8 weeks into 600mg test e cycle. (And preparations for the next cycle)

[upandcoming]

I’m in the prime growing phase and I feel great
This is my second cycle
People already tell me I look huge (I don’t feel that way lol) and the steroid accusations are flying in
I use an AI when my head feels full or if my balls start to hurt.
I had higher blood pressure in the first week of the cycle but it magically disappeared.
I try to get 200g protein daily and rely on whst isolate for half of these grams

I will run 700mg test e and 400mg deca after my cruise phase when I finish this cycle.

I’vebeen researching on different AAS and im looking into MENT, the only factor that is putting me off is the way that the methylated e2 is 3 times stronger than e2.

Overall 10/10 results already and I can’t wait for the next 8 weeks of the cycle.

 

[upandcoming]

I’m debating whether I should throw away the deca and run MENT instead

 

[Raiders789]

Hell yeah bro, I'm 3 weeks into my second cycle too(500 test 150npp) and feel awesome.

I've heard that MENT is one of the worst for high E2 sides, so if you need an AI on 600 test there's a chance(not saying it would but) MENT could fuck you up. I've gone up to 525 test and it had my E2 at 60; had a little bit of water retention but felt great on that with no AI. When I first started test I went overboard with the AI and crashed my E2 which just sucks to go though. So I've just found its better to not fuck with AIs, I feel like MENT could make that whole balancing act so much harder.

But lowkey if you feel great on that dose of test why not just increase the test? You'd get the same amount of gains but wouldn't have to deal with crazy E2 sides. Or maybe, if you run 700 test 400 deca, throw in some EQ or primo to control E2? I stocked up on a bunch of primal's primo so I'm gonna be using a fuck ton of that on my next cycle.

I think you'd like deca, I just started NPP and can already feel the joint benefits. Also(not sure if it's the nandrolone) I've just been in a better mood lately, it almost feels like it takes some of the anger out of high test doses which I am prone to. But good luck with the next cycle bro!

 

[upandcoming]

Hell yeah bro, I'm 3 weeks into my second cycle too(500 test 150npp) and feel awesome.

I've heard that MENT is one of the worst for high E2 sides, so if you need an AI on 600 test there's a chance(not saying it would but) MENT could fuck you up. I've gone up to 525 test and it had my E2 at 60; had a little bit of water retention but felt great on that with no AI. When I first started test I went overboard with the AI and crashed my E2 which just sucks to go though. So I've just found its better to not fuck with AIs, I feel like MENT could make that whole balancing act so much harder.

But lowkey if you feel great on that dose of test why not just increase the test? You'd get the same amount of gains but wouldn't have to deal with crazy E2 sides. Or maybe, if you run 700 test 400 deca, throw in some EQ or primo to control E2? I stocked up on a bunch of primal's primo so I'm gonna be using a fuck ton of that on my next cycle.

I think you'd like deca, I just started NPP and can already feel the joint benefits. Also(not sure if it's the nandrolone) I've just been in a better mood lately, it almost feels like it takes some of the anger out of high test doses which I am prone to. But good luck with the next cycle bro!

Thank you so much bro, also your cycle will be great because NPP saturates so quickly .

Anyways the reason for not increasing the testosterone is really diminishing returns for more side effects (lipids, hematocrit, BP) and the reason I want to choose MENT is because of the potent anabolic effects and my hematocrit is so sensitive which prevents me from running EQ , primo is too weak imo.

Im also surprised you have a better mood when on NPP but it’s probably because you’re running it at a great ratio with test.

 

[Raiders789]

Anyways the reason for not increasing the testosterone is really diminishing returns for more side effects (lipids, hematocrit, BP) and the reason I want to choose MENT is because of the potent anabolic effects and my hematocrit is so sensitive which prevents me from running EQ , primo is too weak imo.

Yea totally get that, just finished a test/primo cycle and absolutely wrecked my HDL; thats why im running NPP now. I'm lucky, I've never had hematocrit/bp issues, for me it's just HDL and both primo and anavar absolutely tank it. My solution has just been to keep my LDL down with ezetimibe/rosuvistatin, even on the test+npp my HDL is at 30 but as long as I can keep my apoB at 40 I'm not concerned.

Planning a big next cycle where I'm gonna run high dose primo + var, and I'll just accept the low HDL. But maybe I'll start looking into MENT too, ngl I haven't really heard much about that compound besides the fact that it's hella estrogenic.

