Mythbusters #1: High Dose Blends: PIP + Solubility

ChemBB

Member
Welcome to the "Mythbusters" Series: Discussing common misconceptions/folklore about AAS!


In this first edition, we're tackling high-concentration steroid blends and the infamous PIP. We will cover:
  • How solubility and crystallization actually work.
  • Why a well-formulated blend isn't the problem.
  • What really causes high-dose blends to "crash" in the muscle.



One of the biggest myths in this space is that high-dose blends are inherently more painful than their individual components.
This is fundamentally incorrect. Let's break down why.

The Two Primary Causes of PIP

Post-injection pain generally stems from two distinct mechanisms:

  1. Solvent/Carrier Irritation: Solvents like Benzyl Alcohol (BA) are effective at dissolving hormone powder, but they are also irritants. Gear brewed with a high % of BA can cause a burning sensation + immediate post-injection inflammation.
  2. Hormone Crystallization: This occurs when the steroid hormone itself comes out of the oil solution and forms solid micro-crystals within the muscle tissue ("crashing").

Let's focus on the second point, as it's the source of the myth.



Solubility: The "Salt & Sugar" Principle

To understand why blends work, we need to understand HOW crystals form.

A crystal lattice can only be formed by molecules of the exact same type. Different steroid esters are, chemically speaking, different molecules.

Think of it like dissolving salt and sugar in a glass of water. You can dissolve a certain amount of salt, and you can dissolve a certain amount of sugar. Dissolving one doesn't stop you from dissolving the other. If the water evaporates, you'll be left with separate salt crystals and sugar crystals—they will not form a single "salt-sugar" crystal.

Steroids work the same way.
  • Tren E molecules can only crystallize with other Tren E molecules.
  • Tren Ace molecules can only crystallize with other Tren Ace molecules.
They cannot crystallize together. This means their individual solubility limits are independent of one another in a blend.

So, if a carrier oil can hold 100mg/mL of Trenbolone Acetate and 200mg/mL of Trenbolone Enanthate, you can brew a perfectly stable 300mg/mL blend containing both. From a crystallization perspective, injecting this blend is no different than performing two separate injections of the single esters.



The Real Culprit: In-Muscle Crashing

So if the blend itself is stable, why do people still experience PIP from high-dose formulas?

The problem isn't the blend; it's the concentration of an individual hormone being pushed to its absolute limit.

Here's the process:
  1. You inject the oil depot, which contains the hormone powder, the carrier oil (e.g., GSO, MCT), and co-solvents (e.g., BA, BB).
  2. Once in the muscle, the highly mobile co-solvents (BA/BB) begin to leach out of the oil depot and disperse into the surrounding aqueous environment of your muscle tissue ("aqueous interstitial fluid")
  3. As the co-solvents leave the oil, the oil's capacity to hold the hormone in solution decreases dramatically. The "saturation point" is now much lower.
  4. If any single hormone in that blend was brewed right at its maximum solubility limit, it has now exceeded the new, lower limit. The hormone begins to precipitate out of the oil, forming jagged micro-crystals at the injection site.

These tiny crystal needles cause mechanical irritation + trigger a localized inflammatory immune response, resulting in the long-lasting pain we know as "PIP".

1759320925259.webp



TL;DR

High-concentration blends are not inherently problematic. The issue arises when a manufacturer pushes a single compound within the blend to its absolute solubility limit, leaving no margin for error once the co-solvents diffuse away post-injection. A well-formulated, high-dose blend can be just as smooth as a low-dose, single-ester product.

---

Planned Future Topics:
  • Does Nandrolone aromatize? If so, how?
  • Trestolone (MENT): Facts vs. Fiction
Feel free to suggest other topics you'd like to see covered!
 
Welcome to the "Mythbusters" Series: Discussing common misconceptions/folklore about AAS!


