Russia begins invasion of Ukraine

[Hughinn]

war war war war

You're going to have a difficult time convincing some of these people that reality is far different than the fantasy world they've been told to believe in.

These types of Americans are some of the most heavily indoctrinated and propogandized people on earth.

For example just look at the stupid shit they say from an objective position.

1- Putin is a megalomaniac cartoon supervillain bent on world domination. He's the modern equivalent of Hitler and must be stopped at all costs before he succeeds in making the entire world a facists dictatorship of depravity and misery for his own personal satisfaction.

But.... he's not going to Nuke the world over Ukraine

2- Russia is an evil empire full of orc-people that's going to take over all of Europe then the rest of the world. And this is a real threat we should all be terrified of.

But, Russia is a third rate power totally incapable of defeating the poorest most destitute country in Eastern Europe.

3- Washington did not orchestrate a coup in Ukraine in 2014 it was simply a totally organic uprising not connected in any way by the billions of dollars the state department had been pumping into Ukraine for the stated goal of regime change.

Because it's totally normal for a completely organic uprising of nationalist elements in a country to demand the presence of foreign propoganda networks and corporate interests in it's "totally organic popular uprising"


This is just a few examples of the confusing endless stream of bizarre contradictions and illogically defined truisms these people believe in.

They'll simply hate you for calling it out instead of question their own beliefs. These people worship government and in a way are totally cult driven in their sort of group think mentality.

I'm not even sure most of them really believe the bullshit they say. It's more about them proclaiming loyalty to their God kings than actually believing in the things they say. It seems the more ridiculous it is, the louder and more aggressively they'll defend it. Not because they believe it, but because they need to profess themselves part of that sort of cult driven set of loyalties.

While this behavior can also be seen in some sect's of the American right, it has completely enveloped and defines the modern American left.

The indoctrination, the propoganda and the desire to conform will override most any logical observation you can show them. The endless slogans and catch phrases, the accusations of being a traitor or something in addition to the endless excuses and circulatory arguments that lead back to the same patterns of denial, excuses then accusations and hostility are neverending.

In short, these people are fucked up. Fucked up bad. They're totally brainwashed and completely lacking in originality and fortitude.

You won't convert them. Or even get them to open their own eyes.

They'll simply hate you, howl the same old trigger words they've been trained to use and respond to in kind and despise you for not conforming to their herd mentality

 

[Hughinn]

war war war war

I'd also add that Joe Biden and Barak Obama admit to ordering 542 drone strikes while in office, resulting in the deaths of 3,797 people, including 542 civilians.

and that's just what they admit to from press reports and filings. The real number is probably close to double


but these idiots celebrate Obama and literally gave him a Nobel peace prize.

they think Joe Biden is an honest old man, but still couldn't give you any reason why a corrupt Eastern European ogliarchy would pay the crackhead son of Joe Biden millions of dollars for a cushy no show job except to bribe Joe Biden.

but that doesn't matter.

They hate Donald Trump because CNN MSNBC and DNC propoganda networks all told them he was a "Russian asset" and they've been taught to hate Russia, hate working class white Americans and to hate the bad orange man that represented them.

They don't fully understand why, but why is not as important as professing these dogmas to prove their fealty to the group. It's not even important that these dogmas don't make sense.

Take @Zebedee for example. He thinks Putin is a megalomaniac cartoon supervillain bent on world domination.

It doesn't matter how ridiculous that is. It's the only thing that makes sense when he discounts offhand the long and tumultuous history that has led us to this point.
He cannot accept the fact his own government has lied, betrayed and connived thier way into yet another war.

So he discounts the reality that irresponsible policy driven by greed and lust for power among his own god kings in Washington has largely predetermined this end result of war and suffering.
He discounts that reality in favor of the fantasy that reinforces the indoctrination and propoganda he's been subjected to and reduces the situation down to "Putin is a megalomaniac cartoon supervillain bent on world domination" and it's only "US and the good guys standing against the bad guys to save the world"


Because that narrative is completely ingrained in him deep in his psyche. Has been planted there from early in his childhood years and reinforced at every turn.

