Owning a home

[malfeasance]

For work we opened my mobility and hoping to get promoted while the housing market is still hot and we’d be moving south. My company pays for everything so we’d clear well over $300k with the sale.

You could just as easily be needing to move when the market is down, like 2008-09.

Unless you have a working crystal ball, this is simply luck on the timing.

For what it is worth, I am seeing the large homebuilders reassessing in 2022, and getting rid of lots instead of building on them. What do they know (or predict)? They don't have a crystal ball, either, but I am guessing they have a lot more experience and information available to them than you and me put together.

 

[JC Grifter]

You could just as easily be needing to move when the market is down, like 2008-09.

Unless you have a working crystal ball, this is simply luck on the timing.

For what it is worth, I am seeing the large homebuilders reassessing in 2022, and getting rid of lots instead of building on them. What do they know (or predict)? They don't have a crystal ball, either, but I am guessing they have a lot more experience and information available to them than you and me put together.

That’s why I said “we hope it’s while the market is still hot” It’s very possible. In that case we would have one thing in our favor. Even though we sold high, we didn’t buy high. That and the company relocation package wouldn’t allow us to be under water to move.

As far as the builders it could have something to do with the current attempt of federal takeover of local zoning. Could be they see the writing on the wall with Black Rock buying up lots creating an artificially high market for when the Federal government does take over local zoning and migrates democrat voters from the cities to the suburbs for “diversity.”

Could be a lot of things. Where we are, we’re being flooded with people trying to flee their current city with very limited inventory. so even with a crash this area shouldn’t be too bad.

 

[MFAAS]

Some people say you should use that money to buy a rental and they've off that income instead and rent your home so you don't have to pay for repairs and shit.

I really don't think it makes that big if a difference. As long as you buy smart and start in your REAL price range determined by you (not what the bank says you can afford) then you'll be fine. I first owned a duplex, rented half of it and lived for cheap. Sold for a ~200k profit 4 years later. Moved to a single family home that needed some work, but irs our dream home. We are making improvements to it DIY style that will add value/force appreciation, not to mention that I think the area will appreciate anyway over time.

Inflation is fucking 7%. My interest rate is only 2.75% over 30 years. Nobody can tell me that isn't a damned good deal. Just by having a mortgage I am making money because I'm beating inflation (very significantly, for now). I am in a pow cost of living area with super low property taxes.

In essence it all comes down to where you live and what kind of property you're buying. There's way too many idiots out there buying new construction houses with all luxury amenities. These "starter homes" start in the "upper $300s." It's bullshit. Then they lease their new, overpriced cars and have all the newest and fanciest shit.

Buying my primary residence has treated me phenomenally well. Plus many people cat get the lifestyle they want by renting. I am a homesteaders, renting is not an option for me.

Just ignore these idiots on YouTube they probably are mostly just trying to justify renting because they can't afford a house because they have A bloated lifestyle.

I do believe though, if you're gonna buy a house, then buy one with a value add component. Don't rely on the market to make you money. Find a house that needs some TLC and give it to it. Then after 2 years you can sell it tax free. I've know couples that have done this 4 or 5 times and they've made close to or more than a million dollars profit from it over the years.

 

[hijoshiki]

Most people do not know how to figure the cost of living in a home. They just see a higher appraisal after having owned the home for a while, and they think, "Oh, look, I made money."

They never factor in things like costs of maintenance or to upgrade or repair (have you priced a roof or HVAC system lately?) or the costs of landscaping and so on.

They never factor in their property taxes or interest cost.

And they never factor in inflation.

They never factor in closing costs for a mortgage.

They never factor in the realtor fees when buying or selling at the end (both would need to be subtracted).

Homes generally do not turn out to be good investments unless renters are paying the home down for you. To live in? It's just a consumption item.

