Strength training, I’m new. But very curious.

[Type-IIx]

Powerlifting is about perfecting form and technique, so I disagree with that 100%. In fact, I’d venture to say that most people who pursue powerlifting early in their lifting careers end up with better form than those who just lift or bodybuild. …YOLO lifters aside.

I didn’t read the link, honestly. I’ve just trained conjugate for 2+ years, so I have a pretty decent grasp of it. Maybe that’s a bastardized version? Because true conjugate relies on the ability to auto regulate, assess and know your weaknesses, pin point which movements will best bring up those weaknesses, and apply volume to them.

Also, in regards to building work capacity—I’m not sure you’ve seen a true powerlifting program… GPP is essential. Singles, dubs and triples are usually only during 1 block (barring conjugate), and the rest of the macro cycle is sub-max work.

I wholeheartedly know you know what you are doing and that you've been successful, and that PL requires specificity by its nature. But like @NLM36 I think variation for someone with OP's number is important.

To clarify, by means of example, I mean to say that while >5 reps of sagittal plane work at various tempos, for example, is GPP by powerlifting standards, it isn't for any other sport.

Looking at OP's numbers, do you think that the conjugate method is appropriate?

I just think he should have more variation and strengthening of the core/upper/lower back.

But if he likes training for strength, he should fairly quickly move on to a conjugate or specific PL program. And work on technique the entire time.

- Probably unnecessary, but signing this with nothing but respect for you and powerlifters generally

 

[NLM36]

Powerlifting for Mass Hypertrophy Program

I posted the wrong one earlier. Here’s the basic one for beginners.

 

[adamcarpenter]

I'd ditch the 5x5 unless you're heavily bastardizing it... Which is also probably not advisable until you are a little more of an intermediate when it comes to PLing. But, by that time... Linear periodization probably isn't going to be uber useful to you.

I'm going to make the same recommendation I make to most guys that are interested in trying out strength oriented training. Check out the Juggernaut method - I've learned more about strength from their content than anyone/anywhere else. If you try out the original juggernaut method to get your feet wet, you'll get to set PR's pretty frequently via AMRAPs. Also, I fully recommend the juggernaut AI app they put out, especially for beginners.

All that said, another critique I'd make is to determine what your actual working maxes are for SBD. You sound a little vague when you give an idea of where you stand so, figure those out so you really know for sure.

I’m looking for something beyond 5x5, I just read a little about juggernaut and downloaded the app. Do you know what the difference is between their powerlifting vs power building option? I’d like to stick to squat/deadlift/bench/overhead press with a few accessory lifts. I’ve had a lot of success with 5x5.

 

[Eman]

I’m looking for something beyond 5x5, I just read a little about juggernaut and downloaded the app. Do you know what the difference is between their powerlifting vs power building option? I’d like to stick to squat/deadlift/bench/overhead press with a few accessory lifts. I’ve had a lot of success with 5x5.

Go with the powerlifting version. Powerbuilding is overly complicated, IMO. PL will give you what you're looking for, it will always have the big three and you can make OHP either an accessory or use it as a bench variation. Even in a peaking block they'll be including some solid accessory work.

With that said, the PB version will let you choose what % you want to be PL or BB focus. The PB version is insanely hard, or at least it used to be... You had to be very honest with your fatigue ratings or it'll keep loading more volume until it thinks your where you should be with fatigue.

 

[OmL]

I e read the replies and I see that you guys recommend an intermediate program. But when it comes to strength, I am a newb. And I’ll treat myself as such. I like the idea of hitting this 5x5 and then I am really liking the sounds of a Juggernaut program to follow it. I’m thinking strength, strength, hypertrophy in blocks. Focusing on planar opposites (if that’s understandable). I’m also concerned about injury, as I’m taking nothing that promotes collagen synthesis. I might try something small like 10-20mg Anavar on workout days. I’ve done two workouts on the 5x5 and I can already feel the sheer difference in recovery and I’m loving it. I’m not sure why I even cared to deeply about having big biceps. We need big calf muscles tho. Everyone needs calf muscles.