In this first edition, we're tackling high-concentration steroid blends and the infamous PIP. We will cover:
  • How solubility and crystallization actually work.
  • Why a well-formulated blend isn't the problem.
  • What really causes high-dose blends to "crash" in the muscle.



One of the biggest myths in this space is that high-dose blends are inherently more painful than their individual components.
This is fundamentally incorrect. Let's break down why.

The Two Primary Causes of PIP

Post-injection pain generally stems from two distinct mechanisms:

  1. Solvent/Carrier Irritation: Solvents like Benzyl Alcohol (BA) are effective at dissolving hormone powder, but they are also irritants. Gear brewed with a high % of BA can cause a burning sensation + immediate post-injection inflammation.
  2. Hormone Crystallization: This occurs when the steroid hormone itself comes out of the oil solution and forms solid micro-crystals within the muscle tissue ("crashing").

Let's focus on the second point, as it's the source of the myth.



Solubility: The "Salt & Sugar" Principle

To understand why blends work, we need to understand HOW crystals form.

A crystal lattice can only be formed by molecules of the exact same type. Different steroid esters are, chemically speaking, different molecules.

Think of it like dissolving salt and sugar in a glass of water. You can dissolve a certain amount of salt, and you can dissolve a certain amount of sugar. Dissolving one doesn't stop you from dissolving the other. If the water evaporates, you'll be left with separate salt crystals and sugar crystals—they will not form a single "salt-sugar" crystal.

Steroids work the same way.
  • Tren E molecules can only crystallize with other Tren E molecules.
  • Tren Ace molecules can only crystallize with other Tren Ace molecules.
They cannot crystallize together. This means their individual solubility limits are independent of one another in a blend.

So, if a carrier oil can hold 100mg/mL of Trenbolone Acetate and 200mg/mL of Trenbolone Enanthate, you can brew a perfectly stable 300mg/mL blend containing both. From a crystallization perspective, injecting this blend is no different than performing two separate injections of the single esters.



The Real Culprit: In-Muscle Crashing

So if the blend itself is stable, why do people still experience PIP from high-dose formulas?

The problem isn't the blend; it's the concentration of an individual hormone being pushed to its absolute limit.

Here's the process:
  1. You inject the oil depot, which contains the hormone powder, the carrier oil (e.g., GSO, MCT), and co-solvents (e.g., BA, BB).
  2. Once in the muscle, the highly mobile co-solvents (BA/BB) begin to leach out of the oil depot and disperse into the surrounding aqueous environment of your muscle tissue ("aqueous interstitial fluid")
  3. As the co-solvents leave the oil, the oil's capacity to hold the hormone in solution decreases dramatically. The "saturation point" is now much lower.
  4. If any single hormone in that blend was brewed right at its maximum solubility limit, it has now exceeded the new, lower limit. The hormone begins to precipitate out of the oil, forming jagged micro-crystals at the injection site.

These tiny crystal needles cause mechanical irritation + trigger a localized inflammatory immune response, resulting in the long-lasting pain we know as "PIP".

View attachment 351928



TL;DR

High-concentration blends are not inherently problematic. The issue arises when a manufacturer pushes a single compound within the blend to its absolute solubility limit, leaving no margin for error once the co-solvents diffuse away post-injection. A well-formulated, high-dose blend can be just as smooth as a low-dose, single-ester product.

---

Planned Future Topics:
  • Does Nandrolone aromatize? If so, how?
  • Trestolone (MENT): Facts vs. Fiction
Feel free to suggest other topics you'd like to see covered!
This is why my damn 50mg/ml Winstrol hold perfectly but after being injected it is painful. It crashes in the muscle as the solvents start leaving and can't hold it in solution anymore
 
This is why my damn 50mg/ml Winstrol hold perfectly but after being injected it is painful. It crashes in the muscle as the solvents start leaving and can't hold it in solution anymore
exactly.
Solubility: The "Salt & Sugar" Principle

To understand why blends work, we need to understand HOW crystals form.

