Cutting on retatrutide and CJC+Ipamorelin

[Fabee777]

40M doing (recreational, which means to me doing it extremely serious, but without any stage aspirations) bodybuilding for almost 20 years: lifting 4-5 times a week, plus 2 cardio sessions per week (1 LISS and 1 HIIT), and hitting 10-12k daily steps.
That said, I was planning to make my life easier for the upcoming cut phase in order to cut up to (and not more) 10% of my actual BW (87 kg).

The peptide routine I was considering is as follows:

• Retatrutide (titration in 4-week blocks, starting from 0.25 might to check my sensitivity and to slow the process down also considering my actual BF ~15/17%)
• CJC 1295 no DAC + Ipamorelin (to maximise the process and to contrast any lbm loss).

Does the use of CJC 1295+Ipamorelin makes sense in this scenario, or is it just a waste of time and money?

 

[MadMax89]

why not just take HGH

 

[MadMax89]

i did reta but titrated 1 mg each week starting at 1 mg till i reach about 5mg and just cruised on that, did that for about a month and went from 170 to 150 in that span of time.

 

[Fabee777]

why not just take HGH

That's my first time ever and I was considering something "easier" to start. I'll be doing a lot of research, but so many info to read.

 

[MadMax89]

That's my first time ever and I was considering something "easier" to start. I'll be doing a lot of research, but so many info to read.

Compared to just taking GH or IGF-1 your just wasting your money with both of those peptides

 

[rxzed]

Does the use of CJC 1295+Ipamorelin makes sense in this scenario, or is it just a waste of time and money?

Just use HGH, it's going to be much more effective. A lot more data and research on it as well and has a very good risk profile if you monitor IGF and insulin resistance.

 

[AbetheBabe]

Just use HGH, it's going to be much more effective. A lot more data and research on it as well and has a very good risk profile if you monitor IGF and insulin resistance.

I thought without AAS, hgh won’t do shit?

 

[Hulksmash36]

I had great results on 2 months of cjc no dac/ipa 300mcg/300mcg. But i imagine long term high quality hgh is superior

 

[Fabee777]

why not just take HGH

My very first time ever. I just wanted to go with something "easy" before trying the "King".

 

[Fabee777]

I had great results on 2 months of cjc no dac/ipa 300mcg/300mcg. But i imagine long term high quality hgh is superior

That's the plan. Try the stack first, then do the big jump on HGH.

 

[EWIHEWIHEWIH]

40M doing (recreational, which means to me doing it extremely serious, but without any stage aspirations) bodybuilding for almost 20 years: lifting 4-5 times a week, plus 2 cardio sessions per week (1 LISS and 1 HIIT), and hitting 10-12k daily steps.
That said, I was planning to make my life easier for the upcoming cut phase in order to cut up to (and not more) 10% of my actual BW (87 kg).

The peptide routine I was considering is as follows:

• Retatrutide (titration in 4-week blocks, starting from 0.25 might to check my sensitivity and to slow the process down also considering my actual BF ~15/17%)
• CJC 1295 no DAC + Ipamorelin (to maximise the process and to contrast any lbm loss).

Does the use of CJC 1295+Ipamorelin makes sense in this scenario, or is it just a waste of time and money?

Honestly - I agree with others that HGH is more cost effective and can ge tyou there more efficiently. BUT with that comes more work about managing food timing, blood glucose, etc. If you want set it and forget it, run tesamorelin instead. If you want to be actively managing multiple potential sides, then do GH.

This is coming from somebody currently on GH, but has used tesamorelin in the past for quite a stretch of time.

Also - get your natty IGF1 tested before.

 

[Proud Pangolin]

40M doing (recreational, which means to me doing it extremely serious, but without any stage aspirations) bodybuilding for almost 20 years: lifting 4-5 times a week, plus 2 cardio sessions per week (1 LISS and 1 HIIT), and hitting 10-12k daily steps.
That said, I was planning to make my life easier for the upcoming cut phase in order to cut up to (and not more) 10% of my actual BW (87 kg).

The peptide routine I was considering is as follows:

• Retatrutide (titration in 4-week blocks, starting from 0.25 might to check my sensitivity and to slow the process down also considering my actual BF ~15/17%)
• CJC 1295 no DAC + Ipamorelin (to maximise the process and to contrast any lbm loss).

