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Anabolic Steroids

Quitting meat ?

I don't have the patience, nor the moral compass for that shit. Hell, I kill animals for fun, and it's hard enough getting the protein in on a bulk. Even just vegetarian, I already eat enough eggs. The farts are real enough as is.

I'd be interested in a study that compared the health benefits of three groups. Vegetarian diets, standard American diets, and diets rich in un processed foods, and free range, organic meats (and vegetable). A lot of people forget that it's quite possible to eat like SHIT as a vegetarian, so when I see studies being conducted on school children, in which there are granola crunching vegetarian chefs trying to go healthy, it makes me wonder. Too many goddamned variables. Have you seen what we feed our kids? I don't even qualify most of that shit as food. ANY change is for the better. If they don't hit the cafeteria, then their lives will be enhanced, unless they're just hitting the vending machines instead. . .

At the end of the day, if you do well in this lifestyle, you already eat much better than any pool of questionnaire participants that does not specifically select fitness nuts. Think about it. . .
 
D-Ballin said:
I don't have the patience, nor the moral compass for that shit. Hell, I kill animals for fun, and it's hard enough getting the protein in on a bulk. Even just vegetarian, I already eat enough eggs. The farts are real enough as is.

I'd be interested in a study that compared the health benefits of three groups. Vegetarian diets, standard American diets, and diets rich in un processed foods, and free range, organic meats (and vegetable). A lot of people forget that it's quite possible to eat like SHIT as a vegetarian, so when I see studies being conducted on school children, in which there are granola crunching vegetarian chefs trying to go healthy, it makes me wonder. Too many goddamned variables. Have you seen what we feed our kids? I don't even qualify most of that shit as food. ANY change is for the better. If they don't hit the cafeteria, then their lives will be enhanced, unless they're just hitting the vending machines instead. . .

At the end of the day, if you do well in this lifestyle, you already eat much better than any pool of questionnaire participants that does not specifically select fitness nuts. Think about it. . .
Click to expand...
Funny you speaking about what North American cafeteria's feed the kids now. I just watched Micheal Moore's "Where to invade next" Watch it sometime, the comparisons how the other countries do things and are so productive. Makes you shake your head.
 
CdnGuy said:
Funny you speaking about what North American cafeteria's feed the kids now. I just watched Micheal Moore's "Where to invade next" Watch it sometime, the comparisons how the other countries do things and are so productive. Makes you shake your head.
Click to expand...
I haven't seen it. But I saw the clip of him with the French education system. It was good.

Funny as hell watching that slovenly fuck trying to comment on healthy eating habits, while downing a can of coke (and feeding it to French school children pounding water).

Not a huge Moore fan. But the clip was quite entertaining.
 
Also, my child never had nutritional issues, upset stomachs, or allergies. Until he started eating at American school systems. I've seen the trash they feed him. He gets lunches packed when he's with me now. It's a fucking travesty.
 
I'm not a fan either but the content of the movie shows how simple logic can work. Granted different cultures can't always work for other countries.
 
I wonder how many damn carbs one would have to eat to get 500g pro in a day with a vegan lifestyle?

Let alone the 7000cals one would need to grow properly in a diet that is full of incomplete proteins

Serious question. That is quite a task.
 
Eman said:
Got literature to support this? This really seems like an antiquated statement to me.

I know several vegans and vegetarians and they are extremely healthy individuals.

@CdnGuy you should give it a try for a little while and see how it goes. I tried it for about a week and a half once as a test of will more than anything. It was exhausting coming up with meatless dishes but the ingredients Devika laid out are great staples. After a few days go by you start to feel fantastic, wonderful energy and wellbeing. The leanest I've ever been actually now that I think about it. The experiment ended with a grilled organic grass fed steak from a local butcher and that was fantastic-er < it's a word.
Click to expand...

Oh, you've fallen for the vegan gospel? Pure vegan/vegetarian diets are more about getting satisfaction from a religious penitence like devotion to their regimen than it is about good nutrition.