A crystal lattice can only be formed by molecules of the exact same type. Different steroid esters are, chemically speaking, different molecules.

Think of it like dissolving salt and sugar in a glass of water. You can dissolve a certain amount of salt, and you can dissolve a certain amount of sugar. Dissolving one doesn't stop you from dissolving the other. If the water evaporates, you'll be left with separate salt crystals and sugar crystals—they will not form a single "salt-sugar" crystal.
seems my
25DHT
30 Sdrol
90 TNE
4Mtren
mix could still work out, huh?
 
In this first edition, we're tackling high-concentration steroid blends and the infamous PIP. We will cover:
How convenient, I was just quizzing AI about this, but the answer was lacklustre to say the least. I am glad my middle school level understanding of chemistry actually had me guessing somewhat right.

Thanks!

Asking for a friend: Could we get a 400mg Tren (A+C+H) or 300mg Primo (A+E) blend according to this?

Also, are some people actually less susceptiple to PIP, not because of their pain tolerance, but for physiological or enzymatic reasons?
 
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How convenient, I was just quizzing AI about this, but the answer was lacklustre to say the least. I am glad my middle school level understanding of chemistry actually had me guessing somewhat right.

Thanks!

Asking for a friend: Could we get a 400mg Tren (A+C+H) or 300mg Primo (A+E) blend according to this?

Also, are some people actually less susceptiple to PIP, not because of their pain tolerance, but for physiological or enzymatic reasons?
Primo ace is painful at any concentration so no you can't.
 
Could we get a 400mg Tren (A+C+H) or 300mg Primo (A+E) blend according to this?

Yes, you just apply whatever the solubility limit of each individual ESTER of each compound is.

Tren E, I've seen brewed @ 400mg/mL by itself. Though unsure of recipe.

Tren Hex is a huge, overpriced meme though. Never buy that stuff.

Primo ace is painful at any concentration so no you can't.

PIP is highly individual -- I don't get PIP from DHB Cyp @ 100-150mg/mL. And I know for sure it was DHB and the advertised concentration because I brewed it myself.
 
Yes, you just apply whatever the solubility limit of each individual ESTER of each compound is.

Tren E, I've seen brewed @ 400mg/mL by itself. Though unsure of recipe.

Tren Hex is a huge, overpriced meme though. Never buy that stuff.



PIP is highly individual -- I don't get PIP from DHB Cyp @ 100-150mg/mL. And I know for sure it was DHB and the advertised concentration because I brewed it myself.
go try Primo Ace and then come back and tell me it's highly individual (on primo ACE, I agree on other substances) same with Bold Ace.

Btw your solubility talk is nice but not really true.
Try brew test P and test PP 100mg/ml each in a solution of 200mg/ml. Still haven't met someone telling me it's pipless quite the contrary but I could be mistaken, when I have TPP on hand I'll try it myself.

plus you are missing one thing, total saturation in a set volume, if it was 100% like you are saying I could brew 8 different substances all at 100mg/ml in a blend for a total of 800mg/ml.
Yeah that won't work pretty sure of it.
If it would we would see a lot more test C/E/D/P/PP/U blends offering easily 600+mg/ml pipless (if we believe your theory)
 
Yes, you just apply whatever the solubility limit of each individual ESTER of each compound is.

Tren E, I've seen brewed @ 400mg/mL by itself. Though unsure of recipe.

Tren Hex is a huge, overpriced meme though. Never buy that stuff.



PIP is highly individual -- I don't get PIP from DHB Cyp @ 100-150mg/mL. And I know for sure it was DHB and the advertised concentration because I brewed it myself.
go try Primo Ace and then come back and tell me it's highly individual (on primo ACE, I agree on other substances) same with Bold Ace.

