High Test Versus Low Test Cycles

[Nick_Vaz]

Wanted to get a gauge on peoples experiences running cycles with high test / low additional anabolics and visa versa. In particular experiences with Npp, Primo/EQ, and mast. Wondering whether its worth running test just over TRT levels and adding in these compounds or just sprinkling them on top of a generous test base. I know everyone is different and cycles should be built upon bloodwork but I am curious the experiences others have had.

In addition to this I know oral are generally frowned upon but I often either hear of their use as "kickstarters" or "finishers" have any of yall had any experiences with either or and why do you feel your way works best.

 

[rebornmuscles]

Hi bro,
Like you say it's individual, like if someone take 500mg test and his estrogen hit the roof, high dht, prostate growth... well this guy need less test but higher of other compounds, another guy take 2g test and low dosahe of other compounds without any problem at all, it's very individual you have to make bloodcheck and see what works for you

 

[Psychokoak]

I tried mostly
-1.6gr of testosterone alone with a bit of exemestan
- 500 test 500 primo 600 mast
- 300 test 400 npp
And other and other lol

Currently I am doing 900mg of test and 1000mg of primo. Leave the possibility of seeing what primo really gives in high doses.

In fact I like a high testo because I tolerate it well. No sides from test.

But alone I lose what's interest in other steroids. The DHT derivated gives an interesting cosmetic gain honestly.
Npp gives an interesting muscle size too.

There is no perfect solution or ratio, as said above, choose a testosterone level that is manageable for you and fill the gap if necessary with others.
And if you tolerate 2gr of testosterone then you could do with just that to build muscle.

 

[rebornmuscles]

I tried mostly
-1.6gr of testosterone alone with a bit of exemestan
- 500 test 500 primo 600 mast
- 300 test 400 npp
And other and other lol

Currently I am doing 900mg of test and 1000mg of primo. Leave the possibility of seeing what primo really gives in high doses.

In fact I like a high testo because I tolerate it well. No sides from test.

But alone I lose what's interest in other steroids. The DHT derivated gives an interesting cosmetic gain honestly.
Npp gives an interesting muscle size too.

There is no perfect solution or ratio, as said above, choose a testosterone level that is manageable for you and fill the gap if necessary with others.
And if you tolerate 2gr of testosterone then you could do with just that to build muscle.

I see your point, anyway you seems to tolerate high dose testosterone but you need to check your estrogen because too low or too high isn't the right thing to grow, primobolan lower your estrogen, for me i will try this (my opinion) :
Bulking : high test, low DHB
Cutting : high test, medium masteron, medium primo
If you tolerate orals maybe some oxandrolone(anavar) pre-workout

 

[Psychokoak]

I see your point, anyway you seems to tolerate high dose testosterone but you need to check your estrogen because too low or too high isn't the right thing to grow, primobolan lower your estrogen, for me i will try this (my opinion) :
Bulking : high test, low DHB
Cutting : high test, medium masteron, medium primo
If you tolerate orals maybe some oxandrolone(anavar) pre-workout

In fact in all my cycles I aim for 50 to 70pg for my e2.

So my "ratios" are made to achieve this And it's true that I have a lot of tries to find where I felt good without sides.
I can do 500mg of test without exemestan and have my e2 at 70-80pg without any problem. But it doesn't interest me anymore now I don't really progress with so little.

I don't tolerate well any oral on the other hand.
Anadrol gives me a 170/110 blood pressure and blue skin like a smurf
Anavar gives me heart burn and acne.

But I tolerate the injectables test / mast / primo / npp. My lipids are OK. No acne. No hair loss. No nipple sensitivity.
(but over time I gained hair all over my back. I have the same density as pubic hair now lol)

That's me. We are all different and as you said very well everything must be done according to his bloodwork.

 

[rebornmuscles]

In fact in all my cycles I aim for 50 to 70pg for my e2.

So my "ratios" are made to achieve this And it's true that I have a lot of tries to find where I felt good without sides.
I can do 500mg of test without exemestan and have my e2 at 70-80pg without any problem. But it doesn't interest me anymore now I don't really progress with so little.

