Severe water retention on 12iu GH

[benjaminnetenyahu]

My last cycle I ran 12iu SSA HGH. No issues. Ran test and EQ 1:1 ratio and felt great. I held minimal water.

This cycle I’m running a bit higher doses of test and EQ but still 1:1 ratio. The only difference is I ran dbol as a kickstart as I was ramping up my HGH from 4-12iu coming out of a cut. Dbol bloated me like crazy (inch +2 inches in a week) and I looked like a bag of milk almost instantly with water weight.

It has been well over a month since off shop and every bit of water I had from dbol is still here. Even after temporarily dropping HGH, and doing PSMF for a few days. Dropped 11lbs of water in 2 days. Then slowly ramped the HGH up again and water is all back immediately.

I look like I’m still dbol and I can’t shake this water weight off. When I take off my socks there is massive indents in my leg.

I should also mention, last cycle, I didn’t even have my electrolytes balanced and I ate much higher fat. Diet is even more buttoned up this time

How do I fix this?

 

[Elektrobot]

When I take off my socks there is massive indents in my leg.

What's your blood pressure?

When is the last time you checked cystatin C

 

[benjaminnetenyahu]

BP runs high 120s/70s. Last time I checked was before this cycle started. Everything looked normal

What's your blood pressure?

When is the last time you checked cystatin C

 

[Elektrobot]

Everything looked normal

Whats normal?

Normal for gen pop?

Upload your last labs

Are you checking your blood pressure every day?

 

[BALLISTIC]

Aldosterone is the hormone that tells your kidneys to hold onto sodium and water. Dbol is notorious for cranking it up, and GH also stimulates the same pathway. Even after the dbol is gone, aldosterone can stay elevated or super sensitive.

You can drop a ton of water fast with PSMF or pulling HGH, but as soon as gh comes back, the water snaps back. Getting sock indent edema instead of just puffy/bloat.

This isn’t fat or glycogen, it’s sodium driven extracell fluid. Chasing it with more dieting or pulling carbs just makes aldosterone rebound harder.

That’s also where estrogen ties in big if E2 is too low, aldosterone activity actually goes up, making the water retention worse. To many old school negatives still in circulation.

With a 1:1 ratio, Dbol is just masking your symptoms. While contributing to those your describing.

I don't think this BP is high at all. What is your baseline.

 

[benjaminnetenyahu]

Whats normal?

Normal for gen pop?

Upload your last labs

Are you checking your blood pressure every day?

If I remember correctly it was 1.10mg/L. Unfortunately lost bloods in my old email, broke my phone. Yes BP checks every day

 

[benjaminnetenyahu]

Aldosterone is the hormone that tells your kidneys to hold onto sodium and water. Dbol is notorious for cranking it up, and GH also stimulates the same pathway. Even after the dbol is gone, aldosterone can stay elevated or super sensitive.

You can drop a ton of water fast with PSMF or pulling HGH, but as soon as gh comes back, the water snaps back. Getting sock indent edema instead of just puffy/bloat.

This isn’t fat or glycogen, it’s sodium driven extracell fluid. Chasing it with more dieting or pulling carbs just makes aldosterone rebound harder.

That’s also where estrogen ties in big if E2 is too low, aldosterone activity actually goes up, making the water retention worse. To many old school negatives still in circulation.

With a 1:1 ratio, Dbol is just masking your symptoms. While contributing to those your describing.

I don't think this BP is high at all. What is your baseline.

Oh I mean high 120s. 127/83 is around where I land every day. 80mg telmisartan daily to help regulate + fasted cardio. Do you know how long the aldosterone will stick around? Currently I am doing a mini cut for 3-4 weeks to reset insulin sensitivity and drop some body fat. I have pulled GH entirely out

 

[Elektrobot]

1.10mg/L.

If it was 1.10 before you started your cycle and now you have edema dents from socks, you should get it checked again

Depending on which lab it was 1.10 is right at the threshold for early CKD detection.

80mg telmisartan /day might be masking something

"Telmisartan can cause high potassium levels (hyperkalemia) and affect kidney function, potentially masking underlying renal deterioration or causing it to be overlooked until more severe symptoms appear."

