Strength training, I’m new. But very curious.

[OmL]

For the last 18 months I’ve been following hypertrophic programs(PPL, Arnold split, full body 3x a week and another workout based around drop sets) And my results were what I expect. I am pretty big, standing at 245lbs (6ft 2). But lately, it’s not that I don’t want to continue, I’m just bored of it. Every day, sets of ten-twelve this and sets of ten-twelve that. I look the part but I don’t feel the part.

Today, I started a version of the 5x5 that will be 1) Horizontal push, Horizontal Pull, and deadlifts. 2) Vertical push, vertical pull and squats.

I’m no strength training expert, and what I’ve planned on doing is following g the program for 10-12 weeks (or as long as I progress), and then switch to a 5 sets of 3 to ramp up the strength Intensity. I would imagine then, I’d ramp back down to perhaps a 5x10 version. And then rinse and repeat.

Help me here guys. I don’t compete, and have no intention to. I just want to be as strong as I look. I’m currently blasting for another 12-16 weeks at 500mg test e, after that I’ll be back to a cruise of 175mg a week.

 

[wsmwannabe]

This should be a fun log to watch. I’m along for the ride

 

[NovaFlex]

You mentioned a lot of volume work. Maybe what you’re looking for, if you’re not looking to compete, is more of a HIT style. I’m currently training that way, myself. Power building / Yates style stuff. 5x5 isn’t bad, but you’re not a beginner. I’d look into Ben Pollack’s free power building program, or even the original Blood & Guts, and just add the volume that you see fit.

if you’re looking for more of a powerlifting program with phases and peaking at the end, there’s Greyskul, 5-3-1, 5x5 (which you know), and probably the most reliable being 5th Set.

 

[Eman]

Today, I started a version of the 5x5 that will be 1) Horizontal push, Horizontal Pull, and deadlifts. 2) Vertical push, vertical pull and squats.

Can you elaborate a little bit? Is that day one and day two there?

Are your strength goals specific to powerlifting only? You just want a bigger total of the big 3?

 

[OmL]

Can you elaborate a little bit? Is that day one and day two there?

Are your strength goals specific to powerlifting only? You just want a bigger total of the big 3?

I’m looking to get strong. Workout 1 is focused around bench, row and deadlift. Workout 2 is fo used around overhead press, pull-ups and squats.

As I said I’m just frustrated with being big but not strong, and the more I think about things like the functionality of isolation movements the more I question it. I want to set up a good bass strength level. The kind of thing where week on week I’ll be hitting PR’s as I actually develop strength.

 

[NLM36]

I’m looking to get strong. Workout 1 is focused around bench, row and deadlift. Workout 2 is fo used around overhead press, pull-ups and squats.

As I said I’m just frustrated with being big but not strong, and the more I think about things like the functionality of isolation movements the more I question it. I want to set up a good bass strength level. The kind of thing where week on week I’ll be hitting PR’s as I actually develop strength.

Im following a modified DC split its the same thing I’ve been on for very long time and each workout I’m hitting prs of more weight or more reps. Unless your strength athlete then there’s no need to periodize training. Doing strength and hypertrophy blocks are a waste of time.

 

[cochino]

I like everything you are doing at this point. I'm no expert either. You say you've gained strength but you're unhappy with the results?
Gosh so many things here that you need to in more detail.
In my experience the key to gaining strength is rest. I place rest above diet and training but I'm far from an expert and I'm old so recovery may be a problem lol.
Anyway here's my routine.
Monday chest.
Tuesday Back
Wednesday rest
Thursday legs
Friday shoulders and isolated exercises.

Saturday and Sunday I'm resting.

I know those aren't the programs you follow but those are the ones that have given me my best strength gains.

Edit: 5×5, 5-3-1, are excellent programs and better than what I gave you. Its when you stall. At some point you will and days off are key imo.

 

[fooba]

what are your numbers? what are your accessory movements for the lifts that you want to improve the most?