A study? How about this: http://atlanta.cbslocal.com/2014/04/01/study-vegetarians-less-healthy-lower-quality-of-life-than-meat-eaters/

"A new study from the Medical University of Graz in Austria finds that vegetarians are more physically active, drink less alcohol and smoke less tobacco than those who consume meat in their diets. Vegetarians also have a higher socioeconomic status and a lower body mass index. But the vegetarian diet — characterized by a low consumption of saturated fats and cholesterol that includes increased intake of fruits, vegetables and whole-grain products — carries elevated risks of cancer, allergies and mental health disorders.

Vegetarians were twice as likely to have allergies, a 50 percent increase in heart attacks and a 50 percent increase in incidences of cancer."​

The above significantly elevated risks were despite the benefits from the higher socioeconomic status, the greater exercise, and lower BMI of the vegetarians.

Prey tell - how does it make sense for an omnivore like a human to omit vital food sources from his diet? This is how we have evolved over the millennia, and now some fruitloops want to change their diet? Darwin to the rescue (vegetarians and their B12 deficiency is no joke).

Why say no to perfectly good sources of B12, calcium, iron, zinc, creatine, vitamin D, riboflavin, alpha-linolenic acid, and numerous micro-nutrients? Yes, many of these can be had by regularly eating select veggies and nuts - but some are really hard to get. (Just don't tell me it's earth-friendly to grow that and ship it to the inner city Farmer's Market.) Also, especially with protein, which is near and dear to us, vegans/vegetarians have to take in substantial amounts of fat alongside the protein.

A sensible approach would be to at least accept eggs and fish. But it's a religion, not a diet.

Funny how they think they're so healthy, switching to a "diet" that by design turns various supplements into core staples!

Of course, most normal food eaters are deficient in various stuff too - but that's because of other factors. However, knowingly adopting a diet that has inherent flaws that can only be remedied by significant effort makes no sense (to me) - the cost/benefit isn't rational, done right it's a really expensive diet.

Additionally, if you're a vegan/vegetarian you're self-selecting to opt out of much social interaction with mainstream people, since you're either seen as a) a nutcase and/or b) too difficult to accommodate and/or c) you make everybody else uncomfortable.

I really fail to see the value of vegan/vegetarianism for people on this forum.
 
tenpoundsleft said:
Oh, you've fallen for the vegan gospel? Pure vegan/vegetarian diets are more about getting satisfaction from a religious penitence like devotion to their regimen than it is about good nutrition.

A study? How about this: http://atlanta.cbslocal.com/2014/04/01/study-vegetarians-less-healthy-lower-quality-of-life-than-meat-eaters/

"A new study from the Medical University of Graz in Austria finds that vegetarians are more physically active, drink less alcohol and smoke less tobacco than those who consume meat in their diets. Vegetarians also have a higher socioeconomic status and a lower body mass index. But the vegetarian diet — characterized by a low consumption of saturated fats and cholesterol that includes increased intake of fruits, vegetables and whole-grain products — carries elevated risks of cancer, allergies and mental health disorders.

Vegetarians were twice as likely to have allergies, a 50 percent increase in heart attacks and a 50 percent increase in incidences of cancer."​

The above significantly elevated risks were despite the benefits from the higher socioeconomic status, the greater exercise, and lower BMI of the vegetarians.

Prey tell - how does it make sense for an omnivore like a human to omit vital food sources from his diet? This is how we have evolved over the millennia, and now some fruitloops want to change their diet? Darwin to the rescue (vegetarians and their B12 deficiency is no joke).

Why say no to perfectly good sources of B12, calcium, iron, zinc, creatine, vitamin D, riboflavin, alpha-linolenic acid, and numerous micro-nutrients? Yes, many of these can be had by regularly eating select veggies and nuts - but some are really hard to get. (Just don't tell me it's earth-friendly to grow that and ship it to the inner city Farmer's Market.) Also, especially with protein, which is near and dear to us, vegans/vegetarians have to take in substantial amounts of fat alongside the protein.

A sensible approach would be to at least accept eggs and fish. But it's a religion, not a diet.

Funny how they think they're so healthy, switching to a "diet" that by design turns various supplements into core staples!

Of course, most normal food eaters are deficient in various stuff too - but that's because of other factors. However, knowingly adopting a diet that has inherent flaws that can only be remedied by significant effort makes no sense (to me) - the cost/benefit isn't rational, done right it's a really expensive diet.