Does the use of CJC 1295+Ipamorelin makes sense in this scenario, or is it just a waste of time and money?

if you take peptides then please Tesa+Ipa. Please read my comments on MK-677 or "why people choose peptides over GH"

 

[Kirbdawg]

40M doing (recreational, which means to me doing it extremely serious, but without any stage aspirations) bodybuilding for almost 20 years: lifting 4-5 times a week, plus 2 cardio sessions per week (1 LISS and 1 HIIT), and hitting 10-12k daily steps.
That said, I was planning to make my life easier for the upcoming cut phase in order to cut up to (and not more) 10% of my actual BW (87 kg).

The peptide routine I was considering is as follows:

• Retatrutide (titration in 4-week blocks, starting from 0.25 might to check my sensitivity and to slow the process down also considering my actual BF ~15/17%)
• CJC 1295 no DAC + Ipamorelin (to maximise the process and to contrast any lbm loss).

Does the use of CJC 1295+Ipamorelin makes sense in this scenario, or is it just a waste of time and money?

Hey! Im 45M. I started Reta on Jan 20 at 317.3lbs. My starting dose was 2mg. I did that for 2 weeks and then moved up to 2.5mg in week 3 and again this week at 2.5mg. In 23 days im down to 302.7lbs.

I originally was going to follow the Triumph trial dosing schedule at 2mg the 1st 4 weeks and then up to 4mg weeks 5-8, 8mg after, and maybe up to 12mg eventually.

After being on it almost a month I think i have decided to stay at 2.5 for now and if the weight loss stalls then i will increase to 3mg and so on. One issue i have been having is Im too low on water and it has caused periodic dehydration. i take blood pressure, adhd, and gout meds too and those also contribute. I drink a ton of water and even got a nice electrolyte powder but i sweat a ton of salt so its an uphill battle for my body. I was losing some muscle mass, which is common on reta. I just started on creatine this week to hopefully add even more water. todays body test went up 3lbs of muscle and i started that Monday night. im happy and will monitor the next while.

I added BPC-157 and TB-500 a week after starting Reta on Jan 27. That has helped keep my inflammation down and worked on healing, etc. I play hockey 2-3x week and lift 3x. I have 2 sm tears in my right rotator cuff, an old rotator tear on the other shoulder, and 1 old knee tear that acts up when it feels like.

Since i have been taking bpc morning and night and tb 2x per week after 2 weeks im starting to feel some difference. The gym has been better and hockey is feeling a lot better.

My next target is the cjc no dac and ipamorelin combo as well. GHK-cu too as a buddy says him and his gf feel great on it. Then i will eventually try the GH Tesamorelin. AI tells me to get down to 250lbs first tho.

.25 seems like a small starting dose but i dont know if there is a bad way. u can always scale it back if u start at 1mg, give or take. or week 2 maybe go up to .50+. just get a 5mg vial, not 10mg if u are starting that low. once the water is in there it is only good for around 4-5 weeks, maybe 5-6. cant remember.

sorry for the rant. im super into learning about all of this right now. sort of fun.

 

[Fabee777]

Hey! Im 45M. I started Reta on Jan 20 at 317.3lbs. My starting dose was 2mg. I did that for 2 weeks and then moved up to 2.5mg in week 3 and again this week at 2.5mg. In 23 days im down to 302.7lbs.

I originally was going to follow the Triumph trial dosing schedule at 2mg the 1st 4 weeks and then up to 4mg weeks 5-8, 8mg after, and maybe up to 12mg eventually.

After being on it almost a month I think i have decided to stay at 2.5 for now and if the weight loss stalls then i will increase to 3mg and so on. One issue i have been having is Im too low on water and it has caused periodic dehydration. i take blood pressure, adhd, and gout meds too and those also contribute. I drink a ton of water and even got a nice electrolyte powder but i sweat a ton of salt so its an uphill battle for my body. I was losing some muscle mass, which is common on reta. I just started on creatine this week to hopefully add even more water. todays body test went up 3lbs of muscle and i started that Monday night. im happy and will monitor the next while.

I added BPC-157 and TB-500 a week after starting Reta on Jan 27. That has helped keep my inflammation down and worked on healing, etc. I play hockey 2-3x week and lift 3x. I have 2 sm tears in my right rotator cuff, an old rotator tear on the other shoulder, and 1 old knee tear that acts up when it feels like.

Since i have been taking bpc morning and night and tb 2x per week after 2 weeks im starting to feel some difference. The gym has been better and hockey is feeling a lot better.

My next target is the cjc no dac and ipamorelin combo as well. GHK-cu too as a buddy says him and his gf feel great on it. Then i will eventually try the GH Tesamorelin. AI tells me to get down to 250lbs first tho.