I love it, though, when folks just compare the cost of monthly rent v. the cost of a monthly mortgage and overlook the downpayment and everything else listed above, or the fact that they do not have any money set aside for a roof or a furnace . . . they are usually better off renting, but you can't explain it to the kind of persons that actually have car payments and compare only the cost of rent to the monthly principle and interest cost on a 30 year mortgage.

This is true.

The problem is lets say you find a cheap apartment as a single guy. It's not all that nice, but you're handy. You tell the landlord you'll paint the inside, rip the carpet up and put down plank flooring which will take you and a buddy a couple of days of work. You might toss in a new shower and toilet if it's a mess you can buy kits for $700. They deduct that from your rent.

Now you got yourself a decent place to live. You pay $650/month, the landlord likes you because you're handy and can fix things when they go wrong and they appreciate that as it saves them money and headaches.

Many people would say that's a lot of money going down the toilet, that's sort of true.

So is owning a home when you factor in all the additional costs that aren't paying down your mortgage.

So the renter loses $7800, he pays no additional bills except utilities.

The home owner is gonna be paying up keep, taxes, insurance at least $5000K a year.

Renter is out $2800 a year when you subtract what they would have paid out for owning a home. However he took that down payment and invested it at a young age and he will be able to retire. He'll also be able to move quickly if he needs to find a new job. He keeps a nice stash of cash to buffer him while he goes through life and knows he'll be okay if something bad happens.

The most important part for me is how homes are built in the States.

Take a look at Europe where they have built housing that will stand for possibly hundreds of years. Now visit these US track homes in 40 years and take a look at them. They are crumbling. Go inside the bathrooms where you have to rip out the flooring and put in additional supports because the entire floor is collapsing around the toilet drain. When you have done remodeling on these homes built 30 years ago they aren't so bad. Today's homes in 40 years will be in horrible shape.

And I can assure you the quality of housing is getting much much worse. The stuff builders are slapping together in the states is criminal, it is total shit. You go in and start working on it and you find them cutting one corner after another because building materials are so expensive.

 

[Chuck Spears]

Are you really seeking financial advice from tiiktok retards and bodybuilders on a steroid forum?

 

[hijoshiki]

Are you really seeking financial advice from tiiktok retards and bodybuilders on a steroid forum?

Your damn right he is and he's getting great advice.

 

[T&H]

Your damn right he is and he's getting great advice.

You call your advice great? Between your posts here and in religious/political threads, you are an outright nut job. How anyone listens to a word you say is beyond me.

 

[Country Club Hero]

You could just as easily be needing to move when the market is down, like 2008-09.

Unless you have a working crystal ball, this is simply luck on the timing.

For what it is worth, I am seeing the large homebuilders reassessing in 2022, and getting rid of lots instead of building on them. What do they know (or predict)? They don't have a crystal ball, either, but I am guessing they have a lot more experience and information available to them than you and me put together.

I can tell you that is location based. People are fleeing blue states in droves after all the BS over the last 2 years. Our area is exploding in growth. Old, historic farms being sold off and neighborhoods going up so fast it makes me sick. The next census is going to be illuminating.

 

[MFAAS]

This is true.

The problem is lets say you find a cheap apartment as a single guy. It's not all that nice, but you're handy. You tell the landlord you'll paint the inside, rip the carpet up and put down plank flooring which will take you and a buddy a couple of days of work. You might toss in a new shower and toilet if it's a mess you can buy kits for $700. They deduct that from your rent.

Now you got yourself a decent place to live. You pay $650/month, the landlord likes you because you're handy and can fix things when they go wrong and they appreciate that as it saves them money and headaches.

This just doesn't seem realistic. I guess it really depends on location. A cheap apartment for a single guy for $650? Maybe in a rural town. Definitely not in any larger city or metro area. You're looking at $900 at least, maybe waaay more, if you want to live in a reasonably safe area.

As Far as the landlord deducting stuff like that from your rent? Good luck. Many landlords won't even let a tenant touch stuff on their own because they don't want anyone cutting corners or they want to know it was done right. Especially something like a shower, he'll no would I let a tenant redo a shower. I have replaced a shower before and it's serious business.

