Thoughts on diet sodas?

[BalrogRebel]

What do you guys think about diet sodas, like "light coke", "light pepsi", etc.? In other words, those that replace their sugar content with a low-calories artificial sweetener, like aspartame.

I've read quite a bit online, but it seems everyone has (as always, goddamn these fucking scientists that can't figure shit for shit) different opinions.

I'm not overly concerned about the "health hazard" in terms of liver damage, or increased cancer risk. Rather, my main issue is with the claim that these products can cause an insulin response, and therefore hinder the process of fat loss, should that be your goal.

Now, these claims are probably true, but I wonder if they are just "technically true" (that'd be my guess), or diet sodas can in fact have a significant impact on the insulin response. In other words, "technically speaking" a 1% increase in insulin would support the claim of "it raises insulin, so it hinders fat loss!", but it would be quite retarded to consider such a small increase relevant.

For me, personally, I've always found that overconsuming diet sodas (talking of a 1.5/2L bottle a day) can help me curb my hunger significantly, albeit at the "cost" of having to keep consuming them for as long as I need my appetite kept under control. On the other hand, with a bit of willpower I could do without them anyway, but that means suffering the hunger quite a bit more (which wouldn't be too big a problem, if I didn't become an enraged monster after a week or so of calories restriction. Alas, I do).

So, I wonder: as far as you guys know, anecdotally or better yet scientifically, do diet sodas have a relevant (negative) impact on fat loss (via increased insulin secretion, or any other pathway), or not?

 

[S317]

Man when I diet I drink diet and sugar free drinks by the 2liter. I also use sugar free condiments and the only thing that happens is dieting sucks a little less. Even when I did keto a 12 pack of diet cherry Pepsi never did a thing to my blood sugar or insulin levels. Everybody is different but honestly I think if your calories are low enough then a zero calorie drink will not do anything.

 

[Gbro]

I love them. They keep my fat little belly from being a huge fat belly.

 

[EazyE]

I don’t over consume them, but they are nice for a treat once in a while or 2-3 times per week. Way better than crushing regular sofas full of all kinds of sugar (upwards of 60g in some drinks, depending on serving size). I don’t buy that shit where people try to justify their consumption of regular sofas by stating how bad diet drinks are.

 

[EazyE]

Canada Dry diet ginger ale is awesome.

 

[Villain]

All kinds of studies out there that state the artificial sweeteners in diet drinks cause you to gain or keep fat. If you’re not concerned about the dangers of it and it works for you, have at it.

 

[MindlessWork]

Diet Cherry Pepsi is my fave.

 

[MisterSuperGod]

The aftertaste is too much for me, though i can tolerate suger free Red Bull.

As far as soda is concerned, i rarely drink it, but when i do, i exercise self control and only have about 8 oz.

 

[Boss hog]

Gave up soda years ago and find drinks like hint water are way to carbonated for my liking. Also, my 6 year old will not even drink soda or even stuff like Hawaiian punch. He knows he can have water or milk but soda is off limits.

 

[Villain]

Gave up soda years ago and find drinks like hint water are way to carbonated for my liking. Also, my 6 year old will not even drink soda or even stuff like Hawaiian punch. He knows he can have water or milk but soda is off limits.

I haven’t had as much as a full glass of soda in over 15 years. I may take a sip once a year or so, but straight water or water with lemon or lime is the best. Nothing quenches the thirst better.

 

[Boss hog]

I agree with you 100%, nothing better than Ice water with or with out lemon.

 

[S317]

I respect the discipline of you guys. I don’t even drink water without mio in it or sugar free kool aid water flavor.

 

[FR0Z3N_B0MB3RRR]

I drank some zero Coke & co. on a keto and didnt feel glycemic variation.. I dont think the sweet taste is related to Insulin secretion as some say.. starch isnt sweet, and it causes insulin secretion. Feeling of “sweet” i think means nothing “physiologically” speaking... insulin secretion etc think only follows blood glucose levels...

 

[BalrogRebel]

All kinds of studies out there that state the artificial sweeteners in diet drinks cause you to gain or keep fat. If you’re not concerned about the dangers of it and it works for you, have at it.

Do they, though? Do they have a causal relation, or just correlation?

