Russia begins invasion of Ukraine

Yes, a lot higher. That's what it costs Russia to extract, $42-$44 plus $10-$12 per barrel to ship. So you can see why selling it to China and India for $30 is an issue.

I don't see it as any different than Joe Biden selling our strategic oil reserves in order to help himself in the midterm elections.

For all we know, that's oil coming from some Russian strategic reserves. Surely they have them as well.

I'm not sure where your going with this.

You're acting like Washington can bankrupt the Russian federation with sanctions only a relatively modest part of the world will agree to.

I think that's a naive and arrogant perspective. There's still plenty of big economic players out there willing to trade with Russia. Some may even do it just to thumb their noses at Washington.

I read somewhere just last week that China, Russia and India are recording record levels of trade and commerce.

I just can't fathom the childishness in thinking Washington can snap it's fingers and bankrupt the Russian federation with sanctions because Joe Biden says so and the rest of the world will comply.

For fucks sake dude, they haven't managed to bankrupt North Korea much less Iran in 30 years and with one hell of alot more competent administration's than Joe Bidens.
Get some sense here man

Washington CANNOT starve Russia into compliance. You should kick yourself in the ass for believing that nonsense.

I realize Washington press corps may be saying something like that, but those are stupid , dishonest people that work for stupid downright wretchedly dishonest people.

Plus, they live in a bubble where they only hear themselves
 
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Lmfao

"Cheap weapons to poor countries"

According to this military equipment analysis, Russia makes the best air defense systems in the world.

They've got several in the top 10 and the number 1 air defense battery is also Russian made. Supposed to be even better than the Israeli iron dome.

That doesn't support your assertion of a primitive and technologically challenged country scraping by.

But of one with excellent research and development capabilities combined with well staffed and highly skilled engineering and tradesperson manufacturing capabilities.

Again @hometeam you should read something other than propoganda from the same small circle of dishonest and stupid people. Because your narrative and the shit you say just doesn't make sense


View: https://youtu.be/6Edkyh9lMck
 
Well, those oil revenue numbers come from Russia, and they could be lying so we don't hurt them too bad. The cap is going to be something like a thermostat we ratchet up and down to see how badly it's affecting Russia, what it's output and revenues are.

Oil sales are trackable for most of the world, and when Russia is selling their oil to China and India at $33/barrel just to keep the industry going, that's something even the Saudis would lose money on and it costs the Saudis much less to extract their oil than it costs Russia.

The one thing the CIA has good intelligence on is Russia, so we can get a good idea what their revenues look like and the world industry has a pretty good idea what it costs them to produce and ship their oil.


Russia has no new allies because of this - just Iran, North Korea, Belarus and Syria. Everybody knows who is right and wrong here. It's not like people are saying "oh poor Russia, being bullied by the West." They invaded a sovereign country who was keeping to themselves and did not threaten anybody or ask for it. Nobody can relate to or excuse that, countries have an image to worry about. China wants to look as neutral as possible so they can mediate.


And your conspiracy theories are not on CNN because they have no foundation in reality, it's just fantasy.


How is that a fact? In fact Russia does not have areas they specifically and publicly said they wanted.


They're certainly not being delivered right now.


They were a major military supplier to poor countries who wanted cheap arms. After seeing how they performed on the battlefield, we'll see if that continues to be the case in the future.
You are so funny
 
You are so funny

He's an idiot.

He thinks his propoganda is truth and that his leadership is something like holy apostles.

He thinks the world needs people like him to rule over them for their own good, because they're not smart enough to rule themselves.

He doesn't comprehend that most of the Arab world wants his leadership in Washington out. That they want Washington out of Syria, Libya and Iraq and to stop trying to control the world's energy market. Because that oil belongs to the people who live in those lands and not his heroes in Washington. Because he thinks he and his holy leadership should rule the earth by some bizarre type of divine right.

He's totally totally mistaken and an idiot of large proportions that's only going to understand when his leadership gets gutted and his way of life is taken away.

