Strongest sleep introducing options

[AlexDavis43]

Hello,
which (preferably avaiable) drugs are sleep introducing and not just sleeping pills? I've used some time ago baclofen but I would prefer stuff where I really fall asleep. Any options?

They are all shit

Fix your sleep hygiene

Start here

(this goes for everyone)

 

[RockyP]

That's the shit that's blamed for Michael Jackson's death

It’s the only pleasant aspect of having a colonoscopy. I can see why people reach for it in desperation. It’s a sleep like no other.

 

[readalot]

Lol. Read the thread title.

 

[BamaCrazy]

That's the shit that's blamed for Michael Jackson's death

True. But that study is pretty impressive.

“A 2-h continuous intravenous infusion of 3.0 g/l propofol for five consecutive nights improved the subjective and objective assessments of sleep in 64 patients with refractory chronic primary insomnia. This improvement occurred immediately after the therapy and persisted for 6 months. No serious adverse events were noticed during the period of drug administration or 6 months after the treatment.”

5 night treatment for 6 months of better sleep.

 

[Ateam2023]

They are all shit

Fix your sleep hygiene

Start here

(this goes for everyone)

thats ok for mild sleep problems,

 

[RandallFlagg]

True. But that study is pretty impressive.

“A 2-h continuous intravenous infusion of 3.0 g/l propofol for five consecutive nights improved the subjective and objective assessments of sleep in 64 patients with refractory chronic primary insomnia. This improvement occurred immediately after the therapy and persisted for 6 months. No serious adverse events were noticed during the period of drug administration or 6 months after the treatment.”

5 night treatment for 6 months of better sleep.

Or 1 treatment.... permanent apnea...the eternal rest.

 

[readalot]

Or 1 treatment.... permanent apnea...the eternal rest.

 

[readalot]

True. But that study is pretty impressive.

“A 2-h continuous intravenous infusion of 3.0 g/l propofol for five consecutive nights improved the subjective and objective assessments of sleep in 64 patients with refractory chronic primary insomnia. This improvement occurred immediately after the therapy and persisted for 6 months. No serious adverse events were noticed during the period of drug administration or 6 months after the treatment.”

5 night treatment for 6 months of better sleep.

Know what you are doing if you mess with that as in have an anesthesiologist. Purely for educational purposes.

 

[readalot]

It’s a sleep like no other.

permanent apnea...the eternal rest.

These guys get it.

 

[readalot]

mirtazapine

Tried that for a bit. Felt like I got hit by a truck every morning.

Prior discussion on leptin effect.

Post in thread 'HGH sleep issues'

Sep 16, 2024

Haha indeed.

Histamine plays an important part in heat production, energy balance/expenditure beyond leptin. So decreasing histamine signaling, as far as I know, decreases energy expenditure. But it's also important for leptin signaling pathway. And beyond that it also ties in many other processes revolving around energy balance/expenditure (brown adipose tissue, neuropeptides, etc.). I mean, blocking histamine as profoundly as mirtazapine does (it's the strongest antihistaminergic psychotropic drug to my knowledge) just wrecks pure havoc; from the immune system, energy expenditure to...

• AlexDavis43

• 
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[psauce]

Mirtazapine can be found easy enough. Anti histamines too.
Or if you want something more natural valerian roots pretty light.

Antihistamines are a bad move for sleep now.

The first-generation, sedating antihistamines are all cholinergics. The data are really clear that use of cholinergics contributes to dementia risk in a cumulative manner. The risk increases for everyone, and if dementia was already in the cards, the onset can be sped up and the severity can be increased. A Benadryl during an allergy attack is one thing, but every night is a different beast.

The common ones are diphenhydramine (Benadryl), doxylamine (Unisom), dimenhydrinate (Dramamine), hydroxyzine, chlorpheniramine, promethazine, and so on.

They also really fuck with sleep architecture, so it may end up making the problem worse.

 

[BamaCrazy]

These guys get it.

lol. To clarify. Under a physicians care round the clock. 5 days treatment in a sleep clinic for 6 months good sleep.

 

[readalot]

lol. To clarify. Under a physicians care round the clock. 5 days treatment in a sleep clinic for 6 months good sleep.

Great clarification. I know you get it. Just wanted to be careful to make sure folks understood this med is only for use under appropriate, qualified medical care. Great paper. Thanks for sharing with the community here.

