Severe water retention on 12iu GH

My last cycle I ran 12iu SSA HGH. No issues. Ran test and EQ 1:1 ratio and felt great. I held minimal water.

This cycle I’m running a bit higher doses of test and EQ but still 1:1 ratio. The only difference is I ran dbol as a kickstart as I was ramping up my HGH from 4-12iu coming out of a cut. Dbol bloated me like crazy (inch +2 inches in a week) and I looked like a bag of milk almost instantly with water weight.

It has been well over a month since off shop and every bit of water I had from dbol is still here. Even after temporarily dropping HGH, and doing PSMF for a few days. Dropped 11lbs of water in 2 days. Then slowly ramped the HGH up again and water is all back immediately.

I look like I’m still dbol and I can’t shake this water weight off. When I take off my socks there is massive indents in my leg.

I should also mention, last cycle, I didn’t even have my electrolytes balanced and I ate much higher fat. Diet is even more buttoned up this time

How do I fix this?
 
Aldosterone is the hormone that tells your kidneys to hold onto sodium and water. Dbol is notorious for cranking it up, and GH also stimulates the same pathway. Even after the dbol is gone, aldosterone can stay elevated or super sensitive.

You can drop a ton of water fast with PSMF or pulling HGH, but as soon as gh comes back, the water snaps back. Getting sock indent edema instead of just puffy/bloat.

This isn’t fat or glycogen, it’s sodium driven extracell fluid. Chasing it with more dieting or pulling carbs just makes aldosterone rebound harder.

That’s also where estrogen ties in big if E2 is too low, aldosterone activity actually goes up, making the water retention worse. To many old school negatives still in circulation.

With a 1:1 ratio, Dbol is just masking your symptoms. While contributing to those your describing.

I don't think this BP is high at all. What is your baseline.
 
Aldosterone is the hormone that tells your kidneys to hold onto sodium and water. Dbol is notorious for cranking it up, and GH also stimulates the same pathway. Even after the dbol is gone, aldosterone can stay elevated or super sensitive.

You can drop a ton of water fast with PSMF or pulling HGH, but as soon as gh comes back, the water snaps back. Getting sock indent edema instead of just puffy/bloat.

This isn’t fat or glycogen, it’s sodium driven extracell fluid. Chasing it with more dieting or pulling carbs just makes aldosterone rebound harder.

That’s also where estrogen ties in big if E2 is too low, aldosterone activity actually goes up, making the water retention worse. To many old school negatives still in circulation.

With a 1:1 ratio, Dbol is just masking your symptoms. While contributing to those your describing.

I don't think this BP is high at all. What is your baseline.
Oh I mean high 120s. 127/83 is around where I land every day. 80mg telmisartan daily to help regulate + fasted cardio. Do you know how long the aldosterone will stick around? Currently I am doing a mini cut for 3-4 weeks to reset insulin sensitivity and drop some body fat. I have pulled GH entirely out
 
1.10mg/L.
If it was 1.10 before you started your cycle and now you have edema dents from socks, you should get it checked again

Depending on which lab it was 1.10 is right at the threshold for early CKD detection.

80mg telmisartan /day might be masking something

"Telmisartan can cause high potassium levels (hyperkalemia) and affect kidney function, potentially masking underlying renal deterioration or causing it to be overlooked until more severe symptoms appear."
 
If it was 1.10 before you started your cycle and now you have edema dents from socks, you should get it checked again

Depending on which lab it was 1.10 is right at the threshold for early CKD detection.

80mg telmisartan /day might be masking something

"Telmisartan can cause high potassium levels (hyperkalemia) and affect kidney function, potentially masking underlying renal deterioration or causing it to be overlooked until more severe symptoms appear."
Will get that checked, thanks brotha
 
Oh I mean high 120s. 127/83 is around where I land every day. 80mg telmisartan daily to help regulate + fasted cardio. Do you know how long the aldosterone will stick around? Currently I am doing a mini cut for 3-4 weeks to reset insulin sensitivity and drop some body fat. I have pulled GH entirely out

Average can be between 2 to 8weeks after the causation is removed. Longer if it keeps getting stimulated hgh ramps, low sodium, low E2, crash dieting will prolong.