There are many possible confounding factors, starting from the fact that a lot of people think if they switch to diet sodas they can then eat whatever they want and will magically lose fat. That's obviously not the case, but it might cause a study to show a correlation (but not causation) between sodas consumption and fat retention.

Also, regarding lemon water, mine is not a problem of thirst, it's a problem of hunger. And if I had to guess, I would say that lemon juice has more calories than the artificial sweetener (probably somewhat negligible, but anyway).

Also, I do drink a lot of plain water during the day. But, again, water is for thirst, sodas for hunger.

And yea, they are better than regular sodas, no shit there lol

starch isnt sweet, and it causes insulin secretion. Feeling of “sweet” i think means nothing “physiologically” speaking... insulin secretion etc think only follows blood glucose levels...

That's because there are multiple phases of digestion. One is the cephalic phase, and then there are the gastric and intestinal phases. The first of these three is related to the sensory perception of food, i.e. thought, smell, and taste. Of the three, it's the weakest in determining a response, but it does cause a response nonetheless. And that's where the possible problem with the sweeteners comes in.

 

[Villain]

Do they, though? Do they have a causal relation, or just correlation?

There are many possible confounding factors, starting from the fact that a lot of people think if they switch to diet sodas they can then eat whatever they want and will magically lose fat. That's obviously not the case, but it might cause a study to show a correlation (but not causation) between sodas consumption and fat retention.

Very good point. I’m not sure if there have been studies that go along with exactly how diet soda drinkers are also eating, though I’d be willing to bet you’re right. Interesting thoughts. Aspartame and Splenda As the sweeteners are enough for me to avoid, regardless. Plus, they just taste nasty.

 

[NorthMich]

Interesting factoid: when you taste artificial sweet, your body starts to release insulin. Even though there’s no actual sugar.

less artificial product in cans with coatings / linings is better

How Artificial Sweeteners Affect Blood Sugar and Insulin

 

[FR0Z3N_B0MB3RRR]

Interesting factoid: when you taste artificial sweet, your body starts to release insulin. Even though there’s no actual sugar.

less artificial product in cans with coatings / linings is better

So if you eat starch you dont release insulin. I dont think there is a correlation between a feeling and a biochemical process.... so if i give you some sweetened poison you ll be fine... i drank zero coke during keto and had no problems about lowered glycemia...

Insulin is being released when glucose levels go higher, not when you taste something sweet... i can give you some flavor enhancing like sodium guanylate and di-sodium inosinate that taste like meat, and your muscles will grow out of imaginary aminoacids. Some toughts and some smells cause a release of hydrocloric acid, and this is pure fact. But glycemia is highly related to brain death... so we would be pure stupid creatures if we release a dangerous substance like insulin when not needed... Dextrose Equivalance isnt related to glycemix index... rice and flour arent sweet... so you wont release insulin? Interesting fact: the people whos certain of things without real evidence and write sentence is the people who bust your balls the most.
“The heart is flat“... “that body is achievable naturally i know hes working hard 10 years straight i know even if i am a skinny phaggot and wanna keep believing that tale because it makes me happy”...”USA made Manhattan’s Twin Towers falling and did attack Pentagon because so they can steal petrol in Iraq” ... “Coronavirus has been created in lab by China/Usa because so they can steal your bank funds” ... “Coronavirus doesnt exists” ... “Aliens do exist” ... “God exists” ... “Witches are bad and we should kill them all”... etc

 

[NorthMich]

Insulin is being released when glucose levels go higher, not when you taste something sweet

Well that’s my point. That’s not true. See the link and many more like it. It was big news when the data first came forward. Coke and Pepsi do what they can to marginalize the data, obviously. There’s $$ at risk.

 

[Ritchboy]

What do you guys think about diet sodas, like "light coke", "light pepsi", etc.? In other words, those that replace their sugar content with a low-calories artificial sweetener, like aspartame.

I've read quite a bit online, but it seems everyone has (as always, goddamn these fucking scientists that can't figure shit for shit) different opinions.

I'm not overly concerned about the "health hazard" in terms of liver damage, or increased cancer risk. Rather, my main issue is with the claim that these products can cause an insulin response, and therefore hinder the process of fat loss, should that be your goal.

