Statins, muscle pain experience? Mitochondrial dysfunction?

[buck]

The language is a bit misleading and needs nuance. Larger LDL fell more sharply in comparison to the smaller, so it made the them higher only in proportion to the original baseline, even though total was lower. That’s also an older observational study showing association, there have been newer and more robust studies done since then.

Linking in case you’re curious.

RCT showing high dose rosu reduced smaller more than low dose therapy.

High-dose statin therapy with rosuvastatin reduces small dense LDL and MDA-LDL: The Standard versus high-dose therApy with Rosuvastatin for lipiD lowering (SARD) trial - PubMed

High-dose statin therapy significantly reduced the sd-LDL and MDA-LDL components of atherosclerotic lipoproteins without adverse events in comparison with low-dose statin therapy.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Study on pita showing the same thing.

Frontiers | Small, Dense Low-Density Lipoprotein-Cholesterol and Atherosclerosis: Relationship and Therapeutic Strategies

Abstract: Low-density lipoprotein cholesterol (LDL-C) plays an important role in the formation, incidence, and development of atherosclerosis (AS). Low-densi...

www.frontiersin.org

I think focusing on life expectancy is too narrow a view. My fil for example is getting a stent put in next month, studies show that treatment for secondary prevention does affect life expectancy. The length of which relies on baseline health when starting. My husband otoh, is 40 and started a statin preventatively. There’s no data on that, but I am hopeful he will die with age related atherosclerosis and not early because of it. For someone like myself, the off values were hormone related and resolved without statins. I doubt my life expectancy would change significantly if I were to use statin therapy, as I don’t have the same risk factors.

Would be interested in reading the Lipitor study if you get a chance to link it.

Just goes to show what i said to read from many sources to decide what is best for ones self. Documentation can be found pro and con. People should decide where the preponderance of good data points to. That affects them. \

Statins are pretty much of no interest for me. My last cholesterol test, never been on a statin was total 105, LDL-C 58, LIPOPROTEIN (a) less then 10, etc. So lowering my levels does not seem like a good idea as the levels i have point to shorter life span from a few studies i have seen Yet with low levels my CAC is 5-6X the average for my age. But no narrowing or blockages.

In the end all cholesterol is needed. Just how much is needed for optimal life span/quality. Hard to find good info on that. As everything is about heart events.

‘Bad’ Cholesterol Not As Bad As People Think, Shows Texas A&M Study

The so-called “bad cholesterol” – low-density lipoprotein commonly called LDL – may not be so bad after all.

stories.tamu.edu

 

[keepbashing]

Was about to jump right into this rabbit hole, but I’ll let @Ghoul handle it since he already pointed out the key points.

Just to throw something out there: bempedoic acid
It might be an option for people experiencing side effects from statins. Since you’re all (hopefully) keeping an eye on your liver enzymes, you should be fine with this one.

I hope you can forgive me for not writing a full-on Lancet-ready paper about bempedoic acid — I’m on hour 20 of a 24-hour shift, tired as hell, and the only reason I’m not asleep is because of some very annoying patients.

 

[thestruggle]

Was about to jump right into this rabbit hole, but I’ll let @Ghoul handle it since he already pointed out the key points.

Just to throw something out there: bempedoic acid
It might be an option for people experiencing side effects from statins. Since you’re all (hopefully) keeping an eye on your liver enzymes, you should be fine with this one.

I hope you can forgive me for not writing a full-on Lancet-ready paper about bempedoic acid — I’m on hour 20 of a 24-hour shift, tired as hell, and the only reason I’m not asleep is because of some very annoying patients.

Speaking of f liver enzymes, mine were consistently elevated, but doctors and the lazy optimistic guy in me always thought it's training-induced.

Cannot find an appointment to run liver imaging tests. One year waiting time (germany).

Do you folks experience the same? Or do you take a week off before running labs?

 

[anon55]

Speaking of f liver enzymes, mine were consistently elevated, but doctors and the lazy optimistic guy in me always thought it's training-induced.

Cannot find an appointment to run liver imaging tests. One year waiting time (germany).

Do you folks experience the same? Or do you take a week off before running labs?

GGT is liver-specific.
Training increases mine at the same level you are currently. I would not be worried if GGT is low.
After 5 days without weight lifting my values usually drop

 

[keepbashing]

Speaking of f liver enzymes, mine were consistently elevated, but doctors and the lazy optimistic guy in me always thought it's training-induced.

Cannot find an appointment to run liver imaging tests. One year waiting time (germany).

Do you folks experience the same? Or do you take a week off before running labs?

ALT and AST are still below twice the upper limit of normal, so the values are only mildly elevated. Without further information and a medical history, I can’t say what the cause might be. If longevity is one of your goals, I would definitely look into the underlying reason and aim to bring the values below 50 U/L. I assume this standard unit was used, since no units were specified, and that’s the norm in Germany.