What screws people up is they think Dbol gone, so the problem should be gone. But hormonally, that’s not how it works. Once aldosterone is upregulated kdneys become hypersensitive to sodium retention. Hgh reactivates the pathway instantly. Low sodium / aggressive dieting makes it worse, not better. Low or unstable E2 removes the brake on aldosterone. So the clock doesn’t really start until HGH dose is stable, sodium is consistent, and E2 isn’t suppressed abnormally.

If it was 1.10 before you started your cycle and now you have edema dents from socks, you should get it checked again

Depending on which lab it was 1.10 is right at the threshold for early CKD detection.

80mg telmisartan /day might be masking something

"Telmisartan can cause high potassium levels (hyperkalemia) and affect kidney function, potentially masking underlying renal deterioration or causing it to be overlooked until more severe symptoms appear."
This, ↑↑↑↑ get every kidney marker checked, you'll more than likely have an issue. Not to scare, I've had bad kidney issues, and if you catch it early, you're quite capable of full recovery despite previously known medical research. I almost died for instance taking injectable Sdrol and Tren ignoring the symptoms. Again not a scare, your doing the right thing inquiring, and taking action immediately.

Pick one HGH dose 4 to 6 IU could be ideal from where you are currently. Hold it unchanged for 10 to 14 days. No ramping, no cycling, no pulling it again, then abruptly reintroducing.

Normalize sodium instead of slashing it entirely. This is counterintuitive but critical. Do NOT cut sodium aggressively, keep sodium consistent day to day, cutting sodium spikes aldosterone into rebound edema Most dudes worsen this by cleaning to hard.

This directly antagonizes aldosterone at the kidney. Potassium: 4 to 5 g/day, magnesium 400 to 600 mg/day. This alone can reduce sock edema within days.

Eplerenone or low dose spironolactone used temporarily 7 to 14 days. Unfortunately a prescription and if your going this route the DR is going to pull labs entirely anyway. Eplerenone and spironolactone are aldosterone antagonists. They don’t flush water like a diuretic, they block the signal telling your kidneys to retain sodium and water.

But again man, many times when this occurs kidneys are somewhat compromised. Also avoid the sauna, I didn't know if you use, but it will temporarily remove symptoms, then hit hard again once hydrated again.

Edit: ignore potassium advice, telmisartan, I didn't catch that.

Also disregard HGH rec, as you stated you pulled it completely.
 
Average can be between 2 to 8weeks after the causation is removed. Longer if it keeps getting stimulated hgh ramps, low sodium, low E2, crash dieting will prolong.

What screws people up is they think Dbol gone, so the problem should be gone. But hormonally, that’s not how it works. Once aldosterone is upregulated kdneys become hypersensitive to sodium retention. Hgh reactivates the pathway instantly. Low sodium / aggressive dieting makes it worse, not better. Low or unstable E2 removes the brake on aldosterone. So the clock doesn’t really start until HGH dose is stable, sodium is consistent, and E2 isn’t suppressed abnormally.


This, ↑↑↑↑ get every kidney marker checked, you'll more than likely have an issue. Not to scare, I've had bad kidney issues, and if you catch it early, you're quite capable of full recovery despite previously known medical research. I almost died for instance taking injectable Sdrol and Tren ignoring the symptoms. Again not a scare, your doing the right thing inquiring, and taking action immediately.

Pick one HGH dose 4 to 6 IU could be ideal from where you are currently. Hold it unchanged for 10 to 14 days. No ramping, no cycling, no pulling it again, then abruptly reintroducing.

Normalize sodium instead of slashing it entirely. This is counterintuitive but critical. Do NOT cut sodium aggressively, keep sodium consistent day to day, cutting sodium spikes aldosterone into rebound edema Most dudes worsen this by cleaning to hard.

This directly antagonizes aldosterone at the kidney. Potassium: 4 to 5 g/day, magnesium 400 to 600 mg/day. This alone can reduce sock edema within days.

Eplerenone or low dose spironolactone used temporarily 7 to 14 days. Unfortunately a prescription and if your going this route the DR is going to pull labs entirely anyway. Eplerenone and spironolactone are aldosterone antagonists. They don’t flush water like a diuretic, they block the signal telling your kidneys to retain sodium and water.

But again man, many times when this occurs kidneys are somewhat compromised. Also avoid the sauna, I didn't know if you use, but it will temporarily remove symptoms, then hit hard again once hydrated again.

Edit: ignore potassium advice, telmisartan, I didn't catch that.