 

[ChemBB]

Please read my 2 posts in the Trest thread about the E2 myth

1. Trestalone experiences?

2. https://thinksteroids.com/community/threads/trestalone-experiences.134430614/post-3541762

 

[Jaxino]

I’m in the prime growing phase and I feel great
This is my second cycle
People already tell me I look huge (I don’t feel that way lol) and the steroid accusations are flying in
I use an AI when my head feels full or if my balls start to hurt.
I had higher blood pressure in the first week of the cycle but it magically disappeared.
I try to get 200g protein daily and rely on whst isolate for half of these grams

I will run 700mg test e and 400mg deca after my cruise phase when I finish this cycle.

I’vebeen researching on different AAS and im looking into MENT, the only factor that is putting me off is the way that the methylated e2 is 3 times stronger than e2.

Overall 10/10 results already and I can’t wait for the next 8 weeks of the cycle.

To be frank, I would refrain from employing either Deca or MENT, and instead opt for a regimen of Testosterone combined with EQ or Primobolan—though, given the current circumstances with Chinese raw materials, I would personally avoid the latter. To this foundation, the addition of 5 IU of HGH would be advisable.

Ultimately, when the goal is hypertrophy, nutrition holds primacy; pharmacology merely follows, with the total milligrams of anabolic agents determining the ceiling.

Once one approaches 2–3 grams of total AAS, the physiological capacity is already being pushed to its absolute limit.

Introducing 19-nors tends only to burden the athlete with a host of troublesome and undesirable side effects.

 

[ChemBB]

Once one approaches 2–3 grams of total AAS, the physiological capacity is already being pushed to its absolute limit.

That's a very reductionist and pseudo-scientific statement.

If you want to talk about physiological capacity in terms of solely Androgen Receptor saturation, yes, ~1.1g Test (steady-state dosing) would provide ~90% AR occupancy.

We can extrapolate this from free testosterone values in the Bhasin et al study w/ 600mg Test, and pharmacological data on the AR.

What we want to calculate is the "dissociation constant" (Kd) multiplier for 90% occupancy. Kd represents the ligand concentration at which 50% of receptors are occupied.

Stripping all the math-gibberish and putting it in pseudo-code plain english, you can model it as:

# Receptor occupancy model:
occupancy_theta = free_ligand_concentration / (free_ligand_concentration + dissociation_constant_Kd)

free_ligand_needed = (target_occupancy_theta * dissociation_constant_Kd) / (1 - target_occupancy_theta)

fn compute_required_free_testosterone_nM(
    target_receptor_occupancy_theta,    # e.g., 0.90 for 90% occupancy
    ligand_dissociation_constant_Kd_nM  # e.g., 0.5 nM for testosterone <-> AR
) -> number
    required_free_testosterone_nM =
        (target_receptor_occupancy_theta * ligand_dissociation_constant_Kd_nM) /
        (1 - target_receptor_occupancy_theta)

    return required_free_testosterone_nM

let androgen_receptor_Kd_for_testosterone_nM = 0.5
let target_occupancy_ninety_percent = 0.90

let fold_over_Kd_90 = compute_fold_over_Kd(target_occupancy_ninety_percent)

let required_free_T_90_nM = compute_required_free_testosterone_nM(
    target_occupancy_ninety_percent,
    androgen_receptor_Kd_for_testosterone_nM)

# required_free_T_90_nM = 9 × 0.5 nM = 4.5 nM

Then you wind up with something like ~1.1g Test to saturate 90% AR.

But this is ONLY the AR.

AAS also work via the Glucocorticoid Receptor, the Progesterone Receptor, have non-genomic actions which can't be modeled via receptor occupancy at all

And then you have AAS which have unique mechanisms-of-action, like Oxymetholone and Stanazolol, and don't bind to the AR at all...

 

[ChemBB]

All that is to say:

Once you've maxed AR receptor occupancy, your only choice for further anabolism is to target GR/PR (e.g., 19-Nor's) or push other compounds like GH/Slin

 

[Jaxino]

That's a very reductionist and pseudo-scientific statement.

If you want to talk about physiological capacity in terms of solely Androgen Receptor saturation, yes, ~1.1g Test (steady-state dosing) would provide ~90% AR occupancy.

We can extrapolate this from free testosterone values in the Bhasin et al study w/ 600mg Test, and pharmacological data on the AR.