And then deducting that from your rent? Again, I doubt many landlords would be game for this. Maybe a partial deduction at most.

Also, it is necessary to plan for the long term. Chances are the guy is gonna meet a girl and she isn't gonna wanna live in his tiny apartment, especially if they have kids. So realistically they're only gonna save that much for a few years before life changes and they have to move.

Also your numbers assume the homeowners' property didn't appreciate at all. Again, this depends on the market. They could easily made $100k in tax-free appreciation while the renters saved $28k in their brokerage or IRA. There's plenty of places I wouldn't buy, but still many areas that are reasonable and likely to appreciate. It's always possible to lose money too, that the house depreciates, but there's ways to mitigate that, such as by looking for a property you can force appreciation on--basically by knowing your shit then doing the best value-adds you can do it. You could buy a fixer upper that needs a little work, or you could buy a house that is fairly nice, but older and on the lower end for the area, then just by "modernizing" it to some degree you can add tens of thousands in value.

In the end, there simply is no RIGHT answer here. Only what is right for each individual and then thay they are knowledgeable and skilled enough to execute their chosen approach effectively. Rent and deploy extra capital elsewhere or buy smart and make money on your home. Both are viable options and neither is THAT hard. What matters is the lifestyle you want. I'm a homesteaders. Good luck renting when you plan to literally plant your life garden on a plot of land. The landlord sees is and says oo now thats nice I'm not renewing your lease next year lol.

Or take a hybrid approach, buy a duplex and rent the other half, then live for cheap. Or buy a 3 bedroom and rent out 2 other bedrooms.

 

[T&H]

This just doesn't seem realistic. I guess it really depends on location. A cheap apartment for a single guy for $650? Maybe in a rural town. Definitely not in any larger city or metro area. You're looking at $900 at least, maybe waaay more, if you want to live in a reasonably safe area.

As Far as the landlord deducting stuff like that from your rent? Good luck. Many landlords won't even let a tenant touch stuff on their own because they don't want anyone cutting corners or they want to know it was done right. Especially something like a shower, he'll no would I let a tenant redo a shower. I have replaced a shower before and it's serious business.

And then deducting that from your rent? Again, I doubt many landlords would be game for this. Maybe a partial deduction at most.

Also, it is necessary to plan for the long term. Chances are the guy is gonna meet a girl and she isn't gonna wanna live in his tiny apartment, especially if they have kids. So realistically they're only gonna save that much for a few years before life changes and they have to move.

Also your numbers assume the homeowners' property didn't appreciate at all. Again, this depends on the market. They could easily made $100k in tax-free appreciation while the renters saved $28k in their brokerage or IRA. There's plenty of places I wouldn't buy, but still many areas that are reasonable and likely to appreciate. It's always possible to lose money too, that the house depreciates, but there's ways to mitigate that, such as by looking for a property you can force appreciation on--basically by knowing your shit then doing the best value-adds you can do it. You could buy a fixer upper that needs a little work, or you could buy a house that is fairly nice, but older and on the lower end for the area, then just by "modernizing" it to some degree you can add tens of thousands in value.

In the end, there simply is no RIGHT answer here. Only what is right for each individual and then thay they are knowledgeable and skilled enough to execute their chosen approach effectively. Rent and deploy extra capital elsewhere or buy smart and make money on your home. Both are viable options and neither is THAT hard. What matters is the lifestyle you want. I'm a homesteaders. Good luck renting when you plan to literally plant your life garden on a plot of land. The landlord sees is and says oo now thats nice I'm not renewing your lease next year lol.

Or take a hybrid approach, buy a duplex and rent the other half, then live for cheap. Or buy a 3 bedroom and rent out 2 other bedrooms.

