ANYONE RENT Micheal Moores 9/11 movie?

[jbiggs]

and it will be tough luck for the US when iraqi terrorists and al-queda re-cruits many more fathers whose children were killed by our bombs. that is going to be tough luck.

Maybe we should all have a summit followed by a group hug!

 

[jbiggs]

true....but the part you are not getting is that germany was a significant threat where as iraq is not.

At one time OBL wasn't a threat either, he had the capacity (money and means)and pledged Jihad on the US just like Saddam did. Had we taken out OBL when we had the chance maybe 9/11 wouldn't have happened.

I'm out

 

[Alphamale23]

oh god....here comes frosty logic again. "well uhhh if a guy has a knife and he is stabbing someone to death then goes after the cop is it OK for the cop to shoot him"

dont worry if one cops testiment to that rule isnt enough for you i will call up another cop from a different jurisdiction. will u believe me then?? 2 cops enough for you?

 

[Alphamale23]

here comes more frosty logic.....that i would lie to convince someone who i dont know...or will ever know. i have no gain here, i had a resource and i asked him. if i was wrong i would have just stopped posting.

 

[Alphamale23]

wtf r u serious?? u couldnt detect any sarcasm in that statement? hahaha.
ok back to u.....if the person was "pretending" to stab someone with a "pretend" knife (by pretend here i mean no knife at all, just a motion of stabbing), would the cop be allowed to shoot him?

 

[Alphamale23]

i asked him to tell me what would happen in situation X. no tricks, plain and simple.

 

[Alphamale23]

damn this kind of reminds me of the seinfeld episode "the contest" where jerry and george are the last ones left and jerry says " and then there were 2" hah

 

[Alphamale23]

here are those reports airborne was ranting about (at least i hope these are them since these are the only credible ones) sorry to call u on such an obvious fallacy bud.

The CIA report, like the 911 report, and the David Kay report, and the UN report, and the Bremer report, and every other credible report that has been done on the subject says that saddam had no WMDs, no capacity to make WMDs, and no ties to Al Quaida or 911. Nevertheless, Dick ("I never met you before tonight") Cheney and George ("I did everything I could to love her") Bush say that the report says that there were WMDs, the capacity for WMDs, and ties to Al Quaida and 911.

 

[Bob Smith]

some things shouldn't be ingored like allowing binladns family to leave the country. no need for editing there to make it look bad for bush.

Forgive me if someone else commented on this (I havent read the whole thread yet), but thats a bad arguement for a number of reasons. The 9/11 Commission declared that no "wanted" people left the country. No political favors were granted. No flights left the country before all air traffic was opened up. And the guy that did make the decision to let those people fly was a democrat (cant think of his name, he published a book earlier this year). Its just not a valid arguement and has no merit for anything. Besides that, all reports show that the vast majority of the Bin Laden family despise Osama and denounce his motives and agenda.

 

[boomr]

i will solve this cop shooting thing right now.....from 10 years of past personal first hand experience. Whether a cop shoots someone or not, it depends on the totallity of the circumstances and knowledge known to the officer at the time of the incident. monday morning quarterbacking can not legally come into play, only what is known at the time. Now this still leaves alot of things that can happen, depending on the circumstances. just making a motion at a cop, even if you had your hand in your pocket is not grounds for shooting him if you had no information that he had a gun prior to that point. there is a rule cops are taught when they go through firearms training...shoot what you know, not what you think you know. And never let your fear make the decision for you. now if someone pulls out a shiny gun shaped item and points it at the cop, and say they had information that this guy had robbed someone at gunpoint a few minutes before, if a cop believed it was a gun in the dark in that split second...then they would have a hard time getting him in trouble. totallity of the circumstances. if he pulled out a fake gun, bb gun, etc.....points it at the cop, he is bought and paid for. his choice, not the cops and though the cop has to live with what happens ( it would suck if it was a fake gun), the cop has to do what is in the best interest of his and others safety. there was an example given of just pulling your hand out, without a gun, and if the cop shot him without seeing a weapon.....i would say he would be hosed. bad call on the cops part. you have to be able to make good split second decisions, but many let fear rule their mind. don't, getting shot will most likely not kill you. in fact, 90 % of gunshot victims never die. many of those that do, do so because they mentally think that it is inevitable and just give up fighting. now that doesn't take into account multiple gunshots, blood lose (main cause of death), head wounds, etc.