Combine that with a weak or absent father figure and you have no independent reasoning or rugged male individualistic thinking present to counteract the fairytales.
Instead it's a forceful and aggressive need to comply with the group and enforce/reinforce that dogma to legitimize it within himself.

It's really some scary shit. There's millions like him.

Even worse though, is that idiot @hometeam

It's almost a Sci Fi zombie apocalypse like scenario. Just not like Hollywood portrayed it.

 

[Big_paul]

Everyone has an opinion.

 

[Fautquejyaille]

You're going to have a difficult time convincing some of these people that reality is far different than the fantasy world they've been told to believe in.

These types of Americans are some of the most heavily indoctrinated and propogandized people on earth.

For example just look at the stupid shit they say from an objective position.

1- Putin is a megalomaniac cartoon supervillain bent on world domination. He's the modern equivalent of Hitler and must be stopped at all costs before he succeeds in making the entire world a facists dictatorship of depravity and misery for his own personal satisfaction.

But.... he's not going to Nuke the world over Ukraine

2- Russia is an evil empire full of orc-people that's going to take over all of Europe then the rest of the world. And this is a real threat we should all be terrified of.

But, Russia is a third rate power totally incapable of defeating the poorest most destitute country in Eastern Europe.

3- Washington did not orchestrate a coup in Ukraine in 2014 it was simply a totally organic uprising not connected in any way by the billions of dollars the state department had been pumping into Ukraine for the stated goal of regime change.

Because it's totally normal for a completely organic uprising of nationalist elements in a country to demand the presence of foreign propoganda networks and corporate interests in it's "totally organic popular uprising"


This is just a few examples of the confusing endless stream of bizarre contradictions and illogically defined truisms these people believe in.

They'll simply hate you for calling it out instead of question their own beliefs. These people worship government and in a way are totally cult driven in their sort of group think mentality.

I'm not even sure most of them really believe the bullshit they say. It's more about them proclaiming loyalty to their God kings than actually believing in the things they say. It seems the more ridiculous it is, the louder and more aggressively they'll defend it. Not because they believe it, but because they need to profess themselves part of that sort of cult driven set of loyalties.

While this behavior can also be seen in some sect's of the American right, it has completely enveloped and defines the modern American left.

The indoctrination, the propoganda and the desire to conform will override most any logical observation you can show them. The endless slogans and catch phrases, the accusations of being a traitor or something in addition to the endless excuses and circulatory arguments that lead back to the same patterns of denial, excuses then accusations and hostility are neverending.

In short, these people are fucked up. Fucked up bad. They're totally brainwashed and completely lacking in originality and fortitude.

You won't convert them. Or even get them to open their own eyes.

They'll simply hate you, howl the same old trigger words they've been trained to use and respond to in kind and despise you for not conforming to their herd mentality

Yes

 

[hometeam]

Tbh I already knew where he stood on this before I read that post because I’d seen him raise the same issues that Holocaust deniers & Nazi / German apologists always raise to try & draw equivalence between Nazi Germany’s actions & those of the British & Americans during the war, eg the air raid on Dresden.

I was just encouraging him to fully show his colours really - notice how he says “lots of Jews” rather than “5-6 million” lol.

Fuck knows why the Soviets would need to invent the “myth of the gas chambers” to make the Germans look bad because the Germans had already done a splendid job of it themselves - around 1.5 million Soviet soldiers died as POWs in German captivity during the first 6 months of the German invasion. That’s just the Soviet POWs they killed.

Anyway, it’s pointless engaging with Nazi cunts like him.

BUT the immense scale of the death & destruction the Germans wrought on the Soviet people is an incredibly important factor in why many Russians, including Putin, see the world (& behave) as they do. It’s not something anyone in the West can relate to really - to put it into perspective, those 1.5 million Soviet POWs killed between June-Dec 1941is somewhere near the number of combined British & American military personnel KIA in both World Wars, plus the British civilians killed in German air / rocket attacks during both World Wars.

Putin isn’t just an evil megalomaniac. He’s a product of history & it’s a history that goes back long before the breakup of the Soviet Union.

It is interesting how important history is to them. Putin actually wrote a 5,000 word history essay to justify his war, made it required reading for the military.

On the Historical Unity of Russians and Ukrainians - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And historians will tell you a lot of their history is heavily revisionist history too. As someone who lives in a country that's 300 yrs old and state that's 150 yrs old it's hard to relate.