Seems like everyone pro renting is forgetting the fact a landlord can raise rent at anytime, sell the home and give you 30 days, or not fix an issue that you are stuck with. But hey, at least you don't have a mortgage, ha.

And $650 for an apartment, that's what my area was going for 11 years ago when I bought my home. This guy is throwing stuff out to justify his reasoning.

 

[hijoshiki]

I understand the criticism.

I'm a midwestern guy.

You'll never see me live in a large city surrounded by people, that shit sucks, as I used to live in a large city with lots of violence when I was younger and the further I get away from humans the happier I am. Nothing better than a rural setting where you have nothing going on.

So yes my rates for an apartment are based on what I used to charge for my rentals until I sold them on land contracts.

I look at it from my perspective. I have done a lot of remodeling work. However I know most renters are lazy assholes that you can't trust, they're always breaking the rules, bringing in pets, destroying shit, smoking. In an ideal world I would want a single man that is an engineer, clean cut, bible believing, a chaste man, a fastidious perfectionist in the image of
Immanuel Kant

​

Instead what you end up with is:

 

[malfeasance]

I can tell you that is location based. People are fleeing blue states in droves after all the BS over the last 2 years. Our area is exploding in growth. Old, historic farms being sold off and neighborhoods going up so fast it makes me sick. The next census is going to be illuminating.

I am talking about large home builders based in red states. They aren't advertising it. By all appearances looking around, everything on the surface looks like you describe, but I have some special insight into what these large players in the industry are starting to do, and this is just starting, so you will still see the farms being torn up for a little bit. They are anticipating a drastic change in the near future.

I mean, when was the last time we had slowing economic growth and increasing inflation? You probably are not old enough to remember, but you can go read about the 1970s. It was not pretty.

 

[Country Club Hero]

I am talking about large home builders based in red states. They aren't advertising it. By all appearances looking around, everything on the surface looks like you describe, but I have some special insight into what these large players in the industry are starting to do, and this is just starting, so you will still see the farms being torn up for a little bit. They are anticipating a drastic change in the near future.

I mean, when was the last time we had slowing economic growth and increasing inflation? You probably are not old enough to remember, but you can go read about the 1970s. It was not pretty.

I’m anticipating some of the bigger cities in blue states will become Mad Maxxish. Part ghost town, part lawlessness. Decent taxpayers will no longer frequent downtown spots and then the money draws up. It will take massive federal funding to keep them afloat. We have a disaster brewing and our criminal leaders are playing some crooked ass politics. People better wake up fast.

 

[MFAAS]

I’m anticipating some of the bigger cities in blue states will become Mad Maxxish. Part ghost town, part lawlessness. Decent taxpayers will no longer frequent downtown spots and then the money draws up. It will take massive federal funding to keep them afloat. We have a disaster brewing and our criminal leaders are playing some crooked ass politics. People better wake up fast.

If there's chaos like that anywhere, it will be almost everywhere. The only exceptions MIGHT be tight-knit, small communities where almost everyone knows each other. But if you're in a rural town of 15,000 in a red state like me, I fully expect our downtown area to go to shit and to have skinheads trucking around looking for easy prey

That's just the way humans work. Political ideology won't be enough to hold section of society or certain communities together when people don't have enough food to eat or they don't have heat in the winter. They're gonna get their guns and armor, this is the moment they've been waiting for--to go vigilante and patrol the streets shaking down innocent people for whatever they have.

That's why in the bug out thread I have posted some advice for people to stock up on food to survive for an extended period of time. The goal would be to not leave your house/land. Have camera traps on your land as well as .22 blank traps in the trees so if someone approaches they hit that wire and BANG you are alerted and ready to defend yourself. Anyway, this isn't the prepping thread.

I am talking about large home builders based in red states. They aren't advertising it. By all appearances looking around, everything on the surface looks like you describe, but I have some special insight into what these large players in the industry are starting to do, and this is just starting, so you will still see the farms being torn up for a little bit. They are anticipating a drastic change in the near future.