 

[NovaFlex]

I’m very familiar with power lifting and strong man training. In fact I’m very lucky to go to one of the best gyms in America and it’s owned by a strong man/ power lifter. I’m good friends some of the plers there. I see them train constantly and have talked them a lot, also used to study a lot about it years ago.
The link isn’t true conjugate. I’d say it’s more for beginners with everything laid easily and clearly on what to do.
give it a look.
I personally have trained people and unless they want to get into power lifting Id rather teach them to feel the muscle by starting on machines where they require less technique and skill and are prone to injury. They can work on actually squeezing and contracting the muscle as opposed to just moving weight. That’s a different discussion though. As that’s how I was first taught on machines, then dumbbells, then barbells.
if someone came to me with goal of power lifting, strong man, etc I’d introduce them to a guy that does that.

That’s pretty bad ass, man. Then you understand where I’m coming from…I think we both see it from our own perspective training modalities, but I 100% agree with starting slow and learning form over weight. Also, sick fucking physique bro.

I wholeheartedly know you know what you are doing and that you've been successful, and that PL requires specificity by its nature. But like @NLM36 I think variation for someone with OP's number is important.

To clarify, by means of example, I mean to say that while >5 reps of sagittal plane work at various tempos, for example, is GPP by powerlifting standards, it isn't for any other sport.

Looking at OP's numbers, do you think that the conjugate method is appropriate?

I just think he should have more variation and strengthening of the core/upper/lower back.

But if he likes training for strength, he should fairly quickly move on to a conjugate or specific PL program. And work on technique the entire time.

- Probably unnecessary, but signing this with nothing but respect for you and powerlifters generally

Conjugate is probably the last thing he’d wanna be doing, IMO. You’re right that his numbers matter—but so do a lot of other factors—his form, intensity, recoverability, etc. it’s so hard to give blanket advice without at least seeing a log or something, ya know?

and I agree about GPP. @Eman was correct about PL GPP, but I know that he knows it goes much deeper:.. personally, I prefer strongman conditioning, which I feel is some of the best in the world for strength athletes.

Powerlifting for Mass Hypertrophy Program

I posted the wrong one earlier. Here’s the basic one for beginners.

I know this is semantical, but I’d call something like this concurrent training, rather than Conjugate—simply because of why Conjugate entails, this lacks much of.

 

[Worf]

I wholeheartedly know you know what you are doing and that you've been successful, and that PL requires specificity by its nature. But like @NLM36 I think variation for someone with OP's number is important.

To clarify, by means of example, I mean to say that while >5 reps of sagittal plane work at various tempos, for example, is GPP by powerlifting standards, it isn't for any other sport.

Looking at OP's numbers, do you think that the conjugate method is appropriate?

I just think he should have more variation and strengthening of the core/upper/lower back.

But if he likes training for strength, he should fairly quickly move on to a conjugate or specific PL program. And work on technique the entire time.

- Probably unnecessary, but signing this with nothing but respect for you and powerlifters generally

Yes I believe it’s appropriate for him but not because of what his numbers are. I think it’s a great Segway or even a probe into powerlifting for him to test any discover if he like powerlifting or not. He’s accustomed to higher volume workouts based around body parts which he can still do quite a bit of with conjugate. People make too much about all the intricate shit that conjugate has spawned into with accommodating resistance. In its purest form it’s variations on the main movements for max effort upper and lower and comp lifts for speed upper and lower all followed by bodybuilding/hypertrophy/ sports specific exercises.
He can do an upper body pressing variant up to a 1,2,3rm, 5 etc and then follow that with body bodybuilding accessories. Same on lower once a week. Then the two speed days he can do cat with a main lift and bro out after. I think conjugate is a great transition to powerlifting for people who followed bodybuilding principals previously.

 

[Worf]

I e read the replies and I see that you guys recommend an intermediate program. But when it comes to strength, I am a newb. And I’ll treat myself as such. I like the idea of hitting this 5x5 and then I am really liking the sounds of a Juggernaut program to follow it. I’m thinking strength, strength, hypertrophy in blocks. Focusing on planar opposites (if that’s understandable). I’m also concerned about injury, as I’m taking nothing that promotes collagen synthesis. I might try something small like 10-20mg Anavar on workout days. I’ve done two workouts on the 5x5 and I can already feel the sheer difference in recovery and I’m loving it. I’m not sure why I even cared to deeply about having big biceps. We need big calf muscles tho. Everyone needs calf muscles.