.25 seems like a small starting dose but i dont know if there is a bad way. u can always scale it back if u start at 1mg, give or take. or week 2 maybe go up to .50+. just get a 5mg vial, not 10mg if u are starting that low. once the water is in there it is only good for around 4-5 weeks, maybe 5-6. cant remember.

sorry for the rant. im super into learning about all of this right now. sort of fun.

Don't apologise for the length of the reply; on the contrary, thank you for the time you spent writing it down! I really appreciate.
At the end I've bought 5mg x 10 vials of Reta and 10mg stacked CJC-1295NoDac&Ipamorelin x 10 vials.

I decided to start on a low dose of Reta to check any possible side effects (already suffering for about 6 months of maintenance insomnia for no reason... Always had a perfect sleep), and I'm titrating it up every month (as suggested by a lot of protocols). Why are you increasing it so fast?

For the stack, instead, my plan is to reach 250mg each in about 2 months. Should I progress quicker?

 

[Fabee777]

if you take peptides then please Tesa+Ipa. Please read my comments on MK-677 or "why people choose peptides over GH"

You know what?! I was reading your replies just a few days ago. For what I've understood, HGH is far superior, but you can't be arsed to control variables and prefer to go for the "easier way" (Tesa+Ipa).
Is it correct?!

 

[Kirbdawg]

Don't apologise for the length of the reply; on the contrary, thank you for the time you spent writing it down! I really appreciate.
At the end I've bought 5mg x 10 vials of Reta and 10mg stacked CJC-1295NoDac&Ipamorelin x 10 vials.

I decided to start on a low dose of Reta to check any possible side effects (already suffering for about 6 months of maintenance insomnia for no reason... Always had a perfect sleep), and I'm titrating it up every month (as suggested by a lot of protocols). Why are you increasing it so fast?

For the stack, instead, my plan is to reach 250mg each in about 2 months. Should I progress quicker?

I think after the 2nd injection I wasnt seeing as much progress as i wanted, even though i read it takes at least 2 weeks to start to work properly.

so i had a talk with my robot and asked what it thought about going to 2.5mg week 3, 3mg week 4, and either 3.5mg or 4mg starting week 5. stay there for a bit.

but then week 3 i dropped big weight. hockey and lots of walking and diet helped a lot. but since my water retention was still such a concern, i was debating on going back to 2mg or stick with 2.5 awhile the next week. thats when i started creatine last Monday. it has helped. i decided to stay at 2.5mg for now and see how it goes the next week or so and go from there.

the most important thing right now is for me to eat enough calories per day and get enough water to stay inside so i dont lose muscle mass.

my body composition test at the gym yesterday was a step in the right direction. i lost 1.5lbs last week and managed to gain 2lbs of muscle back and i dropped 1% body fat.

in 24 days im now down 3% body fat and 17ish lbs.

You bought a great stack. im searching for a cheaper source right now. my guy at the gym has pharma stuff but it is quite pricey. i cant expand my options if i dont go cheaper. i just dont want junk.

what does of reta are u on per week now? i thought you said at the start you hadnt started yet and was going to do .25mg.

Did you mean your goal is 2.5mg per month. not sure what u meant by 250mg each per month.

 

[Fabee777]

I think after the 2nd injection I wasnt seeing as much progress as i wanted, even though i read it takes at least 2 weeks to start to work properly.

so i had a talk with my robot and asked what it thought about going to 2.5mg week 3, 3mg week 4, and either 3.5mg or 4mg starting week 5. stay there for a bit.

but then week 3 i dropped big weight. hockey and lots of walking and diet helped a lot. but since my water retention was still such a concern, i was debating on going back to 2mg or stick with 2.5 awhile the next week. thats when i started creatine last Monday. it has helped. i decided to stay at 2.5mg for now and see how it goes the next week or so and go from there.

the most important thing right now is for me to eat enough calories per day and get enough water to stay inside so i dont lose muscle mass.

my body composition test at the gym yesterday was a step in the right direction. i lost 1.5lbs last week and managed to gain 2lbs of muscle back and i dropped 1% body fat.

in 24 days im now down 3% body fat and 17ish lbs.

You bought a great stack. im searching for a cheaper source right now. my guy at the gym has pharma stuff but it is quite pricey. i cant expand my options if i dont go cheaper. i just dont want junk.

what does of reta are u on per week now? i thought you said at the start you hadnt started yet and was going to do .25mg.

Did you mean your goal is 2.5mg per month. not sure what u meant by 250mg each per month.

I started retatrutide at 250mcg per week. I'll keep as it is for 4 weeks and then I gradually increase by 250. I aim to lose 6 kgs and to get shredded. Stupid choice for such percentage of loss?! Dunno, but I needed to try something different.