Also disregard HGH rec, as you stated you pulled it completely.
Appreciate the write up man thank you! I had an ER visit a few weeks ago (unrelated to PEDs) and the ER doctor said my kidney and liver enzymes were in healthy ranges with my liver enzymes just slightly elevated. Still wouldn’t hurt for me to get actual bloods. It’s been a minute. What’s your opinion on aquazide? I have some on the way and was planning on using it to shed some water if it piles on again. If things go how they went a little over a month ago, all the excess water should be gone in 2 more days of me mini cutting, only issue is rebounding
 
Appreciate the write up man thank you! I had an ER visit a few weeks ago (unrelated to PEDs) and the ER doctor said my kidney and liver enzymes were in healthy ranges with my liver enzymes just slightly elevated. Still wouldn’t hurt for me to get actual bloods. It’s been a minute. What’s your opinion on aquazide? I have some on the way and was planning on using it to shed some water if it piles on again. If things go how they went a little over a month ago, all the excess water should be gone in 2 more days of me mini cutting, only issue is rebounding
Don't mention it bro, I'm super functional ADHD I think haha. If I'm interested in something I become a book of useless knowledge. With that, I'm no expert, and just giving you one area to consider. I could be totally off base and wrong. I have a friend recently dealing with edema on 1 ankle, leaving sock impressions. Literally out of curiosity I started researching, and you happened to post this. Coincidence.

I'd be lying if I said I knew, so I had to look it up. It seems Aquazide will drop the water, but it's only treating the symptoms, not cause. Report back though because I'm always curious to learn. I just have no knowledge/experience... To say either way.

Yeah man you're in a tough spot, it's always tough trying to figure the reasoning out, when your doing everything right and labs correlate.

It's obviously late now for many, but in the morning others may chime in with further advice.
 
Not to scare, I've had bad kidney issues, and if you catch it early, you're quite capable of full recovery despite previously known medical research. I almost died for instance taking injectable Sdrol and Tren ignoring the symptoms. Again not a scare, your doing the right thing inquiring, and taking action immediately.

What symptoms did you experience? As I’ve said many times here kidneys is my worst nightmare and already had a somewhat scary cystatin c. This happened last year, I did a full panel right before I start my cutting blast including cystatin c for the first time (it’s very uncommon test in my country).

Results came out 1,2 BUT with the upper limit of my lab being at 1,5. Creatinine was 0,94.

I did my blast and used tren for the last 8 weeks. Did labs again and cystatin c came out 0,91 (still with upper limit 1,5) and creatinine around 1. Urine test showed no protein, no HGB and glucose.

It’s still a mystery to me. In 3 weeks I’ll test again before proceeding to my cutting blast.
 
What symptoms did you experience? As I’ve said many times here kidneys is my worst nightmare and already had a somewhat scary cystatin c. This happened last year, I did a full panel right before I start my cutting blast including cystatin c for the first time (it’s very uncommon test in my country).

Results came out 1,2 BUT with the upper limit of my lab being at 1,5. Creatinine was 0,94.

I did my blast and used tren for the last 8 weeks. Did labs again and cystatin c came out 0,91 (still with upper limit 1,5) and creatinine around 1. Urine test showed no protein, no HGB and glucose.

It’s still a mystery to me. In 3 weeks I’ll test again before proceeding to my cutting blast.

GH dose was the same with different cys c results or did you change your dose?
 
What symptoms did you experience? As I’ve said many times here kidneys is my worst nightmare and already had a somewhat scary cystatin c. This happened last year, I did a full panel right before I start my cutting blast including cystatin c for the first time (it’s very uncommon test in my country).

Results came out 1,2 BUT with the upper limit of my lab being at 1,5. Creatinine was 0,94.

I did my blast and used tren for the last 8 weeks. Did labs again and cystatin c came out 0,91 (still with upper limit 1,5) and creatinine around 1. Urine test showed no protein, no HGB and glucose.

It’s still a mystery to me. In 3 weeks I’ll test again before proceeding to my cutting blast.
Absolutely dude and here's the whole story. I'm sorry I don't have all my numbers from back then, but little things did matter. Your not fear mongering dude, your right and it's terrifying.

In my case, I did have symptoms, they just escalated fast and initially felt like I was getting sick.