One thing former Finland PM and geopolitics professor Alexander Stubb says about Putin I thought was interesting is that Putin is at a point of his life where he's thinking about this legacy, and Putin would rather be compared to Stalin and Peter the Great than Gorbachev. Gorbachev was the most West friendly leader they've had.

Putin is also the product of history that seen the end of the cold war and the rape of the Russian people at the hands of the western globalist banking cartels.

Redirect Notice

Actually, Russians wish the banking cartels robbed them instead of the oligarchs. In the US the banks rob us every day and we're the wealthiest country. Your link doesn't even say that's what happened, it says corrupt Russians embezzled our aid... shocking!

The average salary in St Petersburg is 122,000 rubles a month, or about $1600 dollars/month. That's Russia's best city. Take a 3 hour drive to Finland from there and the average worker makes double that. What's the difference? An inability or refusal to modernize their culture or their economy.

For 600 years Russia has basically been ruled by Tsars. No one has ever been voted out in Russia. The Russian people are still pretty fond of Catherine the Great and Stalin too, so they don't mind it. If Putin was going to rule Russia like a Tsar with an iron fist he needed to control not just the the political system but the economy and media too.

So that's what he did, he put his loyal friends in charge of the industries the state formerly controlled and he runs the industries like a mob boss with him at the top of the pyramid, whacking anyone out of line. Some say Putin is the the richest man in the world and just doesn't report his income/assets. Then he took control of the media, shutting down NTV first and then all the other independent stations.

Jeffrey Sachs doesn't even say the US banks robbed them he says we didn't give them enough help. And that's true because once the Clinton administration realized Russia wasn't going to Westernize/modernize, they weren't going to become like us they were going continue this political system and culture they believed made them the saviors of Europe, and they were going to stay our sworn enemy... Clinton decided to stop helping.

Clinton advisor Strobe Talbott put it eloquently like this in a memo:
U.S. strategy should be “intended to make sure that the rickety, leaky, oversized, cannon-laden Good Ship Russia, with its stinking bilge, its erratic, autocratic captain, and its semi-mutinous crew … has a clearly visible point on the horizon to steer by.” That visible point, or lighthouse, is the US itself.

However, just a couple years later Bush was elected and he said he saw Putin's soul and believed we could partner with Russia.

Then we had rifts over Iraq and Georgia, and Obama was elected and decided to do the "reset."

Then while Obama is President Putin grabs Crimea.

Every President has tried to start over with Russia and by the end of their Presidency Russia disappointed them. Raegan liked Gorbachev and Clinton liked Yeltsin. It's clear we wanted Russia as a friend like France or India, but they like to hold on to their past.

 

[hometeam]

Tbh I already knew where he stood on this before I read that post because I’d seen him raise the same issues that Holocaust deniers & Nazi / German apologists always raise to try & draw equivalence between Nazi Germany’s actions & those of the British & Americans during the war, eg the air raid on Dresden.

I was just encouraging him to fully show his colours really - notice how he says “lots of Jews” rather than “5-6 million” lol.

Fuck knows why the Soviets would need to invent the “myth of the gas chambers” to make the Germans look bad because the Germans had already done a splendid job of it themselves - around 1.5 million Soviet soldiers died as POWs in German captivity during the first 6 months of the German invasion. That’s just the Soviet POWs they killed.

Anyway, it’s pointless engaging with Nazi cunts like him.

BUT the immense scale of the death & destruction the Germans wrought on the Soviet people is an incredibly important factor in why many Russians, including Putin, see the world (& behave) as they do. It’s not something anyone in the West can relate to really - to put it into perspective, those 1.5 million Soviet POWs killed between June-Dec 1941is somewhere near the number of combined British & American military personnel KIA in both World Wars, plus the British civilians killed in German air / rocket attacks during both World Wars.

Putin isn’t just an evil megalomaniac. He’s a product of history & it’s a history that goes back long before the breakup of the Soviet Union.