 

[Proud Pangolin]

You know what?! I was reading your replies just a few days ago. For what I've understood, HGH is far superior, but you can't be arsed to control variables and prefer to go for the "easier way" (Tesa+Ipa).
Is it correct?!

depends on your goals.
im just going to copy my Response. Especially point number 2 should be relevant for you

ok but why MK-677?



1. of all i dint think that GH bleed is a good idea. Thats why im not using MK677 or CJC WITH DAC. GH i naturally realeased in pulses.

And its one thing to surpress your natural GH release with GH (which doesnt seem to have long term consequemves) and another thing to "raping" you pituitary glad 24/7 to release GH

=> i dont want to get a brain tumor from such a stimulation (mabye thats a little melodramatic but im just saying, thats definetly not good)



Tesamorelin while beeing a lot more expensive achieves the same igf-1 elevation (or even more) but with pulses.



2. pulsative GH release is A LOT more anabolic because systemic (indocrine) igf-1 meaning the igf-1 that we messure in bloodtests isnt anabolic. Autocrine igf-1 (im your cells) is anabolic. Actually higher levers of systemic igf even lower autocrine igf-1.

Which means that you can have a systemic igf-1 score of 300 on Tesamorelin and 400 on HGH and the 300 is still more anabolic. At some point this gets overridden at higher HGH dosages which is why systemic igf-1 doesnt tend to raise any more at dosages higher that 6IU but really anabolic bodybuildig dosages are around 10-15 IU. I have talked about this in other tgreads extensively.



=> so why would you "give up" the main anabolic advantages that peptides have over GH? AND combining it with a major disadvantage of GH: monotoring your bloodsugar.

(And yes on CJC with dac/MK-677 pulsative GH release isnt completely surpressed like on GH but on the other hand there is also a 24/7 GH release while if you take one dosage of GH per day your GH level is only elevated a couple of hours)



3. the bloating: GH generally causes some water rentention. So does Tesmorelin+Ipamorelin (my hands are swolen again). But MK677?? A completely different level. Thats due to the 24/7 GH release.

You feel terrible, ahedonia, your tendons hurt, you look like a puffer fish...

AND dont forget that its not just about bloodsugar. GH isnt anabolic. Igf-1 is. With MK677 GH is elevated all the time, which will also raise igf-1. However for the same reason it raises your glucose tolernace it may be problematic for anabolism in other ways, its a little more complicated.





So to sum this up, as long as you cant afford Tesmorelin+Ipamorelin or GH i really see no point why you woule choose an inferior option.



MK-677 can ne usefull in another way. If you take GH it wont MK677 wont release GH because of the surpression. HOWEVER it will still make you hungry. I "gave" therefore MK677 to somebody im coaching right now so he can eat more during his bulk

 

[Proud Pangolin]

y

40M doing (recreational, which means to me doing it extremely serious, but without any stage aspirations) bodybuilding for almost 20 years: lifting 4-5 times a week, plus 2 cardio sessions per week (1 LISS and 1 HIIT), and hitting 10-12k daily steps.
That said, I was planning to make my life easier for the upcoming cut phase in order to cut up to (and not more) 10% of my actual BW (87 kg).

The peptide routine I was considering is as follows:

• Retatrutide (titration in 4-week blocks, starting from 0.25 might to check my sensitivity and to slow the process down also considering my actual BF ~15/17%)
• CJC 1295 no DAC + Ipamorelin (to maximise the process and to contrast any lbm loss).

Does the use of CJC 1295+Ipamorelin makes sense in this scenario, or is it just a waste of time and money?

you are 40. So your natural igf-1 wont be that high anymore.
The question is, what is your main goal? Real anabolism?
Or just "pushing your natural igf-1 level to the end of the distribution" meaning getting the fat loss and somewhat anabolism of you when beeing younger?

I know basically 90% of meso memebers are all pro GH. However how many of them have actually run a proper peptide protocoll?

Lets say im on cycle (blasting and cruising) and my goal is building as mich muscle as possible. Well the answer is: take 10-12 IU GH. No question.

Then you can say i want more fatloss, getting to a "young" level. And many people run for this 4-6IU. Now technically even 2IU is FAR over a replacement dosages. But rHGH is a lot different to out natural GH so just somehow translating our pulsative GH pulses in a "total per day dosage" is a stupid, useless oversimplification. Especially because we only look at systemic GH which as i always point out IS NOT what actually is of interest for us. But its the only thing we can messure in this context.
=> Now for this pupose peptides are a valid alternative. Some got higher (systemic!) igf-1 levels with peptides than with 4 IU and 6IU HGH and for me subjevtively it also felt more "anabolic"/ effective. And again see my other comment about a 300 systemic level beeing potentially more anabolic than a 400 level.

