What does everyone eat while on bulking and cutting cycles?

[Cash43]

Well I'm eating over my maintenance. Someone told me to lower carbs and increase fat.

Dieting is so confusing. Haha I think I'll increase protein and drop carbs down a little.

The issue with "someone telling you" is they don't know how you'll react. What I'm telling you is what I did, what's working for me, a 40 year old with a different life than you.

Try raising fats, keep it steady a few weeks, and see what the result is, then adjust from there

 

[wedorecover]

@Wood4days , you been here almost a year and you havent been in the food thread ?
SHAME !!

What's it got a billion pages

 

[Wood4days]

What's it got a billion pages

I went over there and was a trillion pages [emoji33]

 

[Docd187123]

I do what Cash43 does and go high as possible with carbs and drop fats a bit. Carbs are a better energy source for the gym unless you have insulin sensitivity issues.

Also, I wouldn't waste time reverse dieting. It provides no real benefit

 

[colossus25]

I do what Cash43 does and go high as possible with carbs and drop fats a bit. Carbs are a better energy source for the gym unless you have insulin sensitivity issues.

Also, I wouldn't waste time reverse dieting. It provides no real benefit

Thats funny i feel like it worked really well for me after my last cut. Slowly building up calories instead of just jumping up to a 2000 calorie surplus. I was definitely much leaner as opposed to the traditional bulk i would normally do before. Curious to why you say that doc.

 

[colossus25]

I googled it but can you explain it some more or give me a better link than I'm pulling from Google? My cuts are extreme and while they work your method sounds much better

As opposed to just jumping to a large calorie surplus i simply add calories over time. What works for me while running aas and taking full advantage of the metabolic increase is 200 calories per week. You can adjust that depending on how you respond but thats just what i do. The goal is to increase your calories as your metabolism adjust to the new heightened caloric intake. Some people do the layne norton style but as an enhanced athlete i feel like we could take more that just 50 or 100 cals a week. It takes a few months to build up but i saw a vast difference in my physique as opposed to a traditional bulk would bring. Do the gains come slower? Yes. But you end up putting on far less bodyfat which makes cutting next time far easier. I think that is the biggest advantage with reverse dieting i found. In 3 months time you'll be in a caloric surplus and you just keep adding cals till you reach a point of diminishing return.

 

[colossus25]

@Rockclimber the last time i cut i was able to reach my goal of 8% bf while still eating 3200 cals a day. That definitely beats all the cuts i did before which had me drop down to 2500 cals a day. Also want to add that i am not a person with great metabolism by any means. If i over eat and don't workout i will gain weight.

 

[Cash43]

As opposed to just jumping to a large calorie surplus i simply add calories over time. What works for me while running aas and taking full advantage of the metabolic increase is 200 calories per week. You can adjust that depending on how you respond but thats just what i do. The goal is to increase your calories as your metabolism adjust to the new heightened caloric intake. Some people do the layne norton style but as an enhanced athlete i feel like we could take more that just 50 or 100 cals a week. It takes a few months to build up but i saw a vast difference in my physique as opposed to a traditional bulk would bring. Do the gains come slower? Yes. But you end up putting on far less bodyfat which makes cutting next time far easier. I think that is the biggest advantage with reverse dieting i found. In 3 months time you'll be in a caloric surplus and you just keep adding cals till you reach a point of diminishing return.

I think 200 is a good number, not a huge change, but enough for slow, steady gains. Personally I'd like 2lbs a month of quality over 30lbs in 12 weeks

 

[colossus25]

I think 200 is a good number, not a huge change, but enough for slow, steady gains. Personally I'd like 2lbs a month of quality over 30lbs in 12 weeks

Thats why some people dislike reverse dieting. They want to gain a ton of weight and strength fast without understanding that a good portion of that weight is going to be bodyfat. Then the real kicker is when you have to cut again and have to drop your calories even further which will kill some of your gains off with it. Seems pointless. In 4 months i went from 8%bf to just over 9% bf and had gained a total of 14lbs. Pretty damn good trade off if you ask me. I really think its also dependant on the individual as well. Some guys can add 1500 calories over night and still stay lean, i am simply not one of those guys lol.

 

[Cash43]

Thats why some people dislike reverse dieting. They want to gain a ton of weight and strength fast without understanding that a good portion of that weight is going to be bodyfat. Then the real kicker is when you have to cut again and have to drop your calories even further which will kill some of your gains off with it. Seems pointless. In 4 months i went from 8%bf to just over 9% bf and had gained a total of 14lbs. Pretty damn good trade off if you ask me. I really think its also dependant on the individual as well. Some guys can add 1500 calories over night and still stay lean, i am simply not one of those guys lol.