 

[OmL]

what are your numbers? what are your accessory movements for the lifts that you want to improve the most?

My numbers aren’t actually good at all, despite the size of me. Hence my desire to change. I did 81kg bench yesterday 5x5, I felt relAtively fine by the end so that has to increase a bit for next time, and my meadow-rows were 46kg on a landmine which felt right on my fifth set. My deadlift is something I need to explore to find right numbers, I did 5x5 at 140kg yesterday and I felt I could also do
More. Overhead press is a measly 60kg 5x5 and my pull-ups are body weight so far. Squats are new to me as I tore my sartorius a few years back so I’m prone to my left hip feeling pretty unsupported, I used to just use leg extension machine for my quads. My diet is 90% and my sleep is 90%. I’ll also be hitting calves every day between changing over exercises, body weight cakes on A and weighted on B, for a total Of 9 sets per week. I’ve worked too hard on my calves to neglect them now.

 

[fooba]

My numbers aren’t actually good at all, despite the size of me. Hence my desire to change. I did 81kg bench yesterday 5x5, I felt relAtively fine by the end so that has to increase a bit for next time, and my meadow-rows were 46kg on a landmine which felt right on my fifth set. My deadlift is something I need to explore to find right numbers, I did 5x5 at 140kg yesterday and I felt I could also do
More. Overhead press is a measly 60kg 5x5 and my pull-ups are body weight so far. Squats are new to me as I tore my sartorius a few years back so I’m prone to my left hip feeling pretty unsupported, I used to just use leg extension machine for my quads. My diet is 90% and my sleep is 90%. I’ll also be hitting calves every day between changing over exercises, body weight cakes on A and weighted on B, for a total Of 9 sets per week. I’ve worked too hard on my calves to neglect them now.

id skip the 5x5.
personally id do sets of 3 on bench, then do slightly more volume for movements similar afterwards (floor press, incline, ohp, etc). heavier floor presses afterwards will help with your lockout and build stronger triceps since its something you can go heavier than bench on. but it depends on your body too. youre tall, so id assume you have long arms. this changes things a bit for your bench obviously.
you can also skip the sets of 3 and go for 1 rep around 90% of your max every minute but this isnt something you should do every week. if you do ohp after benching, id probably stay in the 2-4 rep range.

for deadlifts id do something similar as well, occassionally throwing in some high rep sets so that you dont start getting gassed from only doing low reps. secondary movements should be heavy bent over rows/rack pulls. deads and squats are something that you should figure out on your own. your cns will be fucked from doing heavy deads and squats the same week. so maybe do heavy deads and light squats one week then heavy squats the next. this depends on how your body responds.

find out what part of the movements youre weakest at and address those. do your deadlifts and squats suck because you have a weak core? work on bracing your core. are you weak coming off the chest on bench? do pin presses. etc.

most of what ive said is powerlifting ish, not really strong overall, but i think it addresses most of the movements you listed

 

[Worf]

So 5x5’s aren’t the golden rule of strength training but can definitely be useful. Also bench seems to be a lift that requires more frequency than the other lifts. Higher rep stuff on bench is fine but you also need the lower rep ranges on at least a month-month block type progression. You can do DUP type stuff on bench and just run a 3x5 on dead’s and squats for the first month. Progressive overload is key and tons of volume isnt for everyone especially constantly. Keep adding weight and don’t be afraid to progress towards 1-3 rep ranges on lower body exercises. Intensity is probably the best variable to make you stronger on lower body exercises.

 

[NLM36]

Powerlifting Power Program: Westside Conjugate Method
Here’s one I did when I could still use a straight bar.
I’m no PLer but I enjoyed it and numbers shot up

 

[Eman]

I'd ditch the 5x5 unless you're heavily bastardizing it... Which is also probably not advisable until you are a little more of an intermediate when it comes to PLing. But, by that time... Linear periodization probably isn't going to be uber useful to you.