Now, these claims are probably true, but I wonder if they are just "technically true" (that'd be my guess), or diet sodas can in fact have a significant impact on the insulin response. In other words, "technically speaking" a 1% increase in insulin would support the claim of "it raises insulin, so it hinders fat loss!", but it would be quite retarded to consider such a small increase relevant.

For me, personally, I've always found that overconsuming diet sodas (talking of a 1.5/2L bottle a day) can help me curb my hunger significantly, albeit at the "cost" of having to keep consuming them for as long as I need my appetite kept under control. On the other hand, with a bit of willpower I could do without them anyway, but that means suffering the hunger quite a bit more (which wouldn't be too big a problem, if I didn't become an enraged monster after a week or so of calories restriction. Alas, I do).

So, I wonder: as far as you guys know, anecdotally or better yet scientifically, do diet sodas have a relevant (negative) impact on fat loss (via increased insulin secretion, or any other pathway), or not?

I mean according to Layne Norton (biolayne) and doctor greg doucette they mentioned it's toattly fine to drink diet Coke it won't harm u.

 

[BalrogRebel]

So if you eat starch you dont release insulin.

You might, actually. Of course you do once the "real digestion begins", but technically speaking you might have a cephalic response to it as well. First, because cephalic response is, at least in part, acquired. Second, because there is an enzyme in your saliva, called amylase, basically the same one your pancreas has, albeit it won't have enough time to do much. Regardless, it's said that if you chew and don't swallow things like bread, or starches in general, the amylase should have enough time for you to taste sweet. I can't say I've ever experienced it myself, but it's something you'll find written on every book about digestion. Technicalities anyway.

The main point is, the taste is just a part of the cephalic response. Chewing is actually also, technically, a part of it. Even thinking about food triggers a well-known cephalic response, "mouth watering" as it's known. Hypersalivation expecting to need saliva to handle the bolus is, in its principle, similar to expecting the need for insulin to handle the sugar.

Insulin is being released when glucose levels go higher, not when you taste something sweet

Unfortunately, it can be released in both scenarios. To what degree, that's the question.

so we would be pure stupid creatures if we release a dangerous substance like insulin when not needed...

Or we would be smart creatures for preparing for the upcoming release of energy into the bloodstream, since hyperglycemia is also potentially dangerous. From an evolutionary standpoint it would make sense that you would associate taste with incoming calories, because, well, in nature that'd always be the case. It's like bracing for an impact, which your body has no reason to suspect won't be coming. Perhaps it makes more sense for the stomach to produce acids during the cephalic phase, rather than insulin being released, but even then one might argue that it's a waste of energy to preemptively prepare to digest food one is yet to ingest.

I do understand your point, it would be more efficient if our body waited until the last moment before sugar went into the bloodstream before releasing any insulin at all. For that matter, however, our body could also be smart enough to understand that once you are 20 Kg overweight it's time to signal a stop in appetite, or that if you keep struggling with that 405 bench press it's probably time to signal an increase in muscle synthesis. Alas, our bodies are not always efficient, and that's why we have fat fucks in the street and plateaus in the gym.

I mean according to Layne Norton (biolayne) and doctor greg doucette they mentioned it's toattly fine to drink diet Coke it won't harm u.

I'm not familiar with Layne Norton's content, but I did watch the latter's videos on the topic. I don't recall him ever addressing this particular concern.

While it would be nice to believe them, we are talking about high-level athletes. And, at least in Greg's case, people that do so much cardio that the impact of a few sodas would be counteracted for sure. On a smaller scale, for the average Joe like me, the impact might be bigger though.

That's kinda why I was asking for anecdotal reports, since science has (to the best of my knowledge) failed to give a definitive answer. It's really easy to fall for the confirmation bias though, and believe only the anecdotes that support what you want the answer to be.

I do have to wonder, though, with what people pay to buy insulin and IGF-1 for doping...if diet sodas really had a significant impact on insulin response, then maybe they should just take a can of coke at each meal during their bulks, and save the money and risk associated with doping with insulin. It would have to go both ways, after all, and it'd have to be as bad for cutting as it'd be beneficial for bulking.