Frontline interviewed Yale history Professor Timothy Snyder and he said a few interesting things about Putin's take on history:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=um-SEQDQidM


He said:
"Putin doesn’t know a thing about Ukraine, which is interesting. He thinks he knows everything; he doesn’t know anything. And his understanding of Ukraine is based on the notion that it isn’t really a place, and if it seems to be a place, this is because of foreign conspiracies. And in a historical reasoning, those conspiracies have been, in the past, the Austrians, the Germans, the Poles, the Jews. Today it’s the European Union and the Americans.

So Putin’s worldview, which I think he really believes, is that Moscow and Kyiv are somehow organically together and always should be, and it’s only because of the outsiders that this isn’t true.

And so what he’s talking about is not America as it is; he’s talking about a fantasy of America, a fantasy of America that wants to do these insidious things like take Ukraine away from Russia. But that just shows, in my view anyway, a misunderstanding not only of America and Ukraine, but also of his own country."

He also said:
"So Putin doesn’t know why the Soviet Union fell apart. Putin has no idea why the Soviet Union fell apart. His whole story of why the Soviet Union fell apart is utter nonsense. The story that they tell is that the Americans wanted it to happen and therefore it happened, which a, we’re not that powerful, and b—and I was there at the time—our policy in 1991 was to keep the Soviet Union together; it wasn’t to make it fall apart."

So you get a sense of Putin's paranoid, revisionist thinking. A thinking which @Hughinn shares, he's basically saying some US coup put in a West friendly leader and took Ukraine and it's Russian puppet away from Putin... so Putin had to grab Crimea, arm rebels in the Donbas, and ultimately invade to reunite them or make them Russian.

 

[hometeam]

1- Putin is a megalomaniac cartoon supervillain bent on world domination. He's the modern equivalent of Hitler and must be stopped at all costs before he succeeds in making the entire world a facists dictatorship of depravity and misery for his own personal satisfaction.

World domination, no. Putting back the Russian empire, yes. And you know the difference, you just have this fetish with twisting things into something they're not.

But.... he's not going to Nuke the world over Ukraine

He might. But you can't give in to nuclear blackmail and let him grab every territory he wants just because he rattles the nuclear saber.

2- Russia is an evil empire full of orc-people that's going to take over all of Europe then the rest of the world. And this is a real threat we should all be terrified of.

But, Russia is a third rate power totally incapable of defeating the poorest most destitute country in Eastern Europe.

Russia thought they were stronger than they are. We thought so too. And this war has weakened them more. And now people are making a legitimate argument that they aren't our biggest concern right now. However, they are our Eastern European ally's biggest concern.

3- Washington did not orchestrate a coup in Ukraine in 2014 it was simply a totally organic uprising not connected in any way by the billions of dollars the state department had been pumping into Ukraine for the stated goal of regime change.

Because it's totally normal for a completely organic uprising of nationalist elements in a country to demand the presence of foreign propoganda networks and corporate interests in it's "totally organic popular uprising"

When you have a President who backed out of a campaign promise that was the centerpiece of his campaign and strongly supported by the public, it's quite normal to have protests. It wasn't even the protest that caused Yanukovych to flee it was the Russian/Syrian style crackdown and the outrage it caused. And the US didn't call the Russian special forces helicopter to pick him up and permanently take him to Russia. That's what ended his Presidency.

This is just a few examples of the confusing endless stream of bizarre contradictions and illogically defined truisms these people believe in.

And you think it's perfectly fine for Russians to poison President Yuschenko, for Putin to arm rebels in the Donbas and try to create a revolution, to attack Kiev and try to overthrow Zelensky who was democratically elected 5 years after 2014... those were real coup attempts!

You think it's fine for Russia to provoke NATO by invading a European country for the first time in 80 years.

And you claim the US is bent on world domination and Biden is a megalomaniac cartoon supervillain.

 

[Hughinn]

World domination, no. Putting back the Russian empire, yes. And you know the difference, you just have this fetish with twisting things into something they're not.


He might. But you can't give in to nuclear blackmail and let him grab every territory he wants just because he rattles the nuclear saber.


Russia thought they were stronger than they are. We thought so too. And this war has weakened them more. And now people are making a legitimate argument that they aren't our biggest concern right now. However, they are our Eastern European ally's biggest concern.