It started with daily nausea, especially in the mornings, followed by extreme lethargy. At first I felt nauseous when drinking water but could manage small amounts. Over a few days it progressed to the point where even a sip of water caused violent vomiting, and I became severely dehydrated. This want the start and I was ignorant with the below...↓↓↓

Around the same time I noticed abnormally dark urine, then foaming, and even an oily looking residue that would settle at the bottom of the bowl. I honestly thought I had the flu or a GI illness. Stomach bug, or flu onset.

After 3 or 4 days of barely keeping fluids down, my resting heart rate suddenly jumped to 135 bpm, which finally pushed me to the ER. Told my wife let's go at around 11pm.

In the ER they ruled out stroke and heart attack first. Labs and urine came back bad eGFR was below 40, heavy proteinuria, trace blood, elevated creatinine, and kidney markers through the roof. There was minor bacteria in the urine, which the doctor felt was secondary, not the cause, and likely occurred after the right kidney was already compromised. It progressed to rhabdomyolysis, and I ended up in the ICU for a week on aggressive IV fluids and medications to flush the kidneys.

I was placed on a strict renal style diet essentially a dialysis diet limiting protein and removing several foods known to strain the kidneys. That alone was sobering. That diet is for peasants.

The scariest part was the conversation at 39 years old about the real possibility of needing dialysis multiple times per week, and that if things didn’t turn, a full transplant could eventually be on the table. I’m not inherently religious and mean no disrespect to anyone who is, but that day I started praying.

I came completely clean about PED use. The physician was actually very progym and pro AAS when monitored correctly. Strange but also uniquely comforting with no judgement. After further testing and long conversations, his conclusion was that trenbolone and Superdrol were the main contributors. Various other labs took place after I came clean, and the medical staff was extremely understanding and were able to do their job effectively and efficiently knowing the full picture.

The DR was very direct in his experience, tren and SD hospitalize people far more often than most compounds. He didn’t rule tren out permanently, but advised never exceeding 100 mg, and emphasized that humans tend to be reckless with it. As for Superdrol, he said it should be trashed entirely, the risk doesn’t outweigh the reward, especially since you’re mostly getting temporary strength with little retained benefit.

The positive ending...with treatment, hydration, and compliance, my eGFR stabilized above 60, and I was discharged. I completed weekly labs for 3 months, showing steady improvement, then moved to every 90 days, and now twice annually.
I’m turning 42 soon, and both the ER physician and my primary care doctor have openly said they’re blown away. They’ve even commented that the old belief of once a kidney is damaged, it’s too late isn’t necessarily true, and I’m living proof.
Hands down, the scariest health event I’ve ever experienced.

Now ever time I get nauseous I have the worst PTSD. I immediately gravitate to the worst. Needless to say I've tried to explain the risk be reward factor to many. I will mention I've cycled since this, at first it was only heavy T and HGH. Then last year I ran heavy T and EQ but out of an abundance of caution I spent thousands in personal labs just to reassure myself. These labs were on top of physician required, and to this day my primary care and I speak openly about my health and what I'm taking. Total relief factor.
 
GH dose was the same with different cys c results or did you change your dose?

Gs was the same, 1/3 of lobster’s vial so around 3,5IU. After taking the latest full labs back before my off season blast I cranked it up to 8IU.

Absolutely dude and here's the whole story. I'm sorry I don't have all my numbers from back then, but little things did matter. Your not fear mongering dude, your right and it's terrifying.

In my case, I did have symptoms, they just escalated fast and initially felt like I was getting sick.

It started with daily nausea, especially in the mornings, followed by extreme lethargy. At first I felt nauseous when drinking water but could manage small amounts. Over a few days it progressed to the point where even a sip of water caused violent vomiting, and I became severely dehydrated. This want the start and I was ignorant with the below...↓↓↓

Around the same time I noticed abnormally dark urine, then foaming, and even an oily looking residue that would settle at the bottom of the bowl. I honestly thought I had the flu or a GI illness. Stomach bug, or flu onset.

After 3 or 4 days of barely keeping fluids down, my resting heart rate suddenly jumped to 135 bpm, which finally pushed me to the ER. Told my wife let's go at around 11pm.

In the ER they ruled out stroke and heart attack first. Labs and urine came back bad eGFR was below 40, heavy proteinuria, trace blood, elevated creatinine, and kidney markers through the roof. There was minor bacteria in the urine, which the doctor felt was secondary, not the cause, and likely occurred after the right kidney was already compromised. It progressed to rhabdomyolysis, and I ended up in the ICU for a week on aggressive IV fluids and medications to flush the kidneys.