The thing is this:
-You may take 6IU and your systemic level.is raised only to the top of the distribution

-You may take Tesamorelin and your systemic igf-1 level may be raised to the 98 or 99 percentile (meaning you are in the top 2 or 1%) as about 30% of the persons treated with Tesamorelin in tge study.
DISCLAIMER: this puts you in the unwanted tissue growth reason like with high disages of GH. Doesnt matter if its GH or igf-1, if your igf-1 surpasses a certain level/standarddeviation you will get unwanted tissuegrowth to some extend over time
(Also be aware that in the study Tesamorelin was used on its own. Adding 600mcg Ipamorelin to the 2mg Tesa will potentiate that)

=>Now, the older you get the less you react to GH and to Peptides

You may react bad to GH and good to peptides or the other way around or bad/good to both.

So the best idea would probably be: Messure your igf-1 lever right now, then take Peptides for 2-3 months and see if you are in the ramge you want to be. If not try tge same with GH.

If you want max. anabolism you go with high dosage of GH however at 40 TRT would probably be the prefered option in that case anyways


(some people also choose 8IU which im my opiniom puts you somewhat in nonmen terrretorium. Systemic igf-1 (whivh is what causes unwanted tissue growth so actually we dont want that at all) wont get raised further at around 6IU to 8IU. So at 8IU most of us will get alle the unwanted tissue growth risks without the additional anabolism at 12 IU (autocrine (intracellular) igf-1 continues to raise even after 6IU) so in my opinion not a good choice).

I hope this helpes a little bit and you arent more confused than before

 

[Fabee777]

depends on your goals.
im just going to copy my Response. Especially point number 2 should be relevant for you

ok but why MK-677?



1. of all i dint think that GH bleed is a good idea. Thats why im not using MK677 or CJC WITH DAC. GH i naturally realeased in pulses.

And its one thing to surpress your natural GH release with GH (which doesnt seem to have long term consequemves) and another thing to "raping" you pituitary glad 24/7 to release GH

=> i dont want to get a brain tumor from such a stimulation (mabye thats a little melodramatic but im just saying, thats definetly not good)



Tesamorelin while beeing a lot more expensive achieves the same igf-1 elevation (or even more) but with pulses.



2. pulsative GH release is A LOT more anabolic because systemic (indocrine) igf-1 meaning the igf-1 that we messure in bloodtests isnt anabolic. Autocrine igf-1 (im your cells) is anabolic. Actually higher levers of systemic igf even lower autocrine igf-1.

Which means that you can have a systemic igf-1 score of 300 on Tesamorelin and 400 on HGH and the 300 is still more anabolic. At some point this gets overridden at higher HGH dosages which is why systemic igf-1 doesnt tend to raise any more at dosages higher that 6IU but really anabolic bodybuildig dosages are around 10-15 IU. I have talked about this in other tgreads extensively.



=> so why would you "give up" the main anabolic advantages that peptides have over GH? AND combining it with a major disadvantage of GH: monotoring your bloodsugar.

(And yes on CJC with dac/MK-677 pulsative GH release isnt completely surpressed like on GH but on the other hand there is also a 24/7 GH release while if you take one dosage of GH per day your GH level is only elevated a couple of hours)



3. the bloating: GH generally causes some water rentention. So does Tesmorelin+Ipamorelin (my hands are swolen again). But MK677?? A completely different level. Thats due to the 24/7 GH release.

You feel terrible, ahedonia, your tendons hurt, you look like a puffer fish...

AND dont forget that its not just about bloodsugar. GH isnt anabolic. Igf-1 is. With MK677 GH is elevated all the time, which will also raise igf-1. However for the same reason it raises your glucose tolernace it may be problematic for anabolism in other ways, its a little more complicated.





So to sum this up, as long as you cant afford Tesmorelin+Ipamorelin or GH i really see no point why you woule choose an inferior option.



MK-677 can ne usefull in another way. If you take GH it wont MK677 wont release GH because of the surpression. HOWEVER it will still make you hungry. I "gave" therefore MK677 to somebody im coaching right now so he can eat more during his bulk

My goal is to optimise rest (which was great since 6 months ago, not totally screwed up for no reason), recovery, anti-aging and, while using testo, eventually boosting/supporting its effect.
You mentioned MK677 and CJC-1295 With Dac and their continuous GH dtimulation. However, I've been using the No-Dac version...