I mean, when was the last time we had slowing economic growth and increasing inflation? You probably are not old enough to remember, but you can go read about the 1970s. It was not pretty.

People in this thread keep saying "in red states" or "in blue states". I don't understand why any societal changes, whether it be large developers doing a sharp pivot on their strategy so as not to go out of business in the coming years, or whether it be some level of societal breakdown where people forgo the rules and just do what they feel they must to survive. To me, none of this is a red or blue state issue. Developers be developin' all over. They don't give a fuck about the politics of the state. If there's a metro area they can build up, you can be damn sure they will try. Farms that live near suburban areas are trying to sell their land for millions anyway because they want to finally retire.

I just think people should stop even mentioning red state or blue state in these topics. It's almost entirely irrelevant. I've lived in both a red and a blue state within the last year and both are developing like mad. We're talking a blue state metro area of ~600k people and then a red state rural area of ~15k people. Both are developing as much as possible--the only difference is the scale and that's primarily due to the size/population of the area and the amount of investors anyway--not because of some inherent different in red vs blue states.

Regardless of where you live, if you don't have a years worth of savings saved up, now's the time to start. If you don't have a years worth of food stocked up and the ability to access clean water if municipal water goes bye bye, then figure it out.

I feel like we're at a point in time where people's past experiences with buying vs renting are almost irrelevant. I bought my first property, a duplex, and rented out half. Then I got to live in a very nice 3 bed 3 bath for $600/month, not including utilities. Me and my girl did quite a lot of work to both sides, and I grossed over $200k when I sold it (net was about $180k). That enabled me to buy my dream property, which needs some work. I just can't buy a "ready to live in" house lmao. I feel it is a financial waste--just like I have never and could never buy a new car. I've had 6 figures in my checking account (not for long, I moved it to other accounts, I'm not stupid) on more than one occasion and the thought of buying a new car never even crossed my mind, even though mine is 10 years old and has clear coat peeling off the hood. Hell, I didn't even think about replacing the hood or repainting, it--I just don't give a shit! lol. Now I own a beautiful house that need some work, which I will do myself, and even if the market drops 20%, even 30%, I am perfectly happy and comfortable with my purchase because:
1. I bought in a place with SUPER low property taxes. I pay like $2k a year on a $500k property...
2. I am adding value to the house. I anticipate the work me and my girl will do will end up adding $100-200k in the end. Yes that's a wide range, it depends wildly on the market.

The points is, by buying a house that needs work that I can force appreciation on, I can protect myself against a downturn to some degree. It's like if your work offers an employee stock program and you get to buy stock at a 15% discount. That means that even if the market says the stock is worth 10% less when you vest, you still made 5% (actually 7.64 due to the magic of math, but I won't get into that).

Or I could have kept renting a dump apartment that I hated and could hear the neighbors screaming at each other for fucking $1200 a month not including utilities and had maintenance issues that they wouldn't fix! That was for a dumpy 2 bedroom apartment AND it was $100 off because it was a sublet and the subletter put that as an incentive for the subletees (is that a word? lol). And that apartment was literally the best I could get without living in THE GHETTO where I or my girl was liable to have to shoot someone for trying to rob us for heroin money.

Buying my homes/properties that I also lived in has been the best thing I have ever done overall, it's added a quarter million to my net worth in a mere 5 years. Try to tell me that you were able to do that while renting and investing the money you save renting vs buying (keeping in mind that in MANY, MANY areas a mortgage is actually much cheaper than rent).

So I am all for buying a house, but you MUST, absolutely MUST learn your shit first. Learn how to fix things, listen to real estate podcasts enough that you understand forced appreciation and the market and how to analyze a property like an investment. The mistake most people make is that they buy a house because the wife loves the luxury kitchen and the husband thinks this place would make a GREAT man cave and the location is near the bus stop for the kids and it's got fancy toilets that have a special coating on them that make it so you NEVER have to clean them lmao (I just made that up haha). People should be buying an an investme

 

[Ridethelightningbarefoot]

Are you really seeking financial advice from tiiktok retards and bodybuilders on a steroid forum?