I was placed on a strict renal style diet essentially a dialysis diet limiting protein and removing several foods known to strain the kidneys. That alone was sobering. That diet is for peasants.

The scariest part was the conversation at 39 years old about the real possibility of needing dialysis multiple times per week, and that if things didn’t turn, a full transplant could eventually be on the table. I’m not inherently religious and mean no disrespect to anyone who is, but that day I started praying.

I came completely clean about PED use. The physician was actually very progym and pro AAS when monitored correctly. Strange but also uniquely comforting with no judgement. After further testing and long conversations, his conclusion was that trenbolone and Superdrol were the main contributors. Various other labs took place after I came clean, and the medical staff was extremely understanding and were able to do their job effectively and efficiently knowing the full picture.

The DR was very direct in his experience, tren and SD hospitalize people far more often than most compounds. He didn’t rule tren out permanently, but advised never exceeding 100 mg, and emphasized that humans tend to be reckless with it. As for Superdrol, he said it should be trashed entirely, the risk doesn’t outweigh the reward, especially since you’re mostly getting temporary strength with little retained benefit.

The positive ending...with treatment, hydration, and compliance, my eGFR stabilized above 60, and I was discharged. I completed weekly labs for 3 months, showing steady improvement, then moved to every 90 days, and now twice annually.
I’m turning 42 soon, and both the ER physician and my primary care doctor have openly said they’re blown away. They’ve even commented that the old belief of once a kidney is damaged, it’s too late isn’t necessarily true, and I’m living proof.
Hands down, the scariest health event I’ve ever experienced.

Now ever time I get nauseous I have the worst PTSD. I immediately gravitate to the worst. Needless to say I've tried to explain the risk be reward factor to many. I will mention I've cycled since this, at first it was only heavy T and HGH. Then last year I ran heavy T and EQ but out of an abundance of caution I spent thousands in personal labs just to reassure myself. These labs were on top of physician required, and to this day my primary care and I speak openly about my health and what I'm taking. Total relief factor.

Oh wow, I’d be scared to death. You’re truly a lucky person. Truth is I notice urine go darker while on tren, it’s a common thing.

So far from my ped experience I had only one kidney scare (besides that cystatin c) and it was from anavar. 50mg a day and couple weeks in I woke up most days with a deep acute kidney pain like a stab. It didn’t went away unless I ate my breakfast and then move around. I searched afterwards and I realised even on this board there’s almost a dozen people mentioning kidney pain while on var. I don’t think I’ll try it again..
 
Around 5g taurine spread out over the day plus telmisartan and keeping electrolytes in check, supplementing with mag glycinate is what got rid of my water. Even if I overeat junk on deca/dbol it's like I can't puff myself up anymore
 
Wow thank you for the fantastic info @BALLISTIC I was dealing with all these water retention issues for my current cycle. I've managed to completely resolve it by just changing variables carefully, but tbh I had no idea what I was doing. I also had no idea low E2 could have been involved. Your post shed a lot of light on why what I did worked. level3's training log: running, bodybuilding, and yoga is my cycle log if anyone wants to check it out. I more or less did everything that @BALLISTIC suggested and it worked. Went from major bloating, ankle edema, and acute compartment syndrome to dropping nearly all the water weight I added and am extremely happy now and can finish out my cycle happy and lean.
 
Wow thank you for the fantastic info @BALLISTIC I was dealing with all these water retention issues for my current cycle. I've managed to completely resolve it by just changing variables carefully, but tbh I had no idea what I was doing. I also had no idea low E2 could have been involved. Your post shed a lot of light on why what I did worked. level3's training log: running, bodybuilding, and yoga is my cycle log if anyone wants to check it out. I more or less did everything that @BALLISTIC suggested and it worked. Went from major bloating, ankle edema, and acute compartment syndrome to dropping nearly all the water weight I added and am extremely happy now and can finish out my cycle happy and lean.
Awesome man, I'm happy to hear that sincerely. Over the last few months I've really been deep diving into E, and it seems the fear of this historically portrayed in AAS forums needs to stop. I don't have an opinion towards extremes generally but find higher E2 to be incorrectly looked at. I started this to bring discussion forward... And less towards E is the enemy.

Thread 'Aromatase Inhibitors Fix the Number but Break the System, open discussion.' https://thinksteroids.com/community...t-break-the-system-open-discussion.134435455/
 

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