Yeah idk I'd rather stay close to my goals year round and do little adjustments. I don't get or agree with guys that look like shit, just eat and eat all off season then just kill it for 4 months of summer, then back to sloppy. I'd rather live it 24/7 than part time

 

[colossus25]

Im still curious to see why @Docd187123 dislikes reverse dieting. The guy is a well of knowledge im sure he has some great input on the subject.

 

[Wood4days]

I do what Cash43 does and go high as possible with carbs and drop fats a bit. Carbs are a better energy source for the gym unless you have insulin sensitivity issues.

Also, I wouldn't waste time reverse dieting. It provides no real benefit

Thanks Doc.

Question. I notice that since I increased my HGH to 5iu/day my glucose has gone up above normal range. Will this return to normal once I reduce or stop HGH?

 

[Morefyah]

Cutting cycle, what's that?
When I'm all out Bulking cycle
2-3 peanut butter banana sandwiches
Oats
Potatoes
Sweet potatoes
Lots of rice
Plantains
Lots of beans
Lots of hemp granola
Coconut oil
Pasta
Avocados
Macadamia nuts
Lots of pancakes

 

[PIZZABOY]

Bulking is easy. Couple bong swats, and whatever is in kitchen. The Mrs. Keeps it stocked with good food. She has a sweet tooth so she keeps the pogy bait hidden. Easy half gallon milk daily, and Vit. D is still low, lol
Cutting not so easy. We all know how to do it. Too much chicken. I used to love chicken.

EDIT there is a special circle in Hell, where you only consume chicken Caesar salads.

 

[Docd187123]

Thats funny i feel like it worked really well for me after my last cut. Slowly building up calories instead of just jumping up to a 2000 calorie surplus. I was definitely much leaner as opposed to the traditional bulk i would normally do before. Curious to why you say that doc.

Most people that follow it are competitors after a show. The problem is that it's serving no real physiological need but only psychological ones since aesthetic competitors tend to obsess over quick weight gains but the weight gains are mostly water and glycogen. It can actually be harmful for women competitors as it can permanently stop their menstrual cycle. Now, if you only spend a couple weeks doing it it's not that big of a deal but there are people out there reverse dieting for months on end. Here's a post from a good buddy MrRippedzilla on the topic

That's exactly what it is and yes, its wrong.

Reverse dieting = slowly adding calories back, over a period of months, after a cut/show until you reach maintenance.
It is a popular approach for competitors who obsess over the slightest weight gain (even if its just water) and live in a fantasy world of maintaining show-ready conditioning. This mentally applies to most competitors, especially women, so you can see why reverse dieting is popular - it feeds their psychological needs.

The problem is, psychological needs do not dictate physiological realities.
By reverse dieting all your really doing is staying in a deficit for an extended period of time and DELAYING your recovery. For men - hormone levels are not going to ****ing return to normal until you reach maintenance. For women - same thing plus the major ****ing issue of amenorrhoea, which takes a long time to recover anyway but by reverse dieting your making the situation worse. Getting to maintenance is an absolute necessity for physical recovery and there is no way around this beyond drug use - that's why this reverse dieting bullshit is a major pain in my ass.

This entire concept was created by Layne Norton and his butt buddies, who manage to make a shitload of cash through it by the way, and then a bunch of other "coaches" followed suite because they can't differentiate their assess from their mouths and must follow whatever is trending. Of course these "coaches" benefited greatly because it allowed them to generate more money by promoting "reversediet plans" or "recovery dietphases" and making clients keep them hired for longer periods of time. Bunch of money hungry mother****ers.

And then you have coaches like myself and POB who don't promote bullshit.
I'll let POB speak for himself since I'm not sure how common a trend this is in the PLing world but when it comes to BBing its a major pain in my ass. I spend so long trying to help these folks, mostly women, recover from neglectful care while also trying EDUCATE them because THAT is how your supposed to deal with both the psychological needs + physiological realities.
We spend, at most, 2 weeks getting back up to maintenance so that everything physical recovers as soon as possible and the rest of the time its mostly behavioral therapy focused on reducing the weight/aesthetic/food obsession and making it part of a bigger picture. Of course this is hard work and doesn't provide any short term results, which is why most coaches don't even bother with it - who cares about what your clients need when you can just line your pockets up with more cash right? ****ers.

I know I'm going way off now but I cannot emphasize enough the importance of behavioral therapy for competitors.
One of the reasons you don't see these behavioral issues with PLers as much is because you guys are focused on a HEALTHY long term goal - getting stronger, bodybuilding is focused on getting super shredded for 1 show, which is not a health or long term goal in any way shape or form.
So I spend a lot of time of helping these folks creating a goal-setting mindset that isn't necessarily revolving around food/looks so that they have that feeling of control & freedom - 2 key attributes to avoiding eating disorders & body dysmorphia. The idea is to create mindful acceptance, habits involving taking positive action vs stress and, most importantly of all, eliminating the obsessive tendencies that run rampant in this community.
This stuff is hard work but worth it in the long run. Not only do you see these clients grow, personal growth, but also develop much healthier relationships all round (with food, family, partners, life in general) and it does benefit their competitive careers too because you'll see most competitors tell you that their best preps are the least stressful - not a coincidental association.