When you have a President who backed out of a campaign promise that was the centerpiece of his campaign and strongly supported by the public, it's quite normal to have protests. It wasn't even the protest that caused Yanukovych to flee it was the Russian/Syrian style crackdown and the outrage it caused. And the US didn't call the Russian special forces helicopter to pick him up and permanently take him to Russia. That's what ended his Presidency.


And you think it's perfectly fine for Russians to poison President Yuschenko, for Putin to arm rebels in the Donbas and try to create a revolution, to attack Kiev and try to overthrow Zelensky who was democratically elected 5 years after 2014... those were real coup attempts!

You think it's fine for Russia to provoke NATO by invading a European country for the first time in 80 years.

And you claim the US is bent on world domination and Biden is a megalomaniac cartoon supervillain.

Lmfao
No, Joe Biden is alot of things. A lying, grifting, senile and soulless corrupt piece of shit for sure.
But he's not smart enough to be a megalomaniac supervillain trying to rule the world. He's just a cardboard cut-out filling out a position for his corporate globalist billionaire donors

Joe Bidens handler's and donors however, indisputably want to rule the world. And don't your lying ass try to deny it, you've admitted knowing it because you approve of it.
"Unipolar world order is better for everyone" "the US is the best option for the head of a unipolar world order"

- @hometeam idiot

And as far as who provoked who? Well I've certainly shown here that shit went both ways and that it takes more than one party to create a war. Washington has just as much blame here as anybody else.

The only difference between us is that your too stupid, indoctrinated and propogandized to be able to admit it

 

[hometeam]

"Unipolar world order is better for everyone" "the US is the best option for the head of a unipolar world order"

- @hometeam idiot

It's not just me, it's Geopolitics 101: the more poles in the world the more conflict the world has, and less peace and prosperity. And the conflict you have, like Russia/Ukraine tends to be more symmetrical rather than US/Iraq and US/Afghanistan.
"though unipolarity has resulted in a peaceful period since the fall of the Soviet Union, collaboration, connectivity, economic prosperity, and the personality of leadership provide contributions to the Pax Americana. The same conditions, when contrary, have contributed to its disruption and cataclysm (Ikenberry, Mastanduno, & Wohlforth, 2011; Layne, 2012)"

https://pdxscholar.library.pdx.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1000&context=polisci_student

You would almost have to join a cult to think otherwise, which I think is pretty much what you've done. I get that it's easy, and popular, to criticize the lead dog though.

And as far as who provoked who? Well I've certainly shown here that shit went both ways and that it takes more than one party to create a war. Washington has just as much blame here as anybody else.

You've given us an unproven conspiracy theory from a minority opposing viewpoint, and you've deceptively tried to present it as factually known to be true when it's not. In fact almost no one thinks it is true. And even if it was true it doesn't justify an invasion.

Lmfao
No, Joe Biden is alot of things. A lying, grifting, senile and soulless corrupt piece of shit for sure.
But he's not smart enough to be a megalomaniac supervillain

A couple weeks ago the UN voted 141-7 to condemn Russia again, so the world is pretty much on the same page here.

It's you who posted this:

and you've said these things:
"But I know enough about them, and Joe Biden to tell them all to kiss my fuckin ass. As I'd rather cut their necks than shake their hands.
Because Joe Biden doesn't get to decide where I live, what I believe and where my grandchildren will die. I won't bow before the idols of wokeness and empire"
"Joe Biden and the DNC need a Pearl harbor, and they just might stage one"
"This shit is beyond ridiculous at this point. Joe Biden is a fuckin moron. Anybody still supporting him is a brainless, witless fuckin idiot. "
""Joe Biden is far more likely to be thrown out of office for this mess than Putin, and before it's all over, he just might"
"Who here thinks for one second any of the cowards in our current administration would stay in Washington while it was shelled?
Joe Biden would certainly be in a bunker somewhere eating smashed peas and shitting himself in a diaper."
"the lying corrupt bastard Joe Biden would have to admit his own fault in this situation and he won't do that. "

Yet you think it's us (the rest of the world) that has gone too far in our criticism of Russia's dictator who just invaded a country in Europe that was keeping to themselves?