Then he'll deny he ever said any of this stupid shit, and proclaim his loyalty to whoever comes out on top in the struggle.

That's called a gutless cunt in English and a monsieur's sans couilles in Cajun. Or something like homme sans testicules in classic French....I think

There's little hope for him either way
 
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I don't see it as any different than Joe Biden selling our strategic oil reserves in order to help himself in the midterm elections.
Yes. They are selling their reserves, to pay the bills. But also it costs money to shut down production and re-start it.

I'm not sure where your going with this.

You're acting like Washington can bankrupt the Russian federation with sanctions only a relatively modest part of the world will agree to.
Ah. Now you're starting to understand. It's not that we can't implode their economy - we probably could implode it with only soft power and smart power, and certainly could by giving by giving the Ukrainians the kinetic power to. It's just that we don't want to.

A Russia with an imploded economy, as gratuitous as that sounds, does nobody any good. We spent a decade helping them rebuild their economy. We spent several decades trying to Westernize them, even though they feel the need to Russify their neighbors.

I'm not sure you realize this but Russia can't get a loan right now, so the moment they run a deficit they are done. They start stealing from Peter to pay Paul, and that can only go on for so long before the government can't pay the bills and shuts the doors. That's scary for a country with 5,000 nukes.

Europe wants to lower the oil price cap, and some say it should be as low as $30 because we shouldn't pay more than India or China, but the Biden administration is saying "hold on now, we need to study and analyze this first"

A few bucks a barrel could be the difference between crippling them so they can't fund the war, and imploding them where we have to start tracking their nukes and sending them aid, helping them keep order.

This is where I ask you, if you could pick a country to be the sole superpower who would it be? I'm not sure Russia or China would show as much mercy on a country that states they are their enemy.
 
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You're talking out your ass when you say components can't be interchangeable. I work on machinery for a living. Very few things cannot be substituted for something else.
Then you can ask your engineers how long it would take to do a rework swapping 30+ Western components out of a Kalibr missile for Chinese ones, and he would tell you years. On a war footing, maybe 8-16 months if you're lucky but you'd have to get the Chinese companies making it a top priority, some of it would need to be built from scratch. It's not like this isn't rocket science. ;)
 
According to this military equipment analysis, Russia makes the best air defense systems in the world.
Yeah they have to worry about the US Air Force and Navy (and those of Europe) so air defense and hypersonic missiles have been their priority. And we fell behind because we were funding 2 wars in the middle east at the same time where that tech wasn't needed. But we're investing back into those areas again.

But they couldn't afford to develop and build hypersonic missiles without Indian investment into Brahmos. Russia tried to get similar investment from India into stealth jets through the PAK-FA program but India pulled out because it didn't meet India's requirements for stealth, combat avionics, radars and sensors. So Russia has just a handful of Su-57s. Sweden is becoming the preferred seller of cheap fighter jets. Russia created some revolutionary tank protypes with the T-14 but again couldn't afford to produce it.

So they've got a couple things they can point to as very advanced but they've mostly been a poor mans supplier. This war isn't a very good advertisement for buying their equipment either. There was a time 30 years ago when you could debate who had the better equipment, but that time has long passed and they are legendary for overstating their capabilities.

HMARS and javelins aren't only on backorder because of low stocks, they're getting new orders from new countries all over the world.
 
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Ukrainian armies have been smashed.
Well, you've been telling us for weeks that artillery is devastating the Ukrainians in Bakhmut, they are running out of soldiers, grabbing 15 yr old boys off the street and the US will have no choice but to send our soldiers to the Ukrainian front lines next - otherwise Zelensky will need to surrender, right?

Now, Russia's offensive has culminated and stalled, right? With nothing to show for it. It turns out it was really Russia who was taking unsustainable losses in Bakhmut and they can no longer continue with their offensive at that intensity.
"Russia's military strategy is no longer to "attack" in eastern Ukraine, as Kyiv "solves several problems" by investing further resources in the contested city of Bakhmut, according to an ex-Kremlin aide.
Moscow's fighters, meanwhile, have to "wait for a big offensive" and then "try to defeat it," deciding whether or not to approach a possible peace accord or fight back, Markov wrote."