 

[benjaminnetenyahu]

If it was 1.10 before you started your cycle and now you have edema dents from socks, you should get it checked again

Depending on which lab it was 1.10 is right at the threshold for early CKD detection.

80mg telmisartan /day might be masking something

"Telmisartan can cause high potassium levels (hyperkalemia) and affect kidney function, potentially masking underlying renal deterioration or causing it to be overlooked until more severe symptoms appear."

Will get that checked, thanks brotha

 

[BALLISTIC]

Oh I mean high 120s. 127/83 is around where I land every day. 80mg telmisartan daily to help regulate + fasted cardio. Do you know how long the aldosterone will stick around? Currently I am doing a mini cut for 3-4 weeks to reset insulin sensitivity and drop some body fat. I have pulled GH entirely out

Average can be between 2 to 8weeks after the causation is removed. Longer if it keeps getting stimulated hgh ramps, low sodium, low E2, crash dieting will prolong.

What screws people up is they think Dbol gone, so the problem should be gone. But hormonally, that’s not how it works. Once aldosterone is upregulated kdneys become hypersensitive to sodium retention. Hgh reactivates the pathway instantly. Low sodium / aggressive dieting makes it worse, not better. Low or unstable E2 removes the brake on aldosterone. So the clock doesn’t really start until HGH dose is stable, sodium is consistent, and E2 isn’t suppressed abnormally.

If it was 1.10 before you started your cycle and now you have edema dents from socks, you should get it checked again

Depending on which lab it was 1.10 is right at the threshold for early CKD detection.

80mg telmisartan /day might be masking something

"Telmisartan can cause high potassium levels (hyperkalemia) and affect kidney function, potentially masking underlying renal deterioration or causing it to be overlooked until more severe symptoms appear."

This, ↑↑↑↑ get every kidney marker checked, you'll more than likely have an issue. Not to scare, I've had bad kidney issues, and if you catch it early, you're quite capable of full recovery despite previously known medical research. I almost died for instance taking injectable Sdrol and Tren ignoring the symptoms. Again not a scare, your doing the right thing inquiring, and taking action immediately.

Pick one HGH dose 4 to 6 IU could be ideal from where you are currently. Hold it unchanged for 10 to 14 days. No ramping, no cycling, no pulling it again, then abruptly reintroducing.

Normalize sodium instead of slashing it entirely. This is counterintuitive but critical. Do NOT cut sodium aggressively, keep sodium consistent day to day, cutting sodium spikes aldosterone into rebound edema Most dudes worsen this by cleaning to hard.

This directly antagonizes aldosterone at the kidney. Potassium: 4 to 5 g/day, magnesium 400 to 600 mg/day. This alone can reduce sock edema within days.

Eplerenone or low dose spironolactone used temporarily 7 to 14 days. Unfortunately a prescription and if your going this route the DR is going to pull labs entirely anyway. Eplerenone and spironolactone are aldosterone antagonists. They don’t flush water like a diuretic, they block the signal telling your kidneys to retain sodium and water.

But again man, many times when this occurs kidneys are somewhat compromised. Also avoid the sauna, I didn't know if you use, but it will temporarily remove symptoms, then hit hard again once hydrated again.

Edit: ignore potassium advice, telmisartan, I didn't catch that.

Also disregard HGH rec, as you stated you pulled it completely.

 

[benjaminnetenyahu]

Average can be between 2 to 8weeks after the causation is removed. Longer if it keeps getting stimulated hgh ramps, low sodium, low E2, crash dieting will prolong.

What screws people up is they think Dbol gone, so the problem should be gone. But hormonally, that’s not how it works. Once aldosterone is upregulated kdneys become hypersensitive to sodium retention. Hgh reactivates the pathway instantly. Low sodium / aggressive dieting makes it worse, not better. Low or unstable E2 removes the brake on aldosterone. So the clock doesn’t really start until HGH dose is stable, sodium is consistent, and E2 isn’t suppressed abnormally.


