estergon

harleyman

New Member
{question for swale}

swale i have a question for you if you dont mind just recieved my blood work back and my test levels were good but my estergon level was way high if i up my nolva to 60 mg a day will that help it ?going to do another estergon check in 3 weeks thanks.
 
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I'm not Swale, but I believe the following:

Novladex acts AS an estrogen, just a very very weak one. It binds to the estrogen receptors stronger than estrogen but has a weaker effect, thus acting as an anti-estrogen. It DOES NOT lower blood levels of estrogen.

If you are taking Nolvadex it will show up on blood test as HIGH LEVELS of estrogen. If you take more Nolvadex, the next test results will show MORE estrogen.
 
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ievb4fun said:
I'm not Swale, but I believe the following:

Novladex acts AS an estrogen, just a very very weak one. It binds to the estrogen receptors stronger than estrogen but has a weaker effect, thus acting as an anti-estrogen. It DOES NOT lower blood levels of estrogen.

If you are taking Nolvadex it will show up on blood test as HIGH LEVELS of estrogen. If you take more Nolvadex, the next test results will show MORE estrogen.
ok ay first i wasnt taking any nolva then after my doc seen my este. was to high he said i need to take it what is the best thing to keep my esteragon down.?thanks for your reply ive never had a problem with esteragon before. i can tell when its too high i feel like crap.
 
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I would definitely wait for a response from someone more knowledgeable than me. I noticed your other post... you are taking .75cc twice a week of test. cyp. and .5cc of HCG twice a week, is this right? I'll assume the test cyp. is 200mg/ml strength, and that the HCG is 10,000iu. From everything I've READ, those high dosages will cause your body to aromatize a lot of testosterone into estrogen. You would need an anti-aromatase drug, like Arimidex or Teslac, not an anti-estrogen drug like Nolvadex, to stop the transformation of Testosterone into Estrogen.

Hopefully Swale will shine a more knowledgeable light on the matter.
 
ievb4fun said:
I would definitely wait for a response from someone more knowledgeable than me. I noticed your other post... you are taking .75cc twice a week of test. cyp. and .5cc of HCG twice a week, is this right? I'll assume the test cyp. is 200mg/ml strength, and that the HCG is 10,000iu. From everything I've READ, those high dosages will cause your body to aromatize a lot of testosterone into estrogen. You would need an anti-aromatase drug, like Arimidex or Teslac, not an anti-estrogen drug like Nolvadex, to stop the transformation of Testosterone into Estrogen.

Hopefully Swale will shine a more knowledgeable light on the matter.
ok thanks bro.
 
IF your dosing is 300mg per week, then you are NOT doing TRT. You are instead doing a steroid cycle, and your doctor is purposefully damaging your health.

If your estrogens are high, then you mUST use an aromatase inhibitor, like Arimidex, NOT a SERM such as Nolvadex. BTW< let your doctor know he cannot get an accurate estrgoen assay while you are using a SERM drug.

Your doctor needs to come to one of my lectures and learn more about how to properly administer TRT for men.
 
SWALE said:
IF your dosing is 300mg per week, then you are NOT doing TRT. You are instead doing a steroid cycle, and your doctor is purposefully damaging your health.

If your estrogens are high, then you mUST use an aromatase inhibitor, like Arimidex, NOT a SERM such as Nolvadex. BTW< let your doctor know he cannot get an accurate estrgoen assay while you are using a SERM drug.

Your doctor needs to come to one of my lectures and learn more about how to properly administer TRT for men.
i understand one thing that is reall starting to bother me is he has me using the hcg and twice a week and clomid 3 times a week i didnt think you were suppose to take those two together im starting to wonder about this guy.so maybe go down to 200mg a week my testost.level were good.ill have a copy of my blood work on monday .thanks for your reply swale i want to get this right .should i stop the nolva ?
 
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If you will conduct yourself as a gentleman, then you are welcome here. But I will not accept such behavior from individuals who have chosen to seek the medical care of someone other than myself, and then expect me to tune up their regimens for them. It would be innappropriate--and dangeous--for me to order changes in medical care without a proper work-up.