 

[Bob Smith]

hahaha frosty u make me laugh. "EVERYONE thought he had WMD" hahaha. wow. thats why we had "real allies" right? thats why so many countries told us NOT to invade right?

Oh, you mean the nations that had huge financial interests that would be lost if we went to war? Or the ones that were receiving other financial rewards for doing business in Iraq? Much evidence is coming to light about the Oil for Food program and how corrupt it was and how much countries like France and Germany benefitted from illegal transactions.

To use a similar arguement to what you continually use...go back to watching CBS for your news.

 

[Bob Smith]

oh and by the way...i happen to know a little bit about law enforcement frosty. if a criminal "pretends" to pull out a gun (actually not having any gun in his hand) and the cop shoots him it IS the cops fault. WOW again...keep trying with the examples tho

Most court cases say the exact opposite of what you said. If a cop feels threatened and a criminal appears to be pulling out a weapon, the courts have said the the cop is justified in shooting him.

 

[Kayz]

....and lets not forget that it was Richard Clark (you know, the guy who did jack shit to stop terrorism under Clinton and got pissed at Bush when he was demoted) who authorized the release of other Bin Ladens WITHOUT the Presidents knowledge. He testified to this in the 9/11 Commission.

 

[Kayz]

...and if a cop does defend himself, he is often times labelled as a racist!!!

 

[Bob Smith]

here are those reports airborne was ranting about (at least i hope these are them since these are the only credible ones) sorry to call u on such an obvious fallacy bud.

The CIA report, like the 911 report, and the David Kay report, and the UN report, and the Bremer report, and every other credible report that has been done on the subject says that saddam had no WMDs, no capacity to make WMDs, and no ties to Al Quaida or 911.

Its nice to cite reports conducted AFTER THE FACT! Hindsight is 20/20. I could say "well, you should have invested $10k in GE back in 1938, youd be a billionaire by now." No f*cking shit, its because you have information NOW that you didnt have THEN. Same thing goes with the intelligence used to support going to war in Iraq.

Shit, why am I even attempting to explain this to you? You obviously have a total lack of understanding about information and timelines.

 

[Alphamale23]

i can tell you with absolute confidence that i am right in this shooting case. i have family members that are lawyers and would be glad to call them and ask for a second opinion but then of course i would be called a liar.
if someone else wants to call a lawyer and tell him exactly this story and get his opinion more power to you.

 

[Alphamale23]

whoa wait a sec. no need to get all upset we are just discussing here.
and i am not the one with a flaw and lack of understanding. it is you and people like you who believe that it is cowardly to admit that you are wrong. of course those reports came out after, where is that complicated?
and back to your point....that we didnt know that then. well if we are going to war, shouldnt we KNOW what is going on and not just guess?

 

[Alphamale23]

haha by the way...i dont have to watch only CBS. i can watch ABC, CNN, read the news, read the reports. all you have is fox news so i guess that makes that a null point

 

[Kayz]

whoa wait a sec. no need to get all upset we are just discussing here.
and i am not the one with a flaw and lack of understanding. it is you and people like you who believe that it is cowardly to admit that you are wrong. of course those reports came out after, where is that complicated?
and back to your point....that we didnt know that then. well if we are going to war, shouldnt we KNOW what is going on and not just guess?

...but can you honestly say that we "guessed" about Iraq?? French, German, Russian, US, Israeli, Australian, and even UN intelligence all said that SAddam possessed these weapons.

John Kerry and John Edwards both said that Saddam had them and that he posed a serious threat to the US and that he must be dealt with immediately!!!

So how can you make the assumption that Bush "guessed"???

 

[Alphamale23]

thats an easy answer. because he didnt have them. if he did have them and we attacked then we would not have guessed........