TL;DR - reverse dieting is bullshit created to make money for coaches and hurt (physically) clients. Now I'm off for a drink to calm my ass down.

As opposed to just jumping to a large calorie surplus i simply add calories over time. What works for me while running aas and taking full advantage of the metabolic increase is 200 calories per week. You can adjust that depending on how you respond but thats just what i do. The goal is to increase your calories as your metabolism adjust to the new heightened caloric intake. Some people do the layne norton style but as an enhanced athlete i feel like we could take more that just 50 or 100 cals a week. It takes a few months to build up but i saw a vast difference in my physique as opposed to a traditional bulk would bring. Do the gains come slower? Yes. But you end up putting on far less bodyfat which makes cutting next time far easier. I think that is the biggest advantage with reverse dieting i found. In 3 months time you'll be in a caloric surplus and you just keep adding cals till you reach a point of diminishing return.

You could get the same results with just minimizing the size of your calorie surplus.

 

[Docd187123]

Thanks Doc.

Question. I notice that since I increased my HGH to 5iu/day my glucose has gone up above normal range. Will this return to normal once I reduce or stop HGH?

I think it will but chronic abuse could permanently alter it if I'm not mistaken.

 

[colossus25]

Most people that follow it are competitors after a show. The problem is that it's serving no real physiological need but only psychological ones since aesthetic competitors tend to obsess over quick weight gains but the weight gains are mostly water and glycogen. It can actually be harmful for women competitors as it can permanently stop their menstrual cycle. Now, if you only spend a couple weeks doing it it's not that big of a deal but there are people out there reverse dieting for months on end. Here's a post from a good buddy MrRippedzilla on the topic

That's exactly what it is and yes, its wrong.

Reverse dieting = slowly adding calories back, over a period of months, after a cut/show until you reach maintenance.
It is a popular approach for competitors who obsess over the slightest weight gain (even if its just water) and live in a fantasy world of maintaining show-ready conditioning. This mentally applies to most competitors, especially women, so you can see why reverse dieting is popular - it feeds their psychological needs.

The problem is, psychological needs do not dictate physiological realities.
By reverse dieting all your really doing is staying in a deficit for an extended period of time and DELAYING your recovery. For men - hormone levels are not going to ****ing return to normal until you reach maintenance. For women - same thing plus the major ****ing issue of amenorrhoea, which takes a long time to recover anyway but by reverse dieting your making the situation worse. Getting to maintenance is an absolute necessity for physical recovery and there is no way around this beyond drug use - that's why this reverse dieting bullshit is a major pain in my ass.

This entire concept was created by Layne Norton and his butt buddies, who manage to make a shitload of cash through it by the way, and then a bunch of other "coaches" followed suite because they can't differentiate their assess from their mouths and must follow whatever is trending. Of course these "coaches" benefited greatly because it allowed them to generate more money by promoting "reversediet plans" or "recovery dietphases" and making clients keep them hired for longer periods of time. Bunch of money hungry mother****ers.

And then you have coaches like myself and POB who don't promote bullshit.
I'll let POB speak for himself since I'm not sure how common a trend this is in the PLing world but when it comes to BBing its a major pain in my ass. I spend so long trying to help these folks, mostly women, recover from neglectful care while also trying EDUCATE them because THAT is how your supposed to deal with both the psychological needs + physiological realities.
We spend, at most, 2 weeks getting back up to maintenance so that everything physical recovers as soon as possible and the rest of the time its mostly behavioral therapy focused on reducing the weight/aesthetic/food obsession and making it part of a bigger picture. Of course this is hard work and doesn't provide any short term results, which is why most coaches don't even bother with it - who cares about what your clients need when you can just line your pockets up with more cash right? ****ers.

I know I'm going way off now but I cannot emphasize enough the importance of behavioral therapy for competitors.
One of the reasons you don't see these behavioral issues with PLers as much is because you guys are focused on a HEALTHY long term goal - getting stronger, bodybuilding is focused on getting super shredded for 1 show, which is not a health or long term goal in any way shape or form.
So I spend a lot of time of helping these folks creating a goal-setting mindset that isn't necessarily revolving around food/looks so that they have that feeling of control & freedom - 2 key attributes to avoiding eating disorders & body dysmorphia. The idea is to create mindful acceptance, habits involving taking positive action vs stress and, most importantly of all, eliminating the obsessive tendencies that run rampant in this community.
This stuff is hard work but worth it in the long run. Not only do you see these clients grow, personal growth, but also develop much healthier relationships all round (with food, family, partners, life in general) and it does benefit their competitive careers too because you'll see most competitors tell you that their best preps are the least stressful - not a coincidental association.