This, ↑↑↑↑ get every kidney marker checked, you'll more than likely have an issue. Not to scare, I've had bad kidney issues, and if you catch it early, you're quite capable of full recovery despite previously known medical research. I almost died for instance taking injectable Sdrol and Tren ignoring the symptoms. Again not a scare, your doing the right thing inquiring, and taking action immediately.

Pick one HGH dose 4 to 6 IU could be ideal from where you are currently. Hold it unchanged for 10 to 14 days. No ramping, no cycling, no pulling it again, then abruptly reintroducing.

Normalize sodium instead of slashing it entirely. This is counterintuitive but critical. Do NOT cut sodium aggressively, keep sodium consistent day to day, cutting sodium spikes aldosterone into rebound edema Most dudes worsen this by cleaning to hard.

This directly antagonizes aldosterone at the kidney. Potassium: 4 to 5 g/day, magnesium 400 to 600 mg/day. This alone can reduce sock edema within days.

Eplerenone or low dose spironolactone used temporarily 7 to 14 days. Unfortunately a prescription and if your going this route the DR is going to pull labs entirely anyway. Eplerenone and spironolactone are aldosterone antagonists. They don’t flush water like a diuretic, they block the signal telling your kidneys to retain sodium and water.

But again man, many times when this occurs kidneys are somewhat compromised. Also avoid the sauna, I didn't know if you use, but it will temporarily remove symptoms, then hit hard again once hydrated again.

Edit: ignore potassium advice, telmisartan, I didn't catch that.

Also disregard HGH rec, as you stated you pulled it completely.

Appreciate the write up man thank you! I had an ER visit a few weeks ago (unrelated to PEDs) and the ER doctor said my kidney and liver enzymes were in healthy ranges with my liver enzymes just slightly elevated. Still wouldn’t hurt for me to get actual bloods. It’s been a minute. What’s your opinion on aquazide? I have some on the way and was planning on using it to shed some water if it piles on again. If things go how they went a little over a month ago, all the excess water should be gone in 2 more days of me mini cutting, only issue is rebounding

 

[BALLISTIC]

Appreciate the write up man thank you! I had an ER visit a few weeks ago (unrelated to PEDs) and the ER doctor said my kidney and liver enzymes were in healthy ranges with my liver enzymes just slightly elevated. Still wouldn’t hurt for me to get actual bloods. It’s been a minute. What’s your opinion on aquazide? I have some on the way and was planning on using it to shed some water if it piles on again. If things go how they went a little over a month ago, all the excess water should be gone in 2 more days of me mini cutting, only issue is rebounding

Don't mention it bro, I'm super functional ADHD I think haha. If I'm interested in something I become a book of useless knowledge. With that, I'm no expert, and just giving you one area to consider. I could be totally off base and wrong. I have a friend recently dealing with edema on 1 ankle, leaving sock impressions. Literally out of curiosity I started researching, and you happened to post this. Coincidence.

I'd be lying if I said I knew, so I had to look it up. It seems Aquazide will drop the water, but it's only treating the symptoms, not cause. Report back though because I'm always curious to learn. I just have no knowledge/experience... To say either way.

Yeah man you're in a tough spot, it's always tough trying to figure the reasoning out, when your doing everything right and labs correlate.

It's obviously late now for many, but in the morning others may chime in with further advice.

 

[Eddie.]

Not to scare, I've had bad kidney issues, and if you catch it early, you're quite capable of full recovery despite previously known medical research. I almost died for instance taking injectable Sdrol and Tren ignoring the symptoms. Again not a scare, your doing the right thing inquiring, and taking action immediately.

What symptoms did you experience? As I’ve said many times here kidneys is my worst nightmare and already had a somewhat scary cystatin c. This happened last year, I did a full panel right before I start my cutting blast including cystatin c for the first time (it’s very uncommon test in my country).

Results came out 1,2 BUT with the upper limit of my lab being at 1,5. Creatinine was 0,94.

I did my blast and used tren for the last 8 weeks. Did labs again and cystatin c came out 0,91 (still with upper limit 1,5) and creatinine around 1. Urine test showed no protein, no HGB and glucose.

It’s still a mystery to me. In 3 weeks I’ll test again before proceeding to my cutting blast.

 

[CorgisOnTren]

are fluids and electrolytes consistent?