Super high estrogen with barely noticeable sides

[Gorshan]

Started TRT 200mg/week about 2.5 months ago. Everything has felt fine so far. Got my first bloods and holy aromatization. I've had maybe the tiniest anxiety increase but would have guessed I was at the top end of the reference range not triple. Blood pressure is still 120/60 average, no noticeable fluid retention or anything.

Should I be worried about aromatizing this much? I was planning to do a real cycle in a few months but can't imagine what this would be at like 600mg a week.

 

[Craggi]

you could just hop on an ai for the so called "real cycle"

 

[anon55]

I'm at 115 with a little bit less test. Are you on a 5-AR inhibitor?
I control water retention with eplerenone+amiloride.

Regarding your last question, my e2 was almost the same at 400mg of test. The rate at wich aromatase create estradiol from testosterone is limited. It should not go that up.

NB: I have no idea if this level of e2 is healthy or not, except water retention I'm okay, no acne, gyno itches sometimes but surgery is soon so I don't care. Mood swing okay too.

 

[Ghoul]

You're laying the groundwork for gyno. High free T is masking other e2 symptoms, but you'd better keep a very close eye on puffiness. or lumps behind your nipples over the next few months.

Personally I'd bring that down regardless of detectable sides or not. Much easier to prevent gyno than reverse it.

 

[anon55]

You're laying the groundwork for gyno. High free T is masking other e2 symptoms, but you'd better keep a very close eye on puffiness. or lumps behind your nipples over the next few months.

Personally I'd bring that down regardless of detectable sides or not. Much easier to prevent gyno than reverse it.

Ghoul, what do you think to prevent gyno from coming back after surgery to take raloxifene like two a week, same day as injecting?

 

[Gorshan]

You're laying the groundwork for gyno. High free T is masking other e2 symptoms, but you'd better keep a very close eye on puffiness. or lumps behind your nipples over the next few months.

Personally I'd bring that down regardless of detectable sides or not. Much easier to prevent gyno than reverse it.

Could already having gyno cause higher aromatization? I already have noticeable gyno I got during puberty. That being said I haven't noticed any new itchiness or sensitivity.

 

[Gorshan]

I'm at 115 with a little bit less test. Are you on a 5-AR inhibitor?
I control water retention with eplerenone+amiloride.

Regarding your last question, my e2 was almost the same at 400mg of test. The rate at wich aromatase create estradiol from testosterone is limited. It should not go that up.

NB: I have no idea if this level of e2 is healthy or not, except water retention I'm okay, no acne, gyno itches sometimes but surgery is soon so I don't care. Mood swing okay too.

Okay that's good to know. I have next to no symptoms now but was worried if a 600mg/week cycle would put me into dangerous territory. No 5-AR inhibitors, I have some on hand just in case I notice hair problems though. I haven't noticed any mood swings yet except maybe a tiny bit of anxiety

 

[Ghoul]

Could already having gyno cause higher aromatization? I already have noticeable gyno I got during puberty. That being said I haven't noticed any new itchiness or sensitivity.

It can't cause more aromatization, but it does make you more sensitive to estrogen, speeding up further development.

Don't rely on spicy nips. Your pubertal gyno likely developed without that symptom, and again, because of your high free T, you may not feel that despite the insidious work of gyno happening beneath the surface.

Personally I'd bring that down to the top of the physiological range by gently titrating up on aromasin , and checking e2 once a month. Like starting at 6.25mg (1/4 tab), pharma only, 2x a week. You never know if you're a hyper responder and don't want to crash e2, but imo aromasin is "smoother" and the healthiest of the ai's when used carefully,

I'd have raloxifene on hand for an "emergency", because sometimes gyno suddenly appears, and once that tissue is around long enough it becomes fibrous and very difficult to reverse.

 

[Ghoul]

Ghoul, what do you think to prevent gyno from coming back after surgery to take raloxifene like two a week, same day as injecting?

I have raloxifene on hand because of a gyno "scare", but it reversed after getting e2 under control with aromasin, thankfully. So I've never had to use it and can't really speak to it.

Personally I feel much better with midrange e2 mood wise, as well as physically, so have no issue lowering it systemically rather than targeting gyno with ralox.

 

[Gorshan]

It can't cause more aromatization, but it does make you more sensitive to estrogen, speeding up further development.