I'm going to make the same recommendation I make to most guys that are interested in trying out strength oriented training. Check out the Juggernaut method - I've learned more about strength from their content than anyone/anywhere else. If you try out the original juggernaut method to get your feet wet, you'll get to set PR's pretty frequently via AMRAPs. Also, I fully recommend the juggernaut AI app they put out, especially for beginners.

All that said, another critique I'd make is to determine what your actual working maxes are for SBD. You sound a little vague when you give an idea of where you stand so, figure those out so you really know for sure.

 

[NovaFlex]

Powerlifting Power Program: Westside Conjugate Method
Here’s one I did when I could still use a straight bar.
I’m no PLer but I enjoyed it and numbers shot up

Conjugate is great, but definitely not for beginners.

 

[NLM36]

Conjugate is great, but definitely not for beginners.

If you read it it’s pretty simple and straightforward.
beginners shouldn’t really do a power lifter program anyway in my opinion. They should work on perfecting form and technique and building work capacity. Working on feeling the muscle, not lifting heavy. They’ll grow from the novel stimulus.

 

[NovaFlex]

If you read it it’s pretty simple and straightforward.
beginners shouldn’t really do a power lifter program anyway in my opinion. They should work on perfecting form and technique and building work capacity. Working on feeling the muscle, not lifting heavy. They’ll grow from the novel stimulus.

Powerlifting is about perfecting form and technique, so I disagree with that 100%. In fact, I’d venture to say that most people who pursue powerlifting early in their lifting careers end up with better form than those who just lift or bodybuild. …YOLO lifters aside.

I didn’t read the link, honestly. I’ve just trained conjugate for 2+ years, so I have a pretty decent grasp of it. Maybe that’s a bastardized version? Because true conjugate relies on the ability to auto regulate, assess and know your weaknesses, pin point which movements will best bring up those weaknesses, and apply volume to them.

Also, in regards to building work capacity—I’m not sure you’ve seen a true powerlifting program… GPP is essential. Singles, dubs and triples are usually only during 1 block (barring conjugate), and the rest of the macro cycle is sub-max work.

 

[NLM36]

Powerlifting is about perfecting form and technique, so I disagree with that 100%. In fact, I’d venture to say that most people who pursue powerlifting early in their lifting careers end up with better form than those who just lift or bodybuild. …YOLO lifters aside.

I didn’t read the link, honestly. I’ve just trained conjugate for 2+ years, so I have a pretty decent grasp of it. Maybe that’s a bastardized version? Because true conjugate relies on the ability to auto regulate, assess and know your weaknesses, pin point which movements will best bring up those weaknesses, and apply volume to them.

Also, in regards to building work capacity—I’m not sure you’ve seen a true powerlifting program… GPP is essential. Singles, dubs and triples are usually only during 1 block (barring conjugate), and the rest of the macro cycle is sub-max work.

I’m very familiar with power lifting and strong man training. In fact I’m very lucky to go to one of the best gyms in America and it’s owned by a strong man/ power lifter. I’m good friends some of the plers there. I see them train constantly and have talked them a lot, also used to study a lot about it years ago.
The link isn’t true conjugate. I’d say it’s more for beginners with everything laid easily and clearly on what to do.
give it a look.
I personally have trained people and unless they want to get into power lifting Id rather teach them to feel the muscle by starting on machines where they require less technique and skill and are prone to injury. They can work on actually squeezing and contracting the muscle as opposed to just moving weight. That’s a different discussion though. As that’s how I was first taught on machines, then dumbbells, then barbells.
if someone came to me with goal of power lifting, strong man, etc I’d introduce them to a guy that does that.

 

[Eman]

They should work on perfecting form and technique and building work capacity.

Oh fella, you should have joined me for day 1 of my hypertrophy block yesterday... If 5x6 Tempo Squats @ 5:0:0 aren't the epitome of increasing work capacity, I don't want to know what is.

A well designed powerlifting program will incorporate every single thing you mentioned. It's a shame more people don't research it because I feel it would cover a lot of people's goals, they just don't realize it because they think it's all sets of 1-3.