So now, in the next few months Ukraine is expected to amass forces and push towards Belgorod; try to sever the land bridge to Crimea. Here's what the ISW wrote:
Prominent voices in the Russian information space are increasingly setting information conditions to prepare for a potential Ukrainian counteroffensive.
Russian Security Council Deputy Head Dmitry Medvedev emphasized on March 24 that the Russian General Staff is aware that Kyiv is preparing for offensive operations and that the Russian General Staff is considering its own decisions and responses to prepare for a Ukrainian offensive.[1] A prominent Russian milblogger claimed that Ukrainian actors are disseminating disinformation about plans for a Ukrainian attack towards Belgorod Oblast, in order to draw Russian troops to border areas and allow Ukrainian troops to launch attacks on other sectors of the front, partially echoing Wagner Group financier Yevgeny Prigozhin’s prior warnings about a Ukrainian push on Belgorod Oblast.[2] Another Russian milblogger warned that Ukrainian forces will likely try to launch a counteroffensive before the Russian defense industrial base (DIB) gains the capacity to increase production and bolster Russian defensive potential.[3] Wagner Group financier Yevgeny Prigozhin similarly claimed on March 23 that he knows of plans for an extensive Ukrainian counteroffensive, as ISW previously reported.[4] The wider Russian spring offensive appears to be culminating, and the Russian information space appears to be responding to the slow-down of Russian operations and potential for Ukraine to regain the initiative with substantial anxiety.[5] Russian military command will need to commit a significant number of forces to the frontline to either prevent culmination or launch renewed offensive operations, and it is unlikely that such forces exist at sufficient scale to do either.

So, now that Russia is losing again Putin is starting rattle the nuclear saber:

@Hughinn Once Ukraine amasses forces, starts an offensive and starts taking territory back will you apologize for using scare tactics, spreading Russian propaganda, claiming they are running out of soldiers and our boys are next?
 
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Yes. They are selling their reserves, to pay the bills. But also it costs money to shut down production and re-start it.

We start and stop oil production here all of the time.

Joe Biden selling the strategic reserve to help himself in midterm elections is a new one.

But neither is evidence of an economic system crashing.

And neither is Russia selling cheap energy during wartime



Ah. Now you're starting to understand. It's not that we can't implode their economy - we probably could implode it with only soft power and smart power, and certainly could by giving by giving the Ukrainians the kinetic power to. It's just that we don't want to.

Lmfao...
What arrogance, what ignorance, what impetuous, childish illusions of grandeur.

Lying bitch as well.

If Washington could have crashed Russian economy, they would have done it by now

A Russia with an imploded economy, as gratuitous as that sounds, does nobody any good. We spent a decade helping them rebuild their economy. We spent several decades trying to Westernize them, even though they feel the need to Russify their neighbors.

We spent a decade raping the corpse of the Soviet Union.

Never tried to "help" anybody


I'm not sure you realize this but Russia can't get a loan right now, so the moment they run a deficit they are done. They start stealing from Peter to pay Paul, and that can only go on for so long before the government can't pay the bills and shuts the doors. That's scary for a country with 5,000 nukes.

Horseshit.
China has openly stayed it's open to do business with Russia.

They'll certainly float any loan Russia may require.

However, unlike Washington, Russia has very little debt

Washington cannot stop any of it.


Europe wants to lower the oil price cap, and some say it should be as low as $30 because we shouldn't pay more than India or China, but the Biden administration is saying "hold on now, we need to study and analyze this first"

A few bucks a barrel could be the difference between crippling them so they can't fund the war, and imploding them where we have to start tracking their nukes and sending them aid, helping them keep order.

Washington doesn't control the world markets anymore


This is where I ask you, if you could pick a country to be the sole superpower who would it be? I'm not sure Russia or China would show as much mercy on a country that states they are their enemy.

I've already told you.