TL;DR - reverse dieting is bullshit created to make money for coaches and hurt (physically) clients. Now I'm off for a drink to calm my ass down.



You could get the same results with just minimizing the size of your calorie surplus.

That was a good read doc and many great points are made but what he is discussing there is layne norton's shitty version of reverse dieting. I totally agree, adding 20 to 50 calories a week is total bullshit and the cons far outweigh the benefits but my version of it adds 200 calories a week. By the end of the month you are already up 800 calories, so lets say you drop to a deficit of 2500 by the end of the month you're back to 3300 calories which is pretty close to maintenance for most people. I got the idea from a re-comp diet my first coach had me do and kind of created my own hybrid of it.

Within 2 months you'll be in surplus (if you diet down right) and the main goal is to increase that surplus over the course of a few weeks as opposed to doing it all in one shot. Lets take away the name "reverse diet", which is a dirty word for the people in the know, do you still think this approach is no good? I also want to clarify that i don't believe in metabolic damage and all the other fallacies created by these fitness gurus today. Also staying in show time condition year around is bullshit and dangerous and not the goal of my style of dieting at all. Also one point i heavily agree with is that for a PL this approach isn't optimal at all, its more suited for bodybuilders post comp and fitness models.

 

[Docd187123]

That was a good read doc and many great points are made but what he is discussing there is layne norton's shitty version of reverse dieting. I totally agree, adding 20 to 50 calories a week is total bullshit and the cons far outweigh the benefits but my version of it adds 200 calories a week. By the end of the month you are already up 800 calories, so lets say you drop to a deficit of 2500 by the end of the month you're back to 3300 calories which is pretty close to maintenance for most people. I got the idea from a re-comp diet my first coach had me do and kind of created my own hybrid of it.

Within 2 months you'll be in surplus (if you diet down right) and the main goal is to increase that surplus over the course of a few weeks as opposed to doing it all in one shot. Lets take away the name "reverse diet", which is a dirty word for the people in the know, do you still think this approach is no good? I also want to clarify that i don't believe in metabolic damage and all the other fallacies created by these fitness gurus today. Also staying in show time condition year around is bullshit and dangerous and not the goal of my style of dieting at all. Also one point i heavily agree with is that for a PL this approach isn't optimal at all, its more suited for bodybuilders post comp and fitness models.

I just don't see the point in extending it for 2months. I Assume you do the two months in order to minimize fat gains when transitioning back to bulking, correct me if I'm wrong? But when you think about it, if you're under maintenance for that first month while slowly ramping calories up then you're still cutting bc you're in a calorie deficit still. Transitioning from a cut to maintenance cannot add fat bc at maintenance you should be maintaining your weight anyway.

Now slowly adding calories from maintenance to bulking is different IMO bc it's just like using a smaller calorie surplus. My main issue is with the getting back to maintenance part.

I do think the way you implement it is better than that 50cal a week bullshit without a doubt.

 

[colossus25]

I just don't see the point in extending it for 2months. I Assume you do the two months in order to minimize fat gains when transitioning back to bulking, correct me if I'm wrong? But when you think about it, if you're under maintenance for that first month while slowly ramping calories up then you're still cutting bc you're in a calorie deficit still. Transitioning from a cut to maintenance cannot add fat bc at maintenance you should be maintaining your weight anyway.

Now slowly adding calories from maintenance to bulking is different IMO bc it's just like using a smaller calorie surplus. My main issue is with the getting back to maintenance part.

I do think the way you implement it is better than that 50cal a week bullshit without a doubt.

Yes that is correct. Maybe a slight tweak to it would make it more effective like adding 400 cals a week for the first two weeks to speed up reaching maintenance and drop it back down to 200 a week after, you would definitely be back at maintenance within 4 weeks that way. Actually that sounds like a great idea to me personally. I've had experience just adding 1500 cals off the bat over 2 weeks and experienced that shitty bloat and rebound and hated it. When i tried my style i did not see any of that and had minimal fat gain as well.

 

[Docd187123]

Yes that is correct. Maybe a slight tweak to it would make it more effective like adding 400 cals a week for the first two weeks to speed up reaching maintenance and drop it back down to 200 a week after, you would definitely be back at maintenance within 4 weeks that way. Actually that sounds like a great idea to me personally. I've had experience just adding 1500 cals off the bat over 2 weeks and experienced that shitty bloat and rebound and hated it. When i tried my style i did not see any of that and had minimal fat gain as well.

Not everyone feels the way I do about bloat. I could care less personally bc I know it's only for a few days but I know ppl hate it so they try avoiding it. If you're up for an experiment then try it out this way so after a week or two from cutting you're back at maintenance and then jus keep a smaller surplus when bulking.