What we want to calculate is the "dissociation constant" (Kd) multiplier for 90% occupancy. Kd represents the ligand concentration at which 50% of receptors are occupied.

Stripping all the math-gibberish and putting it in pseudo-code plain english, you can model it as:

# Receptor occupancy model:
occupancy_theta = free_ligand_concentration / (free_ligand_concentration + dissociation_constant_Kd)

free_ligand_needed = (target_occupancy_theta * dissociation_constant_Kd) / (1 - target_occupancy_theta)

fn compute_required_free_testosterone_nM(
    target_receptor_occupancy_theta,    # e.g., 0.90 for 90% occupancy
    ligand_dissociation_constant_Kd_nM  # e.g., 0.5 nM for testosterone <-> AR
) -> number
    required_free_testosterone_nM =
        (target_receptor_occupancy_theta * ligand_dissociation_constant_Kd_nM) /
        (1 - target_receptor_occupancy_theta)

    return required_free_testosterone_nM

let androgen_receptor_Kd_for_testosterone_nM = 0.5
let target_occupancy_ninety_percent = 0.90

let fold_over_Kd_90 = compute_fold_over_Kd(target_occupancy_ninety_percent)

let required_free_T_90_nM = compute_required_free_testosterone_nM(
    target_occupancy_ninety_percent,
    androgen_receptor_Kd_for_testosterone_nM)

# required_free_T_90_nM = 9 × 0.5 nM = 4.5 nM

Then you wind up with something like ~1.1g Test to saturate 90% AR.

But this is ONLY the AR.

AAS also work via the Glucocorticoid Receptor, the Progesterone Receptor, have non-genomic actions which can't be modeled via receptor occupancy at all

And then you have AAS which have unique mechanisms-of-action, like Oxymetholone and Stanazolol, and don't bind to the AR at all...

My friend, all this so-called ‘science’ proves largely irrelevant in the realm of bodybuilding.
The reality is that 2–3 grams are precisely what the vast majority—indeed, ninety percent—of coaches and professionals employ.
Simply listen to Justin Harris or even Scooby Prep.
I have personally spoken with four or five professionals in my country, and they all remain within that very range. The one using less is still with Patrick Tuor.

Bodybuilding, in truth, is exceedingly straightforward: no one concerns themselves with the theoretical science to which you refer, bodybuilding is not founded upon science at all.

 

[ChemBB]

I have personally spoken with four or five professionals in my country, and they all remain within that very range. The one using less is still with Patrick Tuor.

Doing something for a long time != sound reasoning or optimal results.

"If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said 'Faster Horses!'" - Henry Ford

I'm not arguing that taking 3g of Test doesn't work.
Pouring 5 gallons into a 2-gallon bucket will still fill the bucket up.

 

[Slowww]

Ment has nothing to do with e2. AI will not affect it. Stick to compounds you at least have a working understanding about.

Before you start getting crazy with gear it sounds like your diet needs to be fixed. 200g protein with 100g from powder is really a bit silly for someone who plans to blast over a gram of gear for the third cycle.

 

[upandcoming]

Ment has nothing to do with e2. AI will not affect it. Stick to compounds you at least have a working understanding about.

I know it increases 7a-me2 it was a mistake on my part and I have a full understanding of this compound.

Before you start getting crazy with gear it sounds like your diet needs to be fixed. 200g protein with 100g from powder is really a bit silly for someone who plans to blast over a gram of gear for the third cycle.

Explain why this is silly. Protein intake is protein intake.

 

[Slowww]

I know it increases 7a-me2 it was a mistake on my part and I have a full understanding of this compound.

Explain why this is silly. Protein intake is protein intake.

Nutrient diversity is better for overall health. Using grams of gear will be negative for your health so you would want to try to support health where you can. Different proteins give different vitamins, minerals and amino acids, which are important for muscle growth as well. It’s going to lead to better gut health, and cardiac health than just abusing protein powder. If you’re only eating 2 proteins there is also a chance for an allergy to form over time. I know someone like this who cannot eat certain meats because they didn’t vary protein. Even some body builders have this condition due to long term use of chicken as a protein source.

Of course it is easy to drink whey for half your intake, but over time there are some pretty serious potential problems. What happens when you also have to eat 300g protein, it’s potentially going to expedite those problems or exacerbate gut problems (even if you don’t necessarily have them now) because body building is a long term endeavor.