 

[Hughinn]

It's not just me, it's Geopolitics 101: the more poles in the world the more conflict the world has, and less peace and prosperity. And the conflict you have, like Russia/Ukraine tends to be more symmetrical rather than US/Iraq and US/Afghanistan.
"though unipolarity has resulted in a peaceful period since the fall of the Soviet Union, collaboration, connectivity, economic prosperity, and the personality of leadership provide contributions to the Pax Americana. The same conditions, when contrary, have contributed to its disruption and cataclysm (Ikenberry, Mastanduno, & Wohlforth, 2011; Layne, 2012)"

https://pdxscholar.library.pdx.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1000&context=polisci_student

You would almost have to join a cult to think otherwise, which I think is pretty much what you've done. I get that it's easy, and popular, to criticize the lead dog though.


You've given us an unproven conspiracy theory from a minority opposing viewpoint, and you've deceptively tried to present it as factually known to be true when it's not. In fact almost no one thinks it is true. And even if it was true it doesn't justify an invasion.


A couple weeks ago the UN voted 141-7 to condemn Russia again, so the world is pretty much on the same page here.

It's you who posted this:

and you've said these things:
"But I know enough about them, and Joe Biden to tell them all to kiss my fuckin ass. As I'd rather cut their necks than shake their hands.
Because Joe Biden doesn't get to decide where I live, what I believe and where my grandchildren will die. I won't bow before the idols of wokeness and empire"
"Joe Biden and the DNC need a Pearl harbor, and they just might stage one"
"This shit is beyond ridiculous at this point. Joe Biden is a fuckin moron. Anybody still supporting him is a brainless, witless fuckin idiot. "
""Joe Biden is far more likely to be thrown out of office for this mess than Putin, and before it's all over, he just might"
"Who here thinks for one second any of the cowards in our current administration would stay in Washington while it was shelled?
Joe Biden would certainly be in a bunker somewhere eating smashed peas and shitting himself in a diaper."
"the lying corrupt bastard Joe Biden would have to admit his own fault in this situation and he won't do that. "

Yet you think it's us (the rest of the world) that has gone too far in our criticism of Russia's dictator who just invaded a country in Europe that was keeping to themselves?

No I just think you're a fuckin idiot.

One world government utopian heaven on earth is not going to bring world peace. Far from it. A perpetual state of oppression, rebellion and empirical expansion followed by civil war over and over again.

Rome was never at peace just because they conquered the known world. And the liberal globalist utopian world order won't either


You're really that stupid. It's just pathetic.

Here you are howling about Ukrainian independence and sovereignty, while at the same time pushing a unipolar world order.
You're straight up asanine and ridiculous.

You have to be stupid to be capable of the bizarre contradictions and mental gymnastics you're spewing here.

And you just cannot answer the one question at the core of all of this.

Of what danger is anybody in Russia to the freedom and liberty of American citizens?

Of what danger is Joe Biden and his handlers?

 

[hometeam]

No I just think you're a fuckin idiot.

One world government utopian heaven on earth is not going to bring world peace. Far from it. A perpetual state of oppression, rebellion and empirical expansion followed by civil war over and over again.

Rome was never at peace just because they conquered the known world. And the liberal globalist utopian world order won't either

The US hasn't conquered the world or tried to conquer the world, we just influence it. What Rome did and Nazi Germany did and what Russia is doing in Ukraine is much different than what the US does. The last state we added was Hawaii in 1959. Ukraine is not going to be the 51st state.

A unipolar world is more about spheres of influence than one world government. And you know it, you just have this fetish for twisting something into something it's not, to suit your agenda.

 

[hometeam]

Of what danger is anybody in Russia to the freedom and liberty of American citizens?

First of all Putin and his allies (Bashar al-Assad, Ayatolla Khomeini, Kim Jong Il, and Alexander Lukashenko) are promoting an anti-democratic iron fist way of government throughout the world.

That's not enough for you? The liberty, prosperity, and way of life of our allies in Europe is in fact linked to our own. The last time there was such an invasion in Europe 400,000 Americans died because Germany invaded Poland, and Putin's own essay says he believes Ukraine, Belarus and Russia are historically united and the only thing keeping them apart and weak is the West:

On the Historical Unity of Russians and Ukrainians - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Lastly, if we did nothing and Ukraine merges with Russia suddenly it borders 4 NATO countries that have history with Russia:

and we have military bases in quite a few of them:

Of what danger is Joe Biden and his handlers?