I think it's arrogant, narcissist and fascistic and fuckin sick to pretend like all of the diverse people of the world should be governed by one centralized authority that dictates policies for all of humankind.

It's western liberalism pushing some bizarre type of world empire under the disguise of utopianism.

It will ultimately fail just like it failing now.

So you cheer on your hometeam empire all you want you sick bitch, as I watch it crash like the Hindenburg. Because you have no idea what you're looking at

What you can't comprehend is that empire is not a program, or a policy,, it is a process, like rust or erosion. Every empire eventually eats its own because it always keeps pushing further, further until its allies start to balk and then become targets themselves. That process never stops unless it’s forced to. Because the model is not sustainable. Eventually it eats everything it can, then eats itself.

We're watching it eat itself right now. As our elites get more and more desperate and cling to what power they have.

This is it. This the decent into the ashes of history for the Washington liberalism dominating the world

One sorry ass bitch is all you really are
 
Then you can ask your engineers how long it would take to do a rework swapping 30+ Western components out of a Kalibr missile for Chinese ones, and he would tell you years. On a war footing, maybe 8-16 months if you're lucky but you'd have to get the Chinese companies making it a top priority, some of it would need to be built from scratch. It's not like this isn't rocket science. ;)

In other words, you know I'm right.

Almost anything can be substituted.

Besides that, Washington sanctions on chips haven't worked out anyway
 
Yeah they have to worry about the US Air Force and Navy (and those of Europe) so air defense and hypersonic missiles have been their priority. And we fell behind because we were funding 2 wars in the middle east at the same time where that tech wasn't needed. But we're investing back into those areas again.

In other words, they built a military specifically to counter our own, and we built a military to bully goat herders, jihadis and defenseless poor provinces that weren't paying up.

Why don't you just tell it like it is?



But they couldn't afford to develop and build hypersonic missiles without Indian investment into Brahmos. Russia tried to get similar investment from India into stealth jets through the PAK-FA program but India pulled out because it didn't meet India's requirements for stealth, combat avionics, radars and sensors. So Russia has just a handful of Su-57s. Sweden is becoming the preferred seller of cheap fighter jets. Russia created some revolutionary tank protypes with the T-14 but again couldn't afford to produce it.

You just keep on parroting the party line bullshit. It's maddening

How about we just acknowledge the facts.
Russia is one of the biggest arms dealers on the planet. Easily in the top 5 at least Fact

Russia makes high end air defense weapons for higher end clients. Fact

Russian artillery is probably the best in the world. Arguably fact

Russian Jets and bombers are viable options and rivals to what the US makes and governments like China use them.

But it's best stuff is artillery and missel batteries along with top notch air defense systems.

I think we can both agree on that.



So they've got a couple things they can point to as very advanced but they've mostly been a poor mans supplier. This war isn't a very good advertisement for buying their equipment either.

Really?

Because Russian artillery accounts for at least 75% of ukranian casualties.

Russian long range artillery and missel batteries have destroyed nearly half of the infrastructure in Ukraine and keeps the power grid down in most of the country

And Russian air defense systems utterly destroyed the Ukrainian air force while Russia used very few aircraft in the beginning.

So you talk alot of shit. But a rational person looking at this without your bullshit blinders of propoganda and catch slogans sees one hell of an artillery and missle arsenal that's been used very effectively.

If I was in the market to create a large infantry force on the mainland of a large continent. I'd take them over anyone else any day.

And be honest here, without the heavy air support that can strike at will, unchallenged any time it wants against a defenseless force, our own infantry has never been tested like this.


There was a time 30 years ago when you could debate who had the better equipment, but that time has long passed and they are legendary for overstating their capabilities.

Lmfao.

Again, you contradict yourself.

Obviously Russia has superior artillery and air defense systems.



HMARS and javelins aren't only on backorder because of low stocks, they're getting new orders from new countries all over the world.

No, they're on backorder because Ukraine has already burned through the entire NATO stockpile of these weapons.