I don't tolerate well any oral on the other hand.
Anadrol gives me a 170/110 blood pressure and blue skin like a smurf
Anavar gives me heart burn and acne.

But I tolerate the injectables test / mast / primo / npp. My lipids are OK. No acne. No hair loss. No nipple sensitivity.
(but over time I gained hair all over my back. I have the same density as pubic hair now lol)

That's me. We are all different and as you said very well everything must be done according to his bloodwork.

You have hgh to your protocol ?
If not it can be a good thing to add it
After that if food, training are okay you don't have much more to go, maybe try some parabolan low dose too personally i prefer hard training and diet over peds but ofc simple molecules combination always give results, i am not a fan of high dose because i evolve fast with good health

 

[Psychokoak]

You have hgh to your protocol ?
If not it can be a good thing to add it
After that if food, training are okay you don't have much more to go, maybe try some parabolan low dose too personally i prefer hard training and diet over peds but ofc simple molecules combination always give results, i am not a fan of high dose because i evolve fast with good health

10ui yes.

I tried tren hex, 15 days. But even with 100mg my body odor was unbearable for me... I threw everything in the trash.

But I don't need it in the end and don't need more. I'm doing very well with what I have and thank god everything is simple for me. And in a "healthy" way.

I still think that in the use of harsh compound as tren a low test base is better. The tren will take up all the space and so you just need a test base at a physiological level.

 

[AIRBORNE DADDY]

Theres lots of guys run just 200 test as a base and build a cycle on top of that. When i started it was always 500mg test and then whatever. Big Paul (havent seen him around other than 8 years ago) told me if ur doing tren, let that do the work, keep the tren higher then the test.... so 200mg test/300mg tren was perfect for me.

 

[rebornmuscles]

10ui yes.

I tried tren hex, 15 days. But even with 100mg my body odor was unbearable for me... I threw everything in the trash.

But I don't need it in the end and don't need more. I'm doing very well with what I have and thank god everything is simple for me. And in a "healthy" way.

I still think that in the use of harsh compound as tren a low test base is better. The tren will take up all the space and so you just need a test base at a physiological level.

10ui that's nice, how many times you divide it ?
I use 4 ui daily, maybe up to 8ui on blast, i will use 4 ui IM post training and 4ui before bed time

I like para or Tren in cutting for the anticatabolic effect but in low dose like 10mg a day,

I like the test base + high tren idea
Personally i need more test than Tren, or i have 0 energy, when i was competing i try it 1 time only

I see a lot of people use insulin to evolve faster but Personally i don't take the risk even with low dose Lantus

 

[Psychokoak]

10ui that's nice, how many times you divide it ?
I use 4 ui daily, maybe up to 8ui on blast, i will use 4 ui IM post training and 4ui before bed time

I like para or Tren in cutting for the anticatabolic effect but in low dose like 10mg a day,

I like the test base + high tren idea
Personally i need more test than Tren, or i have 0 energy, when i was competing i try it 1 time only

I see a lot of people use insulin to evolve faster but Personally i don't take the risk even with low dose Lantus

5ui AM and 5ui PM most of the time. Sometimes I'm lazy on day off so I do 10ui before bedtime.
But it took me 8 months to get 10ui without any problem.

Everything has to be adapted according to your own body. And your tolerance to sides (I have none, I hate feeling like I'm on ped's)

 

[2ndchancesNK]

I’m a big fan of running test at the highest mg compound in a cycle. My cycles will likely stay the same for the time being, although I would like to eventually give EQ a try. Right now the bread and butter is Test/Mast/NPP with 4-6iu HGH and if I’m feeling adventurous, I’ll throw in 25-50mg Anavar at some point, usually at the end.

Test ranges from 500-750mg
Masteron ranges from 300-500mg
NPP ranges from 150-300mg

As test climbs from 500mg to 750mg, the other compounds go up in dosage as well. I only use this scheme for bulks.

When cutting, I might run something like Test/Mast at 400mg/300mg, dropping NPP and cutting dosages significantly. I don’t believe in pushing high mg anabolics for cutting and think it’s a waste.

 

[2ndchancesNK]

10ui yes.

I tried tren hex, 15 days. But even with 100mg my body odor was unbearable for me... I threw everything in the trash.