Additionally, if you're a vegan/vegetarian you're self-selecting to opt out of much social interaction with mainstream people, since you're either seen as a) a nutcase and/or b) too difficult to accommodate and/or c) you make everybody else uncomfortable.

I really fail to see the value of vegan/vegetarianism for people on this forum.
Click to expand...

First of all, I'm not "falling" for any gospel. You have absolutely no clue what you're talking about.

People are perfectly fine making there own decisions and I respect that - you should try it because your posts always show your ignorance. Despite your ignorance, you seem entitled to a notion you're smarter than the majority of those around you. This means you yourself are self selecting to opt out of meaningful social interaction because I imagine no one can stand to be around you preaching your horse shit.
 
tenpoundsleft said:
Oh, you've fallen for the vegan gospel? Pure vegan/vegetarian diets are more about getting satisfaction from a religious penitence like devotion to their regimen than it is about good nutrition.

A study? How about this: http://atlanta.cbslocal.com/2014/04/01/study-vegetarians-less-healthy-lower-quality-of-life-than-meat-eaters/

"A new study from the Medical University of Graz in Austria finds that vegetarians are more physically active, drink less alcohol and smoke less tobacco than those who consume meat in their diets. Vegetarians also have a higher socioeconomic status and a lower body mass index. But the vegetarian diet — characterized by a low consumption of saturated fats and cholesterol that includes increased intake of fruits, vegetables and whole-grain products — carries elevated risks of cancer, allergies and mental health disorders.

Vegetarians were twice as likely to have allergies, a 50 percent increase in heart attacks and a 50 percent increase in incidences of cancer."​

The above significantly elevated risks were despite the benefits from the higher socioeconomic status, the greater exercise, and lower BMI of the vegetarians.

Prey tell - how does it make sense for an omnivore like a human to omit vital food sources from his diet? This is how we have evolved over the millennia, and now some fruitloops want to change their diet? Darwin to the rescue (vegetarians and their B12 deficiency is no joke).

Why say no to perfectly good sources of B12, calcium, iron, zinc, creatine, vitamin D, riboflavin, alpha-linolenic acid, and numerous micro-nutrients? Yes, many of these can be had by regularly eating select veggies and nuts - but some are really hard to get. (Just don't tell me it's earth-friendly to grow that and ship it to the inner city Farmer's Market.) Also, especially with protein, which is near and dear to us, vegans/vegetarians have to take in substantial amounts of fat alongside the protein.

A sensible approach would be to at least accept eggs and fish. But it's a religion, not a diet.

Funny how they think they're so healthy, switching to a "diet" that by design turns various supplements into core staples!

Of course, most normal food eaters are deficient in various stuff too - but that's because of other factors. However, knowingly adopting a diet that has inherent flaws that can only be remedied by significant effort makes no sense (to me) - the cost/benefit isn't rational, done right it's a really expensive diet.

Additionally, if you're a vegan/vegetarian you're self-selecting to opt out of much social interaction with mainstream people, since you're either seen as a) a nutcase and/or b) too difficult to accommodate and/or c) you make everybody else uncomfortable.

I really fail to see the value of vegan/vegetarianism for people on this forum.
Click to expand...
Your pathetic.,
 
Case study:

Neurologic Impairment in Children Associated With Maternal Dietary Deficiency of Cobalamin—Georgia, 2001

Neurologic Impairment in Children Associated With Maternal Dietary Deficiency of Cobalamin—Georgia, 2001

JAMA. 2003;289:979-980.

MMWR. 2003;52:61-64

2 tables omitted

During 2001, neurologic impairment resulting from cobalamin (vitamin B12) deficiency was diagnosed in two children in Georgia. The children were breastfed by mothers who followed vegetarian diets.* This report summarizes the two cases and provides guidance for health-care providers on identifying and preventing cobalamin deficiency among breastfed infants of vegetarian mothers.


Case 1

During August 2001, a girl aged 15 months was hospitalized for lethargy and failure to thrive. She was born after a full-term pregnancy complicated by prolonged nausea and vomiting. She was breastfed for 8 months, but the extent (exclusivity) of breast milk consumed relative to other food was unknown. Her mother reported following a vegan diet during the preceding 7 years and took nutritional and vitamin supplements. The cobalamin content of the supplements was unknown. When the child was aged approximately 8 months, organic whole-grain cereals and fruit shakes were introduced, but she had a poor appetite and vomited regularly. Her parents became concerned about her growth and development, and she was evaluated by a pediatrician at age 15 months. The pediatrician diagnosed failure to thrive, developmental delay, and severe macrocytic anemia. The child was hospitalized, and cobalamin deficiency was diagnosed (marked elevation [not quantified] of urine methylmalonic acid; serum B12:100 pg/mL [normal range: 210-911 pg/mL]).