And only managed to slow down the Russians
 
Well, you've been telling us for weeks that artillery is devastating the Ukrainians in Bakhmut, they are running out of soldiers, grabbing 15 yr old boys off the street and the US will have no choice but to send our soldiers to the Ukrainian front lines next - otherwise Zelensky will need to surrender, right?

Now, Russia's offensive has culminated and stalled, right? With nothing to show for it. It turns out it was really Russia who was taking unsustainable losses in Bakhmut and they can no longer continue with their offensive at that intensity.
"Russia's military strategy is no longer to "attack" in eastern Ukraine, as Kyiv "solves several problems" by investing further resources in the contested city of Bakhmut, according to an ex-Kremlin aide.
Moscow's fighters, meanwhile, have to "wait for a big offensive" and then "try to defeat it," deciding whether or not to approach a possible peace accord or fight back, Markov wrote."


So now, in the next few months Ukraine is expected to amass forces and push towards Belgorod; try to sever the land bridge to Crimea. Here's what the ISW wrote:
Prominent voices in the Russian information space are increasingly setting information conditions to prepare for a potential Ukrainian counteroffensive.
Russian Security Council Deputy Head Dmitry Medvedev emphasized on March 24 that the Russian General Staff is aware that Kyiv is preparing for offensive operations and that the Russian General Staff is considering its own decisions and responses to prepare for a Ukrainian offensive.[1] A prominent Russian milblogger claimed that Ukrainian actors are disseminating disinformation about plans for a Ukrainian attack towards Belgorod Oblast, in order to draw Russian troops to border areas and allow Ukrainian troops to launch attacks on other sectors of the front, partially echoing Wagner Group financier Yevgeny Prigozhin’s prior warnings about a Ukrainian push on Belgorod Oblast.[2] Another Russian milblogger warned that Ukrainian forces will likely try to launch a counteroffensive before the Russian defense industrial base (DIB) gains the capacity to increase production and bolster Russian defensive potential.[3] Wagner Group financier Yevgeny Prigozhin similarly claimed on March 23 that he knows of plans for an extensive Ukrainian counteroffensive, as ISW previously reported.[4] The wider Russian spring offensive appears to be culminating, and the Russian information space appears to be responding to the slow-down of Russian operations and potential for Ukraine to regain the initiative with substantial anxiety.[5] Russian military command will need to commit a significant number of forces to the frontline to either prevent culmination or launch renewed offensive operations, and it is unlikely that such forces exist at sufficient scale to do either.

So, now that Russia is losing again Putin is starting rattle the nuclear saber:

@Hughinn Once Ukraine amasses forces, starts an offensive and starts taking territory back will you apologize for using scare tactics, spreading Russian propaganda, claiming they are running out of soldiers and our boys are next?

Most of this is bullshit propoganda.

You're resorting back to the copy and paste propoganda and not talking to me directly again, so I'm not going to answer.

The last part in bold is you, so I'll oblige that.

@Hughinn Once Ukraine amasses forces, starts an offensive and starts taking territory back will you apologize for using scare tactics, spreading Russian propaganda, claiming they are running out of soldiers and our boys are next?

I don't see how they can amass the force necessary.

They've lost probably three whole armies already and have few people left.
While the Russian side for example is much stronger, better trained and equipped, manned and mobilized that at any point before.

I don't see any reason to send off anymore Ukrainian people to die for a pipe dream.

Without direct intervention by all of NATO, and maybe not even then, this thing is going to play out with Ukraine losing territory.

Ukraine did this to themselves when they tried to purge ethnic Russian people and started shelling civilians in the Donbass.

The longer they take to negotiate, the more territory they'll have to give up.

That's the reality.

You're in pure fantasyland thinking the corpse of the Ukrainian military is coming roaring back to life and retake everything they've lost
 
@hometeam see below, this isn't you. This is a propagandist that you're quoting

Russia's military strategy is no longer to "attack" in eastern Ukraine, as Kyiv "solves several problems" by investing further resources in the contested city of Bakhmut, according to an ex-Kremlin aide.
Moscow's fighters, meanwhile, have to "wait for a big offensive" and then "try to defeat it," deciding whether or not to approach a possible peace accord or fight back, Markov wrote."