Btw your solubility talk is nice but not really true.
Try brew test P and test PP 100mg/ml each in a solution of 200mg/ml. Still haven't met someone telling me it's pipless quite the contrary but I could be mistaken, when I have TPP on hand I'll try it myself.

plus you are missing one thing, total saturation in a set volume, if it was 100% like you are saying I could brew 8 different substances all at 100mg/ml in a blend for a total of 800mg/ml.
Yeah that won't work pretty sure of it.
If it would we would see a lot more test C/E/D/P/PP/U blends offering easily 600+mg/ml pipless (if we believe your theory)
 
Try brew test P and test PP 100mg/ml each in a solution of 200mg/ml

I have some Test with a similar composition, Hepius SuperTest 450 from WWB:

Code:
Supertest 450mg

Testosterone Acetate 32mg
Testosterone Propionate 73mg
Testosterone PhenylPropionate 73 mg
Testosterone Cypionate 125mg
Testosterone Decanoate 147mg

Would be happy to pin some to prove a point...

I'm sure lots of other people have pinned this blend as well.
I think @Photon mentioned having some, maybe?
 
plus you are missing one thing, total saturation in a set volume, if it was 100% like you are saying I could brew 8 different substances all at 100mg/ml in a blend for a total of 800mg/ml.
Yeah that won't work pretty sure of it.

You absolutely can, this is basic chemistry.


If it would we would see a lot more test C/E/D/P/PP/U blends offering easily 600+mg/ml pipless (if we believe your theory)

There are lots of PIP-less, high concentration blends.

Test D @ 500mg/mL for example
Test E 300 + Test C 300
EQ 400-600 + Test D 400

There's like 5 people in this thread alone commenting on zero PIP for Test D 500, the pricelist description is:

Code:
•T-500mg/ml (zero pip painless).
Test Decanoate $52




 
You absolutely can, this is basic chemistry.




There are lots of PIP-less, high concentration blends.

Test D @ 500mg/mL for example
Test E 300 + Test C 300
EQ 400-600 + Test D 400

There's like 5 people in this thread alone commenting on zero PIP for Test D 500, the pricelist description is:

Code:
•T-500mg/ml (zero pip painless).
Test Decanoate $52




man... I think after Narta and Spiff I have been the one brewing the most test D 500 around here, do you read?
 
In the end nothing beat test D 500mg/ml simple effective pipless

against it any other test blends looks like just a joke

You don't have to tell me brother, haha

1759576621600.webp


 
Tren E, I've seen brewed @ 400mg/mL by itself. Though unsure of recipe.
Tren Hex is a huge, overpriced meme though. Never buy that stuff.
I would have bought that just for being a a collector's item! I am still hoping, that I will one day come across a box of Parabolan, with the medical insert, and in mint condition.
Though I didn't mean to imply that Tren H is anything special, just that it is another ester in the toolbox to achieve a high concentration.

PIP is highly individual -- I don't get PIP from DHB Cyp @ 100-150mg/mL. And I know for sure it was DHB and the advertised concentration because I brewed it myself.
I just recently wrote something similar in another thread. That is why I was asking.

I always assumed these high concentration blends are full of solvents, that is why I never bought them. I should have known better and do my research on this earlier.
I dread the thought of running another blast, just because of the injection volume alone.
 
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Supertest 450mg
....
Would be happy to pin some to prove a point...
Not with your current health issues! Send it to me and I will prove your point for you.

Asking for a friend: Could we get a 400mg Tren (A+C+H) or 300mg Primo (A+E) blend according to this?
My friend is also asking himself if a 250mg oral steroid blend like Adrol/Sdrol/Halo/Dbol/Msten (bonus points for adding Var to it!) would be possible? According to what you wrote it should, or wouldn't it?
 
Not with your current health issues! Send it to me and I will prove your point for you.


My friend is also asking himself if a 250mg oral steroid blend like Adrol/Sdrol/Halo/Dbol/Msten (bonus points for adding Var to it!) would be possible? According to what you wrote it should, or wouldn't it?
So one can die of liver failure?
 
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