No calves , no traps required in powerlifting. Lol

 

[OmL]

No calves , no traps required in powerlifting. Lol

My wife had to get new wellies to fit her calf’s into. And she made fun of mine. I’ve been blasting them with 27 sets per week for three months and they’re growing and they look good. I’ll never give them up

 

[Test_Subject]

I’ve always had the best strength gains running a DUP style program, but it takes a bit of work to set up properly and tailor to your recovery abilities, but it’s well worth it.

5 x 5 as a program is shit, IMO. As a rep scheme it’s perfectly fine, but basing your entire training around it is not optimal. You’re missing out on the beauty of heavy 3s, tempo rep 8s etc. if you tie yourself to it.

 

[Eman]

I’ve always had the best strength gains running a DUP style program, but it takes a bit of work to set up properly and tailor to your recovery abilities, but it’s well worth it.

5 x 5 as a program is shit, IMO. As a rep scheme it’s perfectly fine, but basing your entire training around it is not optimal. You’re missing out on the beauty of heavy 3s, tempo rep 8s etc. if you tie yourself to it.

You know, I read somewhere that the guy that produced that program squats like 400lbs.

 

[NLM36]

You know, I read somewhere that the guy that produced that program squats like 400lbs.

Bill Starr?

 

[NovaFlex]

I’ve always had the best strength gains running a DUP style program, but it takes a bit of work to set up properly and tailor to your recovery abilities, but it’s well worth it.

5 x 5 as a program is shit, IMO. As a rep scheme it’s perfectly fine, but basing your entire training around it is not optimal. You’re missing out on the beauty of heavy 3s, tempo rep 8s etc. if you tie yourself to it.

I like to do 3-6 weeks of working up to a 5x5 on a specific lift. For example, if I get 3x5, then 4, 2 for the 5 sets, I’ll spend however long at that weight to work it up to 5x5…then switch it up. Just did it on bench and liked it.

 

[Eman]

Bill Starr?

No, but he did come up with his own 5x5 version.... I was referring to Mehdi, the "strong lifts" version... Should have been more specific because there are quite a few 5x5's out there. Starr's and Mehdi's both supposedly originated with Reg Park. (Arnold's inspiration for becoming a bodybuilder)

 

[Test_Subject]

You know, I read somewhere that the guy that produced that program squats like 400lbs.

Not exactly a ringing endorsement lol.

 

[adamcarpenter]

I think the beauty of 5x5 is its simplicity for new lifters. I started with no experience and did 5x5, 3x5, then 3x3. After 18 months my squat was 305, deadlift 365, and bench was 270 (all 3x3). Without a trainer or anything, just at home.

I think if it was more complicated I wouldn’t have been able to pay as much attention to things like form, diet, sleep etc.

 

[NLM36]

No, but he did come up with his own 5x5 version.... I was referring to Mehdi, the "strong lifts" version... Should have been more specific because there are quite a few 5x5's out there. Starr's and Mehdi's both supposedly originated with Reg Park. (Arnold's inspiration for becoming a bodybuilder)

Oh that scrawny fucker.

 

[Test_Subject]

I think the beauty of 5x5 is its simplicity for new lifters. I started with no experience and did 5x5, 3x5, then 3x3. After 18 months my squat was 305, deadlift 365, and bench was 270 (all 3x3). Without a trainer or anything, just at home.

I think if it was more complicated I wouldn’t have been able to pay as much attention to things like form, diet, sleep etc.

I can understand that way of looking at it. If you’re completely new it’s a pretty easy program to follow and you can pretty much headbutt the barbell at that point and make gains.

A program that you follow will always be better than one that you don’t.

For an experienced lifter, thought, 5 x 5 is junk.

 

[Brandaddy]

If I was to start over I'd honestly probably just get a coach off the bat if you have the cash. You can usually get a decent one for pretty cheap. Save all of the programming he does for you and make sure to have him check your form regularly. You'll notice all of the little tricks he does when he sets up your training blocks and how he structures a meet prep. Then for your next meet I'd get someone who trains different and have him coach you and see how the different training methods effect you and see what different recommendations he has for cues, etc.

This will probably save you a lot of time banging your head against the wall not knowing if you're doing things right.

 

[OmL]

As a follow up to this; my strength is going up. And the growth I’m getting is a very solid, dense and protruding muscle. My shoulders are growing much better than ever before.
Is this growth solely thanks to the testosterone I’m blasting? Most seem to say I shouldn’t be building much size while strength training.