Now I know how much you like to hear this sort of propoganda and cheerleader for it.

But this is bullshit. It doesn't match the reality at all.

I followed the bakmut battle closely myself and I believe historians will debate this for a long time, most will come to the conclusion that it was a terrible loss for the Ukrainian forces.

The propoganda above is stupid.

Russia surrounded that place and bombarded it for months. And I think, why not? They've got large concentrations of ukranian forces all clumped together like sitting ducks behind cardboard walls. So just fire away. That's what I'd do. No need to hurry.

Then they allowed one road in and out and sorta let the Ukrainian forces go if they wanted to, that confused me until I thought it over.

Then it makes sense. Let the ones who want to run, go ahead and run. Just less to fight you when the time comes to enter with foot soldiers. And if the Ukrainian forces are dumb enough to keep sending reinforcements, then just keep sitting back and pounding them out until they exhaust themselves.

Once they've exhausted themselves and wised up enough to realize leaving the one road open was a trap, seal it off and send in the mercenaries for the block by block knife work to gut out whatever is left of the Ukrainian defense and seal off the region with the army.

It didn't go off perfectly. But it worked.

Cut out the bullshit propoganda. Consider that maybe there are competent military strategists in the Russian army and think for yourself.

I don't see Washington as having any real military strategy's here and certainly no achievable military path to victory here.

They've seem to invested soley in a Media campaign and propoganda strategy instead.
 
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Absolutely fucking disgusting.
Fuck you Paul.

You go ahead and be proud of a bunch of people bombing little brown men wearing sandals and riding camels that have no way to defend themselves from it.

Proud? No, not me. Not at all.

But honestly, I'm impressed.

Fact is Paul, these people you and that idiot keep saying are inferior and incompetent have whipped three NATO armies in quick succession and are gaining effectiveness and strength while doing it.

I'm not to goddamn arrogant or delusional to believe these people are inferior to the US military. Or deny that they've proved otherwise

Because the US military of today has never faced an entrenched adversary as strong as itself on equal terms.

They literally run and fuckin hide from the prospect.
So be proud of that bitch
 
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I'd be proud if our own lying greedy senile bastard of a leader would admit we were wrong meddling in the political process of Ukraine and broker a peace that paid mind to the wishes of both ethnic Russian and ukranian people in Ukraine while also respectful of the security concerns of other nations around.

Instead of talking crazy assed delusional shit from the sidelines and throwing gasoline on an out of control fire he helped create

Because I got news for you Paul, despite what the arrogant bastards in Washington say and the stupid slogans coming from the mouth of that walking corpse that's supposed to be in charge, Washington DC and NATO cannot win this proxy war in Ukraine.

Obviously they thought they were hot shit. But it turns out that Russia is not Iraq or Afghanistan and is not going to lay down and get kicked like a dog because the self proclaimed master's of the universe in Washington snapped thier fingers.

So roll that up and stick it
 
Fuck you Paul.

You go ahead and be proud of a bunch of people bombing little brown men wearing sandals and riding camels that have no way to defend themselves from it.

Proud? No, not me. Not at all.

But honestly, I'm impressed.

Fact is Paul, these people you and that idiot keep saying are inferior and incompetent have whipped three NATO armies in quick succession and are gaining effectiveness and strength while doing it.

I'm not to goddamn arrogant or delusional to believe these people are inferior to the US military. Or deny that they've proved otherwise

Because the US military of today has never faced an entrenched adversary as strong as itself on equal terms.

They literally run and fuckin hide from the prospect.
So be proud of that bitch
No fuck you cunt. Talk all your putin lip lock cocksucking bullshit Pravda propaganda you degenerate fucking moron, but the fact is your butt buddy invavaded Ukraine not the other way around.
 
You would be happier with this bitch you dumb fucking cunt.
 

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