Also, you need to appreciate that I am sitting here, on my Saturday night, after working at least 90 hours already this week, answering questions from people I will never meet. Think about it for just a second, then consider a more appropriate response.
 
Gentlemen...

Swale, you know we come here for your advice and we respect your time and the effort you give to monitor these boards. We also benefit when you pass along better knowledge and understanding.

Obviously, Harleyman's physician is not up to speed on TRT, but by passing along proper information to Harleyman, he could enlighten his current doctor.

I see your reason for "I'm not your doctor", but perhaps "I don't know you current situation, nor your complete medical history, so I can not advise you as to what your current protocol should be" might have come across a little less harshly and avoided the aftermath.

Harleyman, you doctor doesn't seem to be very educated on TRT, you might consider finding a new one, or educating yourself as much as possible so that you may share that education with your current physician. If I were in your shoes, I would continue the Nolvadex, since it will keep estrogen side effects to a minimum, UNTIL you have a chance to meet with your doctor and talk with him about an aromatase inhibitor, like Arimidex. If he doesn't understand the difference, I would definitely seek alternative medical care.
 
Your comments are completely innappropriate. Why don't you try working 90 hours per week at whatever you do, then go on to donate another 5-7 hours on top of that just to try to help others, for free? AND spend 8 years of your life becoming a doctor (incurring $162,000 of debt)--which also means learning when to avoid medical liability. I cannot directly make changes in people's treatments who are not my patients. And certainly no one should expect to pay one doctor to mess them up, and then expect me to take over their care for free to straighten them out. And then to get nasty with me for it. GEEESSSHHHH!!!

Or perhaps you would like to sign up to follow along behind me, spending hours each week making sure I am writing every word that can be possibly written for each answer I give?

Keep that in mind the next time you think you have the right to criticize me. I am sometimes amazed at the lack of understanding and appreciation that pops up from time to time.

BTW, as I already said, using the Nolvadex is a mistake. His doctor will not then be able to get a valid estrogen assay, which is imperative for monitoring same. Do not come onto my Board and give bad advice.
 
I'll assume that your above comments were directed towards me, and I'd like to address them.

1) I stated that I understood your reasoning for stating "I'm not your doctor." Meaning that I understood the malpractice considerations that must be taken into consideration with each typed word. My intention was to share another way of communicating that to Harleyman that might have avoided his response.

2) As to the statement "Do not come onto my Board and give bad advice", I point to my first two posts on this thread, which gave the very same advice that your first post shared with us. If that statement was concerning the continuation of Nolvadex treatment, it is usually in a patients best interest to continue a doctor's prescriped treatment until one's doctor has recanted his thinking on that treatment. Bascially, continue all medication until your doctor tells you to stop. Is this not a prudent action?

3) In reference to "I am sometimes amazed at the lack of understanding... that pops up for time to time." Isn't this statement refering to the very need for a TRT forum? This forum is the perfect place to address such lack of understanding. Actually, the lack of understanding is the very reason such a forum exists, otherwise there would be no need for it.

4) I apologize for not properly expressing myself, such that you felt I was critizing you. I wish you the best, and hope that more enjoyable endeavours find you happy and healthy.
 
I will expand on a couple of your points now.

2). I am the physician in residence on this Board, and part of my responsibilities here is to make sure that only the best advice is put out. Granted, this is limited by it being the best advice I can give TODAY--meaning as my experience and expertise grows, so will the value of my advice. What i have to fighrt against are all the so-called "experts" out there who either have no idea what they are talking about (and I do not know you, so certainly am not putting you in that group) or are simply trying to sell drugs (like the infamous Nelson Montana does). I have had several experiences where guys say, for instance, "the usual strating dose for TRT should never be less than 300mg per wek". Not onlky is this three times what it should be, but it also causes all kinds of trouble for anyone who may foillow that lame advice. That is why i must remain the authority here, and Moderate what is posted--in order to protect the health and well-being of the members, which is what this Forum is about.