But I don't need it in the end and don't need more. I'm doing very well with what I have and thank god everything is simple for me. And in a "healthy" way.

I still think that in the use of harsh compound as tren a low test base is better. The tren will take up all the space and so you just need a test base at a physiological level.

Missed this post, but I was considering giving Tren a try for my summer cutting cycle. Maybe something like 10-20mg ED of a fast acting ester to stack with the Test/Mast.

Everybody says Test/Mast/Tren is a monster cycle worth trying. My only concern is I know I can’t run a progestin like NPP over 300mg for any noteworthy period of time without getting some type of mental sides, even with a DHT like Mast in.

 

[Psychokoak]

When cutting, I might run something like Test/Mast at 400mg/300mg, dropping NPP and cutting dosages significantly. I don’t believe in pushing high mg anabolics for cutting and think it’s a waste.

I see things the same way. Happy to not be the only one !

I still have fewer ped's in cutting phase. Just enough to have an anti-catabolic effect. And maybe a cosmetic effect with masteron (but I don't care about the cosmetic effect, I'm focused on lean mass tissu)
Everything else comes from maintaining perfomance and training loads as long as possible and adjusting with food or rest.

I don't do aggressive mini cuts anymore either. Too much loss of strength and muscle related to that. And it doesn't require a lot of mg of ped's in that way indeed.

 

[eery]

anecdotally, high is superior for gaining muscle. Cutting, do what gives you the best look and supports your performance and recovery the best.

 

[2ndchancesNK]

I see things the same way. Happy to not be the only one !

I still have fewer ped's in cutting phase. Just enough to have an anti-catabolic effect. And maybe a cosmetic effect with masteron (but I don't care about the cosmetic effect, I'm focused on lean mass tissu)
Everything else comes from maintaining perfomance and training loads as long as possible and adjusting with food or rest.

I don't do aggressive mini cuts anymore either. Too much loss of strength and muscle related to that. And it doesn't require a lot of mg of ped's in that way indeed.

Absolutely — no need for crazy dosages on a cut. The 300-500mg range for test seems to be more than enough to avoid any catabolism. And yes, I keep that Masteron in because its cosmetic effects at a lower bf% have shown to be profound for me.

Mast is my favorite compound hands down. Feel amazing and look amazing on it in both a cutting and bulking context. It evens me out when throwing in that NPP and manages those e2 sides from the higher test with minimal AI use or even any at all.

I wish I was like my friend who runs Test/Deca or NPP at the 750-1000mg/400-600mg range and feels great, but unfortunately that’s not me. Higher nandrolone with just test is a bad mix with my ADHD. I’m just way too neurotic and off the walls taking nothing at all haha so I’m always careful with the progestins.

 

[rebornmuscles]

I see things the same way. Happy to not be the only one !

I still have fewer ped's in cutting phase. Just enough to have an anti-catabolic effect. And maybe a cosmetic effect with masteron (but I don't care about the cosmetic effect, I'm focused on lean mass tissu)
Everything else comes from maintaining perfomance and training loads as long as possible and adjusting with food or rest.

I don't do aggressive mini cuts anymore either. Too much loss of strength and muscle related to that. And it doesn't require a lot of mg of ped's in that way indeed.

Low anabolic is best for health in my opinion,

Majority of people don't use protection like telmisartan, nac, tudca ....

I stay on diet all year round and keep training hard, i stay lean, can run with +20kg height measure, low peds but more density everyday

Now people using a lot of peds in high dose have poor physiques with a lot of problems, i see that in the npc division, some men's physique using 20ui of insulin without gh starting to have bubble gut ...

 

[Raiders789]

Although I don't have as much experience as all of you guys to make a fair comparison between high test vs low test + high anabolic, I'm currently in the middle of a trt + high primo cycle and its been absolutely great so far.

As of now im running 200mg test cyp, 800mg primo, 1mg estradiol cyp, 8iu hgh, ~20 var pwo (along with other on cycle ancillaries, all mentioned here if anyone is interested). Coming up on 12 weeks of this stack, eating in a surplus, and I've put on an insane amount of mass with hardly any sides. By far the best progress I've made in my enhanced journey.