Don't rely on spicy nips. Your pubertal gyno likely developed without that symptom, and again, because of your high free T, you may not feel that despite the insidious work of gyno happening beneath the surface.

Personally I'd bring that down to the top of the physiological range by gently titrating up on aromasin , and checking e2 once a month. Like starting at 6.25mg (1/4 tab), pharma only, 2x a week. You never know if you're a hyper responder and don't want to crash e2, but imo aromasin is "smoother" and the healthiest of the ai's when used carefully,

I'd have raloxifene in hand for an "emergency", because sometimes gyno suddenly appears very quickly, and once that tissue is around long enough it become sure
fibrous and very difficult to reverse.

Okay thanks good to know that's helpful. I thought growth was almost always accompanied by some kind of physical sensation.

I have some 0.125mg anastrozole tablets from my clinic but have been afraid of overreacting and crashing estrogen so haven't used it yet.

Is the slightly elevated prolactin a concern or does it need to be way higher than reference range to cause issues? I also take Wellbutrin which iirc can sometimes bump that up a tiny bit.

 

[Ateam2023]

Ghoul, what do you think to prevent gyno from coming back after surgery to take raloxifene like two a week, same day as injecting?

what do you mean "after surgery "? If you have gyno surgery, you won't need to worry about gyno, because they remove the gyno,,

 

[dinfar1337]

what do you mean "after surgery "? If you have gyno surgery, you won't need to worry about gyno, because they remove the gyno,,

that depends, as bodybuilders we didnt get it once as teens in our lives and that was the sole reason.

you should explicity tell the hospital you're on anabolics and you want 100% removal of the gyno gland instead of 90% which some procedures do. if you leave 10% they'll very fast grow into that 100% again

 

[anon55]

what do you mean "after surgery "? If you have gyno surgery, you won't need to worry about gyno, because they remove the gyno,,

My surgeon do not want to remove 100% of the gland because of risk of nipple inversion

 

[Ateam2023]

Yank that shif out,,

 

[dinfar1337]

My surgeon do not want to remove 100% of the gland because of risk of nipple inversion

find another surgeon who is willing to take the risk, you're paying after all. theres no use for 90% removal for us. we want it gone forever

 

[Ghoul]

that depends, as bodybuilders we didnt get it once as teens in our lives and that was the sole reason.

you should explicity tell the hospital you're on anabolics and you want 100% removal of the gyno gland instead of 90% which some procedures do. if you leave 10% they'll very fast grow into that 100% again

Yeah gyno has a 15% recurrence rate after surgery because they often leave some glandular tissue under the nipples to keep a normal shape.

From what I understand if you're on TRT or mention ongoing AAS use they recommend using an AI.

Still, once most of the gland is removed, it can never return to the size it once was.

 

[cloudbat]

Your labs look a lot like mine (ratio wise): First Ever Bloodwork

I started running 1/2 tab (12.5mg) Aromasin EOD. I'm due for a retest next week but my sides (back acne) subsided after 2 weeks. I had no other concerning sides. I just aromatize like crazy no matter what.

Gonna blast in about a month or so. Plan is to bump to 500mg but incrase AI to 1/3rd a tab ED (8.3mg). Test blood in 6 weeks and pull back if sides emerge.

If I can't handle 500 without even more AI it means that I'm one of the guys who can't run Test high, or even just high-moderate, in which case I'll pull back to 300 Test and fill out the rest with 200mg of a DHT (I have Mast E).

I would up from 250 to 300 Test when adding in the 200 Mast because of the anti-estrogenic effects of the DHT.

 

[cloudbat]

Could already having gyno cause higher aromatization? I already have noticeable gyno I got during puberty. That being said I haven't noticed any new itchiness or sensitivity.

I also had gyno during puberty but in my case it was so bad I had it surgically removed. After starting Test, around 3 weeks in I did notice a slight increase in itchiness and mild sensitivity around my areola that might have gone unnoticed if I wasn't look for it. I didn't notice any size increase though even around 8-9 weeks.

In the case of my surgery I got the gland pretty much 99% removed.

 

[Gatman]

posted labs in “over 40 section “

same as you high estradiol…100

total test 6k
free test 240

ldl cholesterol 140 (on statins)
all other blood work normal range

no physical side effects
have ordered ai