat off.

 

[S317]

Good point, but there are people who are more predisposed to getting fat and I am one of those thus I worry about keeping the fat off.

So eat less. It’s pretty simple. Eat too much get fat. If you get fat it’s not the Diet Coke it’s the excess calories from the shit you shoveled into your mouth

 

[NorthMich]

It’s not quite that simple.

packaging materials, coatings in cans and paper, household chemicals, medications all have the potential to start hijacking your endocrine system.

 

[S317]

It’s not quite that simple.

packaging materials, coatings in cans and paper, household chemicals, medications all have the potential to start hijacking your endocrine system.

It’s not all that complicated. It’s not even up for debate. You lose weight if you eat less than you burn. You can get into all the nuances and other questionable things all you want but none of it matters. People use any excuse they can but it’s only excuses. Sure there might be some exceptions but that’s all they are is exceptions. You had walking skeletons in the Holocaust who were exposed to far worse chemicals and everything than we are everyday. You’re telling me their hormones weren’t wrecked or whatever else excuse some fat slob has as to why they just can’t lose that 50lbs?
Your body can’t create something from nothing. The body wants to survive. It’s not going to gain fat magically out thin air. Fat is stored calories. It needs calories as fuel to survive. It’s literally impossible to get fat when you burn more than you eat. Some can eat more than others but that’s not the point. If you can’t lose weight then eat less and continue to lower your intake until you lose weight. If you think a diet soda is the problem then your issue is denial not zero calorie sweeteners

 

[NorthMich]

Lol. You have everything figured out for yourself. That’s super.

for anyone else- might be worth a check into hormone mimicry

 

[MindlessWork]

My wife crushes Stevia Sodas about 3 a day. I try to get her to cut back on them but bitches act like children when you take something away from them.

I like those as well, not to mention using Whole Earth stevia in my morning coffee.

 

[S317]

Lol. You have everything figured out for yourself. That’s super.

for anyone else- might be worth a check into hormone mimicry

I’m still unaware of how that changes the law of thermodynamics.

 

[NorthMich]

It doesn’t. Lol. It means your body will tighten control of fat storage and metabolism.

many erroneously think these 400 pound humans are the result of sloth and avarice. Poor decisions. Not entirely so. Their endocrine systems have been hijacked. Now they will store every available calorie and not slow it to be burned, even to the point of lowering the metabolism to keep the fat

 

[S317]

It doesn’t. Lol. It means your body will tighten control of fat storage and metabolism.

many erroneously think these 400 pound humans are the result of sloth and avarice. Poor decisions. Not entirely so. Their endocrine systems have been hijacked. Now they will store every available calorie and not slow it to be burned, even to the point of lowering the metabolism to keep the fat

Absolutely there are exceptions to most things but I’d wager 99 percent of these 400lb mammoths are just lazy and eat too much. Some people have to suffer to lose weight others not so much. But ultimately your body burns calories in order for you to not die. A lot of these problems can be helped by getting to a healthier fat percentage

 

[NorthMich]

Absolutely there are exceptions to most things but I’d wager 99 percent of these 400lb mammoths are just lazy and eat too much.

Not so at all. Some googling would help you with this concept, but it doesn’t affect you and you’ve got a working model of things that works for you so that’s your position.

anyone that cares to can easily research this.

 

[JoeBlob12]

Not so at all. Some googling would help you with this concept, but it doesn’t affect you and you’ve got a working model of things that works for you so that’s your position.

anyone that cares to can easily research this.

Well it’s certainly not diet soda that’s causing it. I agree with @S317... now that keto is so prevalent everyone thinks that insulin is the big secret that makes you fat. Most of the people that worry about sweeteners and diet sodas are above 15%. Those people are always the experts.. Unless you’re in the last few weeks before a contest and need that 1% difference, it’s irrelevant. You’re not fat because you drink Diet Coke.. it’s because you eat like shit.

With that being said.. it can cause digestive issues so be aware and drink them moderately.

Sucralose is said to raise insulin levels 20%. Who fucking cares though! Worry about your overall deficit for the day.

 

[BalrogRebel]

It’s literally impossible to get fat when you burn more than you eat.

For the most part, I agree with almost everything you said. However, as the other guy pointed out, it is more complicated than that.

While you can't bypass the "laws of thermodynamics", we are not machines set in stone that will always do the same thing. So, for example, you can have the problem of a lowered basal metabolism if your "hormones" are screwed up. This means you will feel less energy in your body, and you will be able to access less energy. So for example you might be more inclined to sleep, you will fatigue sooner in the gym, you won't be able to output the same kind of effort. Or, worst case scenario, it will start breaking down the tissues that consume "unnecessary" energy, namely your muscle. This will have negative consequences not only on your everyday relations, work, etc., but also on your workouts, thus ultimately causing you to burn less calories, and that's where you apparently "cheat" physics.

You don't really cheat physics per se, but unfortunately your basal metabolism is not set in stone, it's not a fixed value, and can be changed significantly in some people -- sometimes for the better, sometimes for worse. Your body can be one hell of a bitch at ramping it up and down. And while it would theoretically possible for your willpower to always override whatever your body is trying to do to preserve itself (for example, forcing yourself to do low-intensity cardio no matter how bad and tired you feel), it's not feasible for most people to do so.

Willpower can only take you so far. It's easy to dismiss people as pussies, spoiled brats, seekers of instant-gratification, lazy cunts with no work ethics. And most of the time it would be appropriate...at least in part. There are more exceptions than you seem to estimate, however. Some have harder obstacles on their path to a "good body", others give up much more easily.

That's why some dietary approaches work, but others don't, despite the core principle of "calories in vs calories out" being very simple. The problematic part, indeed, is actually (in my opinion anyway) the "calories out" bit, more so than the calories in part.

At any rate, it seems the specific question I originally asked is (understandably) far out of the reach of the people here. After all, even pubmed and google couldn't give a definitive answer.

I think I will end up following the route of drinking those diet sodas after all. I'll try my best to avoid it, just in case, and only use them on the bitchiest days of the diet (so, roughly 8 days a week).

Thanks y'all for participating in the discussion.

 

[Ritchboy]

As S317 mentioned stop making excuses why u can't lose fat the only reason u can't lose fat/weight is because ur eating more than u need too diet sodas low calories or food in general are100% not the problem...the problems is u being a fat fuck eating more calories than ur nody needs...so don't come here with the shittie excuse why u cant lose weight and blaming foods/drinks.....be in a calorie deficit and 100% u'll lose weight. nobody come out with another excuse.

 

[Ritchboy]

As S317 mentioned stop making excuses why u can't lose fat the only reason u can't lose fat/weight is because ur eating more than u need too diet sodas low calories or food in general are100% not the problem...the problems is u being a fat fuck eating more calories than ur nody needs...so don't come here with the shittie excuse why u cant lose weight and blaming foods/drinks.....be in a calorie deficit and 100% u'll lose weight. nobody come out with another excuse.

If ur metabolism is fucked then body recomp only excuse u can't make why it's hard to lose weight is if u have hypothyroid but even then I'll still be able to lose weight by going in a deficit so at the end theirs no excuses.

 

[Gbro]

Fats gonna fat