The child received supplementary food by mouth and by nasogastric tube. She also received 2 mg of cyanocobalamin and 3 mg of hydroxocobalamin intramuscularly (IM) over 3 days. Three days later, she had partial complex seizures, which stopped without anticonvulsants. A brain MRI indicated global cerebral atrophy. The mother was treated with 1 mg of cobalamin IM.

At age 16 months, the child was seen in a genetics clinic to eliminate possible genetic causes of her neurologic deficiency. At age 28 months, her developmental skills ranged from 9 months for fine motor skills to 18 months for gross motor skills. Her expressive language was at 10 months, and her receptive language was at 12 months. At age 32 months, she had made developmental progress but continued to have developmental delays, especially in speech and language. She was prescribed daily sublingual cobalamin supplements.
 
CdnGuy said:
But been reading alot about the great health gains from cutting it out of our diet. Anyone care to share they experience going vegan? Engery levels, muscle loss or gains etc. Cheers Cdnguy
Click to expand...

I quit eating meat for 16 years. I would have a bite now and then, nothing more.
20 years ago I quit drinking and eating meat. Both were not that hard for me. I've never really been into food, thinking about it, planning it. I'm not remotely a 'foodie'. I hate having a habit like drinking, so I quit.

I was, am, healthy as shit. Now I try to eat red meat no more than once a week. I do eat turkey, fish once in a while (should be a lot more). I was not a vegan. Milk, cheese, eggs. I personally think kids should eat meat until they are adults.

My muscle mass was the same as before. I'm not big, I'm lanky and always will be. I kept my body fat at 10% or less all through my 40's and early 50's. At 58 I had a dexa scan and it was 12%. That's when I started to think about T. I could run 10 miles at the drop of a hat. I lifted the whole time. Big? no. Cut? yes. Not for everyone, it's what worked for me.
My focus was raising 3 kids and working, not strength or BB. Gym 4-5 times a week. Periods of being into running. At 50 I was always stiff and tight. Did 5 years of frequent yoga +gym which really works out the kinks. Gotta be open minded.

The demagogues and ideologues can go fuck themselves.
 
Docd187123 said:
Case study:

Neurologic Impairment in Children Associated With Maternal Dietary Deficiency of Cobalamin—Georgia, 2001

Neurologic Impairment in Children Associated With Maternal Dietary Deficiency of Cobalamin—Georgia, 2001

JAMA. 2003;289:979-980.

MMWR. 2003;52:61-64

2 tables omitted

During 2001, neurologic impairment resulting from cobalamin (vitamin B12) deficiency was diagnosed in two children in Georgia. The children were breastfed by mothers who followed vegetarian diets.* This report summarizes the two cases and provides guidance for health-care providers on identifying and preventing cobalamin deficiency among breastfed infants of vegetarian mothers.


Case 1

During August 2001, a girl aged 15 months was hospitalized for lethargy and failure to thrive. She was born after a full-term pregnancy complicated by prolonged nausea and vomiting. She was breastfed for 8 months, but the extent (exclusivity) of breast milk consumed relative to other food was unknown. Her mother reported following a vegan diet during the preceding 7 years and took nutritional and vitamin supplements. The cobalamin content of the supplements was unknown. When the child was aged approximately 8 months, organic whole-grain cereals and fruit shakes were introduced, but she had a poor appetite and vomited regularly. Her parents became concerned about her growth and development, and she was evaluated by a pediatrician at age 15 months. The pediatrician diagnosed failure to thrive, developmental delay, and severe macrocytic anemia. The child was hospitalized, and cobalamin deficiency was diagnosed (marked elevation [not quantified] of urine methylmalonic acid; serum B12:100 pg/mL [normal range: 210-911 pg/mL]).

