Non-aromatising substitute for testosterone

[Ateam2023]

Let me help you read what the OP was asking to begin with:

I stand by starting with 20mg TE daily for quality of life. Some use primo, some use masteron, personally I would only use those temporarily, not as a long term solution.

so op is looking for something "besides testosterone " and you are recommending using testosterone? I don't get your logic?

 

[BamaCrazy]

Let me help you read what the OP was asking to begin with:

I stand by starting with 20mg TE daily for quality of life. Some use primo, some use masteron, personally I would only use those temporarily, not as a long term solution.

The OP is asking for a substitute for testosterone. TE is testosterone and it aromatizes. Plus pinning daily is the opposite of quality of life. lol

 

[cousinmuscles]

The OP is asking for a substitute for testosterone. TE is testosterone and it aromatizes. Plus pinning daily is the opposite of quality of life. lol

so op is looking for something "besides testosterone " and you are recommending using testosterone? I don't get your logic?

Yes because I have tried it and found that it is better with testosterone only. Why answer a question only if you are to tell them what they want to hear?

If pinning daily is a burden to your quality of life, then your discipline is the greatest burden on your quality of life.

 

[Ateam2023]

Yes because I have tried it and found that it is better with testosterone only. Why answer a question only if you are to tell them what they want to hear?

If pinning daily is a burden to your quality of life, then your discipline is the greatest burden on your quality of life.

Yes because I have tried it and found that it is better with testosterone only. Why answer a question only if you are to tell them what they want to hear?

If pinning daily is a burden to your quality of life, then your discipline is the greatest burden on your quality of life.

So what works for you obviously doesn't matter because op specifically asked about a testosterone substitute, can you not follow along , op has tried alot of different methods, stick to the task at hand man , were not here to give "what works for me advice" to a question, non productive motions,,

 

[Ateam2023]

Yes because I have tried it and found that it is better with testosterone only. Why answer a question only if you are to tell them what they want to hear?

If pinning daily is a burden to your quality of life, then your discipline is the greatest burden on your quality of life.

Sounds like your just babbling to post , completely off script,, Answer the question or move along ,, and discipline has nothing to do with jabbing yourself everyday , after 15+ years of jabbing you might understand this,, Quality of life= comfort,,

 

[cousinmuscles]

So what works for you obviously doesn't matter because op specifically asked about a testosterone substitute, can you not follow along , op has tried alot of different methods, stick to the task at hand man , were not here to give "what works for me advice" to a question, non productive motions,,

Let me help you see clearly the posts I made to try and help OPs situation, not just spew random words and assume what the OP wants to hear:

Are you doing the sensitive E2 test? The expensive one, like $150 or so.

Male range is low to begin with and it is common for the normal test to vary. Honestly I don't know exactly how much it varies but a quick google search gives threads where people say their sensitive test was tens of points lower than their regular test. The regular test also can't differ between some drugs and estradiol too.

Regarding finger length, how do you deduce impacts of hormones from that metric? By being IVF, do you mean you were conceived through IVF? And what are the consequences of that in regards to hormones?

Many times people blast androgens for very long and when they go to normal levels they feel like crap. It takes time for your body to adjust again. I personally would drop to 20mg per day and just feel crappy for a while until I can feel good with that dose. Another option would be to stay at 30mg per day for a longer time, then 25mg for a long time, then 20mg, to let your body adjust slowly without having to feel crap. If not, 30mg test is not really toxic, and as long as you manage your health and do regular blood work, IMO any issues that can arise you will be able to foresee and manage.

If you don't want E2 results to be a random number generation then you'll need the sensitive test. Try and find a lab that does it cheaper. I am stuck with $150+ for this test because the university hospital is the only one doing it. I have seen google results of US labs doing it for $85.

Worth pointing out that other lifestyle factors can help, like choosing the correct carbs, sleep hygiene, hydration + salt.

I don't know and of course everyone is different, but in this context I meant when someone has been blasting test with tren and maybe something else, drops to 150mg, me and all my friends told me they felt low for a couple of weeks, but that is an enormous change. At 5mg changes down per day I would guess you wouldn't feel a difference.

Regarding the non sensitive test, I don't have that many tests done myself, I do know that the non sensitive test captures other drugs and counts them as estradiol, and the variance is greater than usual even though all blood markers vary when you test them (nothing is 100% accurate, they've told me this countless times at the lab). If it would cost that much for me I wouldn't bother, just go through trial and error and find what feels best.

This is probably too much text for you to handle, but among all the attempts to help, only a lesser part was on what to take.

If you wonder why I advised not to take additional steroids for a perpetual plan, you could ask why. I warn you though, that would mean you would receive information to process, which requires thinking. Have an ibuprofen at hand.

 

[cousinmuscles]

Sounds like your just babbling to post , completely off script,, Answer the question or move along ,, and discipline has nothing to do with jabbing yourself everyday , after 15+ years of jabbing you might understand this,, Quality of life= comfort,,

The lazier you are, the less you feel you need to do to feel good. Becoming comfortable doing less is not quality of life, that is deterioration.

 

[BamaCrazy]

The lazier you are, the less you feel you need to do to feel good. Becoming comfortable doing less is not quality of life, that is deterioration.

Well, now we know who to come to for shitty advice. You think you are helping the OP but you really are not.

 

[BigDadd7]

Yes because I have tried it and found that it is better with testosterone only. Why answer a question only if you are to tell them what they want to hear?

If pinning daily is a burden to your quality of life, then your discipline is the greatest burden on your quality of life.

Somehow, this response made sense to you.

 

[xrayphoton13]

I may have missed a bunch but if you aren't doing an ultra sensitive e2 test that could be why you e2 labs are all over the place.