In what context @anon55 mentioned GGT, which is within the normal range in your case, is not clear to me and has nothing to do with your specific lab.
I’m afraid his post isn’t of any use here.

Und wie du auf ein Jahr Wartezeit für Standard Laborwerte kommst ist mir schleierhaft. Bei einer bestehenden Indikation kann man AST/ALT bei Hausarzt innerhalb von 2-4 Wochen mit Termin bestimmen lassen. Das ist nichts wofür man einen Facharzttermin bräuchte geschweige denn ein ganzes Jahr Wartezeit.

 

[thestruggle]

ALT and AST are still below twice the upper limit of normal, so the values are only mildly elevated. Without further information and a medical history, I can’t say what the cause might be. If longevity is one of your goals, I would definitely look into the underlying reason and aim to bring the values below 50 U/L. I assume this standard unit was used, since no units were specified, and that’s the norm in Germany.

In what context @anon55 mentioned GGT, which is within the normal range in your case, is not clear to me and has nothing to do with your specific lab.
I’m afraid his post isn’t of any use here.

Und wie du auf ein Jahr Wartezeit für Standard Laborwerte kommst ist mir schleierhaft. Bei einer bestehenden Indikation kann man AST/ALT bei Hausarzt innerhalb von 2-4 Wochen mit Termin bestimmen lassen. Das ist nichts wofür man einen Facharzttermin bräuchte geschweige denn ein ganzes Jahr Wartezeit.

Thanks for taking the time to check the values.

The wait is for a "special liver imaging test" as I was told. Unsure what the technical term is.

Appointment for blood serum measurements of liver enzymes are not a problem.

The units are U/L here. While my last values are only lightly elevated, historically they used to be higher. I always thought, it's training induced, and never took any actions. Unsure what should/can I do.

 

[thestruggle]

Thanks for taking the time to check the values.

The wait is for a "special liver imaging test" as I was told. Unsure what the technical term is.

Appointment for blood serum measurements of liver enzymes are not a problem.

The units are U/L here. While my last values are only lightly elevated, historically they used to be higher. I always thought, it's training induced, and never took any actions. Unsure what should/can I do.

Actually, took TUDCA for a while. No effect.

 

[keepbashing]

Thanks for taking the time to check the values.

The wait is for a "special liver imaging test" as I was told. Unsure what the technical term is.

Appointment for blood serum measurements of liver enzymes are not a problem.

The units are U/L here. While my last values are only lightly elevated, historically they used to be higher. I always thought, it's training induced, and never took any actions. Unsure what should/can I do.

There aren’t any specific liver parameters in this case that couldn’t be obtained through a standard lab test at a general practitioner’s office.
What might be meant, however, is an ultrasound of the liver. That would definitely make sense to get an impression of the liver parenchyma and its dimensions. It also provides a useful baseline for later comparison, allowing changes to be tracked over time.

That said, it really shouldn’t take a year to get an appointment for that.

The course over the years, especially in combination with other lab values that have been collected, would indeed be quite informative for the overall assessment.

The most common approaches are exercise, physical activity, dietary changes, and especially endurance training. If that proves ineffective, the next step would be to try a low dose of pitavastatin, or alternatively bempedoic acid. Both with monitoring of liver function tests, not just cholesterol, as well as kidney parameters.

 

[thestruggle]

There aren’t any specific liver parameters in this case that couldn’t be obtained through a standard lab test at a general practitioner’s office.
What might be meant, however, is an ultrasound of the liver. That would definitely make sense to get an impression of the liver parenchyma and its dimensions. It also provides a useful baseline for later comparison, allowing changes to be tracked over time.

That said, it really shouldn’t take a year to get an appointment for that.

The course over the years, especially in combination with other lab values that have been collected, would indeed be quite informative for the overall assessment.

The most common approaches are exercise, physical activity, dietary changes, and especially endurance training. If that proves ineffective, the next step would be to try a low dose of pitavastatin, or alternatively bempedoic acid. Both with monitoring of liver function tests, not just cholesterol, as well as kidney parameters.

Thank you for the valuable information.

I do low, medium and high intensity cardio during the week, but so far that has not helped to get liver enzymes in range.

I think I should run the labs after a week of rest for the starters to have a better baseline.

 

[keepbashing]

Thank you for the valuable information.

I do low, medium and high intensity cardio during the week, but so far that has not helped to get liver enzymes in range.

I think I should run the labs after a week of rest for the starters to have a better baseline.

My mistake. I didn’t quite remember your post correctly. It was the transaminases that were primarily elevated, right? Or are LDL/triglycerides also elevated and HDL decreased?

What does your diet look like? Have you already tried making improvements in that area? Otherwise, discuss the issue again with your general practitioner. They should take a complete medical history and check whether there’s an underlying cause that can be addressed.

Otherwise, the question remains what kind of PEDs you’re using and whether you’re taking or have taken any orals.

Sorry, at the moment I only manage to read messages and posts briefly during my 24h shifts or breaks.