No. I consume content and then verify the info later. I dont ever just take people at their word, I always verify. On here there are a lot of smart, well off people so I figured there may be some good advice on here.

 

[Big_paul]

..I thought to myself how? You buy low and sell high! Im currently in that position.

Buying low would be buying in 2008-2010. That was after a historic crash.

Whats the difference today? Prices are sky high. Interest rates are on the rise and unlikely to come down any time soon considering the inflation rate. The days of free money are on the way out. And people complain about social programs.

I wouldn't even consider real estate today. Just my 2 cents.

 

[hijoshiki]

Buying low would be buying in 2008-2010. That was after a historic crash.

Whats the difference today? Prices are sky high. Interest rates are on the rise and unlikely to come down any time soon considering the inflation rate. The days of free money are on the way out. And people complain about social programs.

I wouldn't even consider real estate today. Just my 2 cents.

New Home design needs to shrink in size and improve in quality.

Average European home is around 500 sq ft. United States new home builds are 2500 sq.ft. and the means by which they are built is ultra cheapo.

We need to drastically shrink the size of our homes and bring the cost down to allow for reduced prices and to force the population size down. We have to get more of our national income into focusing on retirement.

We don't want anymore of these idiots that have 5 kids. One kid is more than anyone needs and even that is a disaster for the retirement.

Then we need to completely shut down our immigration except for those that can buy their way in. I'd say 1 million would be enough to move here and that should shut off immigration to the point it's almost nonexistent.

With 20,000 immigrants flooding in every single day, with these people having insanely high birth rates, we are heading for a disaster as our population pushes up towards 400 million, draining our natural resources especially water.

Environmentalist talk out their asses all day long, but they never talk about the most important issue which is population. Take Ethiopia with the famine back in the mid 80's when the country only had 30,000,000 people, thanks to our intervention the population exploded to 119,000,000 and is on track to hit 210,000,000 in 30 years and yet they have the same limited water resources.....this is fucking dumb and only to increase the misery when the shtf, and where do people think they're gonna go when they have problems....straight to western countries when they can swarm in like a plague of locusts and devour everything.

Instead of Pfizer and Moderna worrying about Covid they need to instead cook up an mRNA vaxx for sterilizing 90% of the world where they have high birth rates.

 

[MR_Midas]

Ive been hearing a lot of finance influencers talking about how owning a home is a waste of money....I thought to myself how? You buy low and sell high! Im currently in that position. I have a ton equity built up. I have some problems in the house but even if I sell as is, i will still make a nice profit. The problem is all the markets around me are high too! So I can rent for a high price or buy a home for the equivalent sales price of my current home or a little higher! So whats the point? Is that just how it works?? You eat shit or pick up your life and move somewhere else? I have the option to make improvements and repairs right now also...I dont know what to do.

For example, when I bought a house, I felt that it was mine, my home, my fortress. And I somehow felt better mentally. Additional meaning of life, repair, arrangement and so on.

 

[Ridethelightningbarefoot]

For example, when I bought a house, I felt that it was mine, my home, my fortress. And I somehow felt better mentally. Additional meaning of life, repair, arrangement and so on.

I dont like thinking about eating out of the hand of these dirty banks. I wish it was like it used to be where land was yours and you shoot somebody for setting foot on it if ya had to and no one could tell ya otherwise. It is a safe haven for me in a lot of ways and my kids have grown up in it

 

[MR_Midas]

I dont like thinking about eating out of the hand of these dirty banks. I wish it was like it used to be where land was yours and you shoot somebody for setting foot on it if ya had to and no one could tell ya otherwise. It is a safe haven for me in a lot of ways and my kids have grown up in it

Yes, you rightly noticed, I would also like it as before.