As far as non aromatizing maybe add some low dose anavar(5-10mg). I've seen some people use it long term in their trt+ without destroying cholesterol or their liver. Or Halo. Halo has been used long term in Addison's disease treatment. I think the dose is 10mg 4x per day but double check that.

Deca could work. People have run it for years and years as a trt add-on. Yes it aromatizes but not as much as testosterone and it's a very potent muscle builder, stronger than testosterone and definitely stronger than primo/mast/eq. It's hit or miss how it will make you feel though in terms of quality of life You may love it, you may hate it.

But overall your best trt and quality of life protocol, if that's what you are looking for, would strictly be testosterone at a low enough dose to not have e2 symptoms.

 

[Jaxino]

I have had enough of fighting aromatisation. Any dose of testosterone I take requires a big dose of an aromatase inhibitor. And my e2 fluctuates so massively between blood tests that I have no idea where my e2 actually is.

300mg of TE per week with 3.5mg of anastrozole per week puts my e2 at somewhere between 20 and 130pg/ml, depending on the day. All variables are controlled as best as possible before testing.

I feel my best at around 220mg TE per week, but with my e2 fluctuating so much, I can’t tell if any symptoms are due to high or low e2.

I am considering lowering my testosterone to the point where an AI isn’t needed. But I then lose the therapeutic effect of the testosterone.

For quality of life purposes, which compound is the best non-aromatising substitute for testosterone?

If you can't fix a decent test dose this game isn't for you. At all.

 

[HUGE McBIGLARGE]

If you can't fix a decent test dose this game isn't for you. At all.

I agree. But what’s the alternative? Feel even worse on nothing?

Even with my e2 all over the place, I feel better now than I did pre-T.

 

[Pizzaslice01]

I know I'm coming in late but would recommend trying EQ.

Add in 300mg a weel and adjust from there.

 

[HUGE McBIGLARGE]

This is on:
30mg primo daily
30mg testosterone daily
100iu hcg daily
All dosed subq. No AI

The primo definitely lowered my e2. At that dose of testosterone I’d expect my e2 to be 2-3x higher without any aromatase inhibition.

Ignore the reference ranges; I had to say I’m a FTM transgender in order to get my estradiol tested.

 

[HeatherSwanson]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QPbTgFIDWY

 

[wp_375]

I have had enough of fighting aromatisation. Any dose of testosterone I take requires a big dose of an aromatase inhibitor. And my e2 fluctuates so massively between blood tests that I have no idea where my e2 actually is.

300mg of TE per week with 3.5mg of anastrozole per week puts my e2 at somewhere between 20 and 130pg/ml, depending on the day. All variables are controlled as best as possible before testing.

I feel my best at around 220mg TE per week, but with my e2 fluctuating so much, I can’t tell if any symptoms are due to high or low e2.

I am considering lowering my testosterone to the point where an AI isn’t needed. But I then lose the therapeutic effect of the testosterone.

For quality of life purposes, which compound is the best non-aromatising substitute for testosterone?

You sound like a great candidate to add Primobolan to your TRT. It adds some anabolism and works as an AI and Primo is probably the lowest side effect steroid of all time.

 

[AlexDavis43]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QPbTgFIDWY

Israetel is so desperate for content it's painful to watch.

Now that he almost went bankrupt trying to launch a protein RTD, he's doubling down on youtube videos to try to cover the losses with increased ad revenue.

He used to put out decent training videos. I'm beginning to think maybe Jared Feather is the brains of the operation.

 

[HUGE McBIGLARGE]

This is on:
60mg TE EoD subq
200iu HCG EoD
1.135mg letrozole ED

I had been on these doses for 22 days.

Testosterone and HCG were dosed 24 hours prior. Letrozole was dosed 12 hours prior.

I’m very pleased with letrozole. It actually crushed my e2 unlike anastrozole and exemestane.

I follow the Vorck iron loading guide. This blood draw was done 4 weeks after I had finished the last iron loading. So it’s raised my ferritin almost too well!

Ignore the reference ranges on the test; I again had to say I was a woman to get my estradiol tested.

Unfortunately, I felt no different with low e2 compared to with high e2 with the only exceptions being a much worse libido, and pain in one big toe.

Going forwards I am considering upping the testosterone dose to either 90mg EoD or 120mg EoD, and keeping the letrozole the same, in order to raise my e2. I am aiming for 100pmol/l.

As always, I am open to suggestions if anyone throws one my way.

 

[Liter O' Test]

This is on:
60mg TE EoD subq
200iu HCG EoD
1.135mg letrozole ED

I had been on these doses for 22 days.

Testosterone and HCG were dosed 24 hours prior. Letrozole was dosed 12 hours prior.

I’m very pleased with letrozole. It actually crushed my e2 unlike anastrozole and exemestane.

I follow the Vorck iron loading guide. This blood draw was done 4 weeks after I had finished the last iron loading. So it’s raised my ferritin almost too well!

Ignore the reference ranges on the test; I again had to say I was a woman to get my estradiol tested.

Unfortunately, I felt no different with low e2 compared to with high e2 with the only exceptions being a much worse libido, and pain in one big toe.

Going forwards I am considering upping the testosterone dose to either 90mg EoD or 120mg EoD, and keeping the letrozole the same, in order to raise my e2. I am aiming for 100pmol/l.

As always, I am open to suggestions if anyone throws one my way.

View attachment 342005

i read from chatgpt a few days ago that high doses of iron are extremely pro oxidative for men and that iron supplements arent reccomended even in a multi

 

[cousinmuscles]

Do you want to run a cycle at 400mg, thus keeping letrozole dose same? If not, I don't follow why you wouldn't take less letro.