Hypertrophy blocks in the earlier phase of a cycle are designed to add muscle and/or build work capacity.

Throughout a strength block, you'd ideally have periods where you'd include technique sets because you have to be training the lifts but sometimes you need to keep intensity on the low end to mitigate fatigue. So, all you can really do is use lighter weight solely to cover your weekly volume and run through your technique.

As far as feeling the muscles, halting deadlifts, those horrible fucking tempos, long pause bench, paused above/below deadlifts/squats... Try any of those and tell me if you felt your muscles, they're all powerlifting movements.

 

[Type-IIx]

My numbers aren’t actually good at all, despite the size of me. Hence my desire to change. I did 81kg bench yesterday 5x5, I felt relAtively fine by the end so that has to increase a bit for next time, and my meadow-rows were 46kg on a landmine which felt right on my fifth set. My deadlift is something I need to explore to find right numbers, I did 5x5 at 140kg yesterday and I felt I could also do
More. Overhead press is a measly 60kg 5x5 and my pull-ups are body weight so far. Squats are new to me as I tore my sartorius a few years back so I’m prone to my left hip feeling pretty unsupported, I used to just use leg extension machine for my quads. My diet is 90% and my sleep is 90%. I’ll also be hitting calves every day between changing over exercises, body weight cakes on A and weighted on B, for a total Of 9 sets per week. I’ve worked too hard on my calves to neglect them now.

Much respect for honesty and not inflating your numbers. Any of the programs, whether it's powerbuilding, 5x5, 5/3/1, etc, you will see progress. Do what you enjoy, so long as you commit to it for at least 3 months. I see a lot of logic to strength phases like you're doing, then moving back to hypertrophy with a PPL or total body routine. Just make sure you work on higher reps with the musculature that a BASIC 5x5 type program might not address and that could lead to injury (core i.e. ALL the abdominal musculature not just rectus abdominis, rotator cuff, serrati, upper back, all the glute musculature besides maximus which squats do address). Successful powerlifters are strong because they built these up enough before heavier spinal loading in my view, in one way or another- but not everyone addresses these weaknesses with the big 3. Also recognize that gear can get you so strong so quickly at the spot you are in that you might (maybe) get injured with heavy spinal loading without enough core strength.

 

[NLM36]

Oh fella, you should have joined me for day 1 of my hypertrophy block yesterday... If 5x6 Tempo Squats @ 5:0:0 aren't the epitome of increasing work capacity, I don't want to know what is.

A well designed powerlifting program will incorporate every single thing you mentioned. It's a shame more people don't research it because I feel it would cover a lot of people's goals, they just don't realize it because they think it's all sets of 1-3.

Hypertrophy blocks in the earlier phase of a cycle are designed to add muscle and/or build work capacity.

Throughout a strength block, you'd ideally have periods where you'd include technique sets because you have to be training the lifts but sometimes you need to keep intensity on the low end to mitigate fatigue. So, all you can really do is use lighter weight solely to cover your weekly volume and run through your technique.

As far as feeling the muscles, halting deadlifts, those horrible fucking tempos, long pause bench, paused above/below deadlifts/squats... Try any of those and tell me if you felt your muscles, they're all powerlifting movements.

I understand what you’re saying. Powerlifting isn’t anything new of foreign to me. I just personally train people how I was taught and I’m just extremely cautious against throwing a bar on somebodies back day one in the gym.
I wouldn’t get somebody to dead lift day either. That’s just me. I understand why someone would. Someone who is more skilled at teaching the movements and ques.
This is what you guys do. A beginner would be great with Dave Tate day one getting them to bb squat, dead lift. But I’m not a power lifter and I don’t specialize in those movements.
I’ve seen a lot of PTs in my time in gyms doing that and I couldn’t believe the form they were letting them use.

ive got several pl books I’ve read cover to cover many times.
the cube method, 531 forever, beyond 531, the west side book of methods