MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
Blood Pressure
- Thread starter gilmarpersonal
- Start date
Turbo charged
Member
I never said not to take blood pressure meds what the heck are you talking about I said if you have to take HIGH AMOUNTS Of Blood Pressure meds just to keep your blood pressure in check while on gear you should lower the gear. What are you not understanding.
explodingHeart
Member
You endlessly implied high BP was a moral failing of being a young guy using too much gear.
On a forum full of mostly middle aged guys on TRT.
> if you have to take HIGH AMOUNTS Of Blood Pressure meds
Doesn't work. A moderate or even low dose gets most of the BP reduction. Taking two low dose BP meds is the standard recommendation.
No one is damaging themselves by taking a BP med. At the least they're protecting their kidneys.
explodingHeart
Member
Glad it worked for you, but the BP reduction from exercise, which most of us do already, is very modest.
Turbo charged
Member
I agree with you but I got young guys I train who constantly stay on and call it trt or cruise or whatever blast and cruise all this dumb shit. A cycle is a cycle go on go off try to keep gains as much as you can. So what if you lose some strength and size. Receptors get a break and you come back bigger than your last cycle. Young guys blasting tren and don't compete and have all kind of blood pressure issues and are slamming meds to combat it. I shake my head. Lower the fucking gear. If you have high blood pressure and don't do gear then guess what don't do gear till you can get your blood pressure down without gear.
A person who has high blood pressure naturally should not even think of taking steroids.
Finally got my hands on Ivabradine - time to do something about this stubborn resting heart rate sitting at 90–100 bpm like it’s trying to set a personal record.
What’s the usual starting dose? Was thinking 5mg per day split into two doses of 2.5mg.
If it brings my heart rate down by even 10–15 bpm, I’ll be more than happy with that.
What’s the usual starting dose? Was thinking 5mg per day split into two doses of 2.5mg.
If it brings my heart rate down by even 10–15 bpm, I’ll be more than happy with that.
Yes sir
Photon
Member
Absorption is improved with food.
I saw no difference on 10mg vs 7.5mg.
I currently take a 10mg slow release version 2x a day bought from a vendor here.
Thanks for the info! Mind if I ask something out of curiosity?
I’ve noticed you take quite a few medications - is that mainly to manage side effects from your cycle, or are there some underlying health issues you’re addressing?
Photon
Member
It depends
For Ivabradine:
I have normal/low BP and high RHR on TRT doses.
Taking BP medications make me hypo.
I only take BP medications while blasting.
For the other stuff - it's the same as how people are trying out new untested products sold by UGL and seeing if there's a benefit. At least with Pharma, there are clinical trials on (1) safety and (2) dosing.
Thank you. This is actually the first time in my life I’ve had to use Telmisartan and Ivabradine - never had any issues before.
But for some reason, this cycle hit differently. Maybe just the timing… or maybe age tapping me on the shoulder. Either way, better to play it smart.
Ghoul
Member
For a long time the most prudent approach to medicines was "the fewer the better", and the precautionary principle was best.
This made (and still does) a lot of sense, since it's not uncommon to discover some drugs were causing more harm than good.
That's still true, and I'm sure we'll see many more examples in the future.
However, I think there's a shift in mindset among a growing minority. Medicine (as a whole, not just pharmaceuticals) can be leveraged to improve health beyond what normal biology would allow, not just "fix" problems.
This is possible thanks to the access to much more information than the "dark ages" of just a couple decades ago.
Instead of reducing BP once it's in the range of proven harms, why not go beyond that and take it into an (evidence based) "optimal" range? Even if that lowers than what would otherwise warrant treatment?
Same for cholesterol.
Or using something that demonstrably improves endothelial function beyond what would be considered "normal" at a given age? Or reduced systemic inflammation, or boosts neuroplasticity, etc.
I'm mainly referring to compounds that have a long track record and millions of users giving us a good chance of all potential serious problems having been already discovered by decades of guinea pigs using them. Newer drugs increase the risk of unpleasant surprises later of course, and would really need some dramatic benefit to offset the risk.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that "more drugs=sicker" is no longer necessarily the case if you're trying to go beyond baseline "healthy" by mainstream standards, especially for the long term, and sticking to compounds with plenty of data regarding safety. As long as safety is there, unconventional benefits that appear to exist don't have to necessarily be proven beyond doubt. It may be worth rolling the dice if the downside is wasting money on pill that doesn't help the way you thought.
Thinking of this unconventional, somewhat unapproved use like PEDs, in this case "HED", "Health Enhancing Drugs", vs fixing some health problem that's already developed.
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Photon
Member
Exactly this.
Some people prefer injecting random stuff without any clinical trials to seek out benefits. I prefer testing out pharma products, with proven clinical trials on safety and dosing.
Ghoul
Member
I prided myself on not taking any meds for the longest time, to the point of foolishness. It's a bridge no one wants to cross imo. I think it's because meds imply a dependancy on the "system", a reality check about not being immortal, and just an association with old and sick people no one wants to picture themselves as.
Now I look at something like Telm as an advantage over those not using it. "Kidney armor". PPAR based metabolism enhancing, greater insulin sensitivity, endothelial function improver, etc, without any real downside or harm to health. It's not as if you can have too much of any of those effects, regardless of your baseline health. Have to watch potassium levels because it increases retention. But if that's ok, I don't see any downside whatsoever, its side effects are all advantages. If you could remove the BP reduction, who wouldn't want to take it as a supplement for those health benefits?
To be clear, plenty of meds, most of them probably, have significant downsides and are best avoided unless there's no alternative. But there's an increasing list of drugs in almost every category that have lots of "health enhancing" impacts with little or no discernible downside.
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Ghoul
Member
Just to bolster the point, this is an argument I was making here a year ago based on the data regarding GLPs impact on nearly every tissue in the body. Going back 30 years+, via animal and in vitro studies, now slowly being confirmed with human trial after trial, it's as if every cell with a GLP receptor does something positive when agonized. The "hormone of youth" in a sense. Though I understand the earlier skepticism of "too good to be true" and all the folks waiting for user's eyes to fall out or huge penis tumors to appear.
Well said, man. I used to think the same way - now I see meds like Telm as tools, not crutches. If it gives you an edge and protects long-term health, why not use it smartly?
BamaCrazy
Banned
I agree to a certain extent. For example if you have high BP take a medication. If you know your cycle will create conditions that cause high BP get in front of it and take a medication. But I don’t agree with taking medications you don’t need. Your liver and kidneys have a crucial role in metabolizing and excreting medications and are vulnerable when taking excessive amounts of medications.
Totally agree - that’s why I’ve added Telmisartan and Ivabradine during this cycle, but only for the duration of the blast.
I also bumped up Rosuvastatin from 5mg to 10mg since my recent labs weren’t looking great.
Honestly, I’m a bit surprised how rough this cycle has been in terms of side effects and overall health, even though liver and kidney values are still perfect.
Starting to think I might need to take a proper break after this one.
BamaCrazy
Banned
Yea. Your hematocrit, cholesterol and Apo B are concerning. Have you thought about adding Ezitimibe to your Rosuvastatin instead of increasing Rosuvastatin? Or staying at 10mg and adding Ezitimibe? I’m on 10mg Rosuvastatin and 10mg Ezitimibe and my total cholesterol is around 75-80. Off cycle I drop the Ezitimibe.