There are other issues, i.e. the best time of the day to administer GH, where opinions vary considerably. In that case, we just do not really know yet for sure, so there is valid ongoing debate. In such a circumstance, I can only tell what I do, but readily admit there are other ways, as well.

3). When I wrote that, I had just finished responding to a guy who had contacted me thorugh my practice's addy. He felt that since I publish medical advice here and my other HRT Forums to try to help everyone, that I somehow owed him a free personalized medical evaluation. When I told him I could not do that, and if I did I would be doing it all day, every day for others, he got really crappy and insulting to me. This happens about once every other week. You can see how this guy here sounded like that. As I was sitting there on my Saturday night, falling down tired, squinting at the screen through blood-shot eyes (which were partly induced by the Valentine's Day festivities earlier, LOL) still trying to answer a few questions here, harleyman's response really rubbed me the wrong way. I do think sometimes people forget that even though I am hanging out with the Bro's, I am still a practicing Attending Physican, with all the stresses and responsibilities of same. Fortunately, situations like this are the vast exception, so I do not have to show my ass too often. By and large, my work across the four HRT Forums I Moderate are a valued source of relaxation for me, and I always look forward to getting online and hanging out when I can.

4). Yes, I can be a feisty one. If you think that was bad, you would not want to be around when I find out some other doctor has told one of my patients "If you take testosteorne, you will get cancer"! The carnage can be horrific.
 
SWALE said:
I will expand on a couple of your points now.

2). I am the physician in residence on this Board, and part of my responsibilities here is to make sure that only the best advice is put out. Granted, this is limited by it being the best advice I can give TODAY--meaning as my experience and expertise grows, so will the value of my advice. What i have to fighrt against are all the so-called "experts" out there who either have no idea what they are talking about (and I do not know you, so certainly am not putting you in that group) or are simply trying to sell drugs (like the infamous Nelson Montana does). I have had several experiences where guys say, for instance, "the usual strating dose for TRT should never be less than 300mg per wek". Not onlky is this three times what it should be, but it also causes all kinds of trouble for anyone who may foillow that lame advice. That is why i must remain the authority here, and Moderate what is posted--in order to protect the health and well-being of the members, which is what this Forum is about.

There are other issues, i.e. the best time of the day to administer GH, where opinions vary considerably. In that case, we just do not really know yet for sure, so there is valid ongoing debate. In such a circumstance, I can only tell what I do, but readily admit there are other ways, as well.

3). When I wrote that, I had just finished responding to a guy who had contacted me thorugh my practice's addy. He felt that since I publish medical advice here and my other HRT Forums to try to help everyone, that I somehow owed him a free personalized medical evaluation. When I told him I could not do that, and if I did I would be doing it all day, every day for others, he got really crappy and insulting to me. This happens about once every other week. You can see how this guy here sounded like that. As I was sitting there on my Saturday night, falling down tired, squinting at the screen through blood-shot eyes (which were partly induced by the Valentine's Day festivities earlier, LOL) still trying to answer a few questions here, harleyman's response really rubbed me the wrong way. I do think sometimes people forget that even though I am hanging out with the Bro's, I am still a practicing Attending Physican, with all the stresses and responsibilities of same. Fortunately, situations like this are the vast exception, so I do not have to show my ass too often. By and large, my work across the four HRT Forums I Moderate are a valued source of relaxation for me, and I always look forward to getting online and hanging out when I can.

4). Yes, I can be a feisty one. If you think that was bad, you would not want to be around when I find out some other doctor has told one of my patients "If you take testosteorne, you will get cancer"! The carnage can be horrific.

We appreciate your input, even if you are a little "feisty" at times. :)

All men need to be more educated in this area, and trust me, the average family practictioner we might see is not going to even think about our test levels.
 
That is what I am working so hard toward. At least half of all men are sick with hypogonadism by the time they reach the age of fifty. Think of the implications of that.
 
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