 

[Sicsemptyran]

I know it's not what you asked for, but I'm going. to mention Zaleplon. Unlike Zopiclone and Eszopiclone, I find there's no hangover or other unwanted effect the next day at all. May be what you're looking for if you've had bad experiences with other sleep meds.

I've been given "go" and "no go" pills by Uncle Sam, and while they lean heavily towards Zolpidem in that context, I was lucky to only ever use zaleplon a few times and never touch Zolpidem. Frankly I don't think I ever would either.

Zolpidem -> Almost always a nightmare to deal with. God forbid there's a reason to need to wake up early (contact/somebody doing something retarded/etc), the guys who took Ambien would be literal zombies. Less helpful than zombies. Actively unhelpful, confused, incoherent liabilities.

Zaleplon -> You could wake right up and never think you took anything. Downside is I could easily fight through it if I wanted to, didn't HAVE to sleep, and without fail I'd wake up at exactly 4 hours every time. Could easily fall back asleep if needed, but it's not going to keep you out.

Have zaleplon stocked up that I will use on rare travel occasions, and am skeptical of anything GABA related in general so make that a very rare use case, but it is by far the superior drug in that class IMO.

 

[Ghoul]

I've been given "go" and "no go" pills by Uncle Sam, and while they lean heavily towards Zolpidem in that context, I was lucky to only ever use zaleplon a few times and never touch Zolpidem. Frankly I don't think I ever would either.

Zolpidem -> Almost always a nightmare to deal with. God forbid there's a reason to need to wake up early (contact/somebody doing something retarded/etc), the guys who took Ambien would be literal zombies. Less helpful than zombies. Actively unhelpful, confused, incoherent liabilities.

Zaleplon -> You could wake right up and never think you took anything. Downside is I could easily fight through it if I wanted to, didn't HAVE to sleep, and without fail I'd wake up at exactly 4 hours every time. Could easily fall back asleep if needed, but it's not going to keep you out.

Have zaleplon stocked up that I will use on rare travel occasions, and am skeptical of anything GABA related in general so make that a very rare use case, but it is by far the superior drug in that class IMO.

In some early research, there are disturbing "signals" that widely used Gaba related compounds, including Gabapentin and Pregabalin are leading to some bad long term outcomes neurologically.

Z drugs aren't exempt, but regular, as in daily, use is the common factor with the harms being seen. (impaired neuroplasticity ,early dementia).

No matter how adventurous one is willing to be, protecting the brain at all costs should always be the guiding principal. Once the brain starts to decline, the body is never far behind.

 

[Photon]

I used to take pregabalin for sleep but stopped because i heard it causes memory issues.

Interestingly, gabapentin low dose ER is approved for RLS..and my insurance won't cover it, but will cover a strong dose immediate release!

 

[Sicsemptyran]

In some early research, there are disturbing "signals" that widely used Gaba related compounds, including Gabapentin and Pregabalin are leading to some bad long term outcomes neurologically.

Z drugs aren't exempt, but regular, as in daily, use is the common factor with the harms being seen. (impaired neuroplasticity ,early dementia).

No matter how adventurous one is willing to be, protecting the brain at all costs should always be the guiding principal. Once the brain starts to decline, the body is never far behind.

To follow up on Photon's note - Where would you put the risk/reward on something like pregabalin or gabapentin compared to something like zaleplon?

In my mind I can't even remotely consider these to be recommended daily, but as a "nuclear sleep option" once in a while, curious if you think any of those are on a risk continuum, or if you'd prefer some other option entirely.

 

[MingDao]

The orexin antagonists work the best for me. Take 1 pill and an hour later I can't keep my eyes open. I take Dayvigo. There's also Quviviq or Belsomra

Any sides? Did it work from the first dose, or after taking it for 20-30 days?

 

[Photon]

Any sides? Did it work from the first dose, or after taking it for 20-30 days?

Day time sleepiness.
Sleep paralysis.

Works best on empty stomach.
First dose - yes

Day is stronger, easier to get coverage, longer half life.
Quv is newer, most insurance won't cover, shorter half life.

 

[MingDao]

Day time sleepiness.
Sleep paralysis.

Works best on empty stomach.
First dose - yes

Day is stronger, easier to get coverage, longer half life.
Quv is newer, most insurance won't cover, shorter half life.

In Europe we only have Quv, I think. It is relatively expensive. Heard very mixed opinions about it. Haven't tried myself yet.