The child received supplementary food by mouth and by nasogastric tube. She also received 2 mg of cyanocobalamin and 3 mg of hydroxocobalamin intramuscularly (IM) over 3 days. Three days later, she had partial complex seizures, which stopped without anticonvulsants. A brain MRI indicated global cerebral atrophy. The mother was treated with 1 mg of cobalamin IM.

At age 16 months, the child was seen in a genetics clinic to eliminate possible genetic causes of her neurologic deficiency. At age 28 months, her developmental skills ranged from 9 months for fine motor skills to 18 months for gross motor skills. Her expressive language was at 10 months, and her receptive language was at 12 months. At age 32 months, she had made developmental progress but continued to have developmental delays, especially in speech and language. She was prescribed daily sublingual cobalamin supplements.
Click to expand...

Doc - good reference.

However, according to @Eman and @Morefyah, you're ignorant and/or pathetic. They don't seem to like facts that run against the vegan gospel.
 
New to HRT said:
I quit eating meat for 16 years. I would have a bite now and then, nothing more.
20 years ago I quit drinking and eating meat. Both were not that hard for me. I've never really been into food, thinking about it, planning it. I'm not remotely a 'foodie'. I hate having a habit like drinking, so I quit.

I was, am, healthy as shit. Now I try to eat red meat no more than once a week. I do eat turkey, fish once in a while (should be a lot more). I was not a vegan. Milk, cheese, eggs. I personally think kids should eat meat until they are adults.

My muscle mass was the same as before. I'm not big, I'm lanky and always will be. I kept my body fat at 10% or less all through my 40's and early 50's. At 58 I had a dexa scan and it was 12%. That's when I started to think about T. I could run 10 miles at the drop of a hat. I lifted the whole time. Big? no. Cut? yes. Not for everyone, it's what worked for me.
My focus was raising 3 kids and working, not strength or BB. Gym 4-5 times a week. Periods of being into running. At 50 I was always stiff and tight. Did 5 years of frequent yoga +gym which really works out the kinks. Gotta be open minded.

The demagogues and ideologues can go fuck themselves.
Click to expand...

Sounds like you're a case study in smart eating - a varied diet covering all the bases, all things in moderation. You're not exactly a "meat quitter" - good for you.

My diet is along your lines as well - except I rarely eat red meat (mainly fish, chicken, pork) and I enjoy red wine too, also in moderation.
 
CdnGuy said:
I love meat!! The food that is haha
But been reading alot about the great health gains from cutting it out of our diet. Anyone care to share they experience going vegan? Engery levels, muscle loss or gains etc. Cheers Cdnguy


7 Things That Happen When You Stop Eating Meat
Click to expand...
I dont know bout pushing it that hard...but I did cut out almost all pork and red meat. Just eating fish, seafood, lean turkey and chicken. Almost completely dairy free and just switch my protein powder to veggie based :oops:

I feel pretty good actually, quit the proton pump rx for my gallbladder already after just a few weeks. I take these packs of digestive enzymes, bitters, and kombucha and its amazing how less bloated and distended my stomach is now. Hippy shit really worked for me
 
TANGO.ECHO.KILO said:
I dont know bout pushing it that hard...but I did cut out almost all pork and red meat. Just eating fish, seafood, lean turkey and chicken. Almost completely dairy free and just switch my protein powder to veggie based :oops:

I feel pretty good actually, quit the proton pump rx for my gallbladder already after just a few weeks. I take these packs of digestive enzymes, bitters, and kombucha and its amazing how less bloated and distended my stomach is now. Hippy shit really worked for me
Click to expand...

TEK, sounds like a good diet. Try adding some Korean pickled veggies (kimchi) - that stuff smells funky, but is good for the system.
 
TANGO.ECHO.KILO said:
I dont know bout pushing it that hard...but I did cut out almost all pork and red meat. Just eating fish, seafood, lean turkey and chicken. Almost completely dairy free and just switch my protein powder to veggie based :oops:

I feel pretty good actually, quit the proton pump rx for my gallbladder already after just a few weeks. I take these packs of digestive enzymes, bitters, and kombucha and its amazing how less bloated and distended my stomach is now. Hippy shit really worked for me
Click to expand...
Speaking of the gallbladder, this is the reason I just started exploring other ideas for my health. Change is one of my biggest fears that I can admit too.
 
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