Absolutely none whatsoever. It's just your anti-Biden fetish to twist things into something they are not.

 

[Hughinn]

First of all Putin and his allies (Bashar al-Assad, Ayatolla Khomeini, Kim Jong Il, and Alexander Lukashenko) are promoting an anti-democratic iron fist way of government throughout the world.

That's not enough for you? The liberty, prosperity, and way of life of our allies in Europe is in fact linked to our own. The last time there was such an invasion in Europe 400,000 Americans died because Germany invaded Poland, and Putin's own essay says he believes Ukraine, Belarus and Russia are historically united and the only thing keeping them apart and weak is the West:

On the Historical Unity of Russians and Ukrainians - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Lastly, if we did nothing and Ukraine merges with Russia suddenly it borders 4 NATO countries that have history with Russia:

and we have military bases in quite a few of them:

Absolutely none whatsoever. It's just your anti-Biden fetish to twist things into something they are not.

That's stupid.

Nuclear weapons have changed all of that.

Russian people can't be as dumb as you are. They know damn well there's no possible way they could conquer Europe even if they wanted to. Much less north America.

Seriously, your spouting childish nonsense here.

Besides, them trying to assert themselves economically is different than an empire by force. Those days are gone you child.

Lastly, European economics are not at all synonymous with American liberty. You're lying again trying to tie them together. Europe has always been a Hodge podge mixture of socialism and democracy since even before the industrial revolution.

Nothing in European or Russian politics can affect the personal Liberty of American citizens.

But Joe Bidens policies can. He's the bastard that has thrown the borders down and given control of them to Mexican drug cartels. He's the one advocating for the elimination of the second amendment. Not Russia.

Russia is not a threat in any way to American citizens. It couldn't be if it wanted to. European countries have to navigate thier own way. Washington shouldn't get to decide who wins and loses in Europe...or Ukraine.

If Joe Bidens handler's hadn't sold our manufacturing capacity to China, there'd be no issue here now.

Investing in American manufacturing and industry is the key. It always was. People like Joe Biden sold it off to enrich themselves long ago. In favor of a military solution and forcing warfare and regime changes when situations were unfavorable.

But that's not a sustainable model.

 

[Hughinn]

The US hasn't conquered the world or tried to conquer the world, we just influence it. What Rome did and Nazi Germany did and what Russia is doing in Ukraine is much different than what the US does. The last state we added was Hawaii in 1959. Ukraine is not going to be the 51st state.

A unipolar world is more about spheres of influence than one world government. And you know it, you just have this fetish for twisting something into something it's not, to suit your agenda.

Here's where you're so stupid.

What Rome did and every other empire is no different at all to what Washington is doing right now. No different at all.

Ukraine is already a state of the empire, as American tax dollars are paying lucrative pensions for Ukrainian ogliarchs while millions of working class Americans are facing poverty and destitute lifestyle's so that Washington can fund it's ukranian expansion project.

Because Washington is not interested in investing in American enterprises or funding retirement plans for American workers, But in globalist billionaire corporate expansionism.

They've straight up fucked over the working class. And instead of making good on thier promises, they'll toss American workers to the dogs , then they're going to import a new working class from central/South America and expand into Ukraine where the process will repeat itself.

Except they're running out of soldiers.

Washington cannot get another half million rural American white boys to send off to slaughter.
And the central and south American workers they're importing have no allegiance at all to the hipster liberals who'll benifit from their children dying in far off foreign countries.

This shit house of cards is crashing down fast. NATO is finished after this. Joe Biden and the DNC cannot rely on winning honest elections even now. And soon, it will be even worse.

Cowardly cunts like you should be looking at Canada

 

[hometeam]

That's stupid.

Nuclear weapons have changed all of that.

Russian people can't be as dumb as you are. They know damn well there's no possible way they could conquer Europe even if they wanted to. Much less north America.

As I said before, Russia doesn't need to try to conquer Europe to start WWIII, or at least a really bad war. Once they border 4 NATO countries (who would be promoting an insurgency and guerilla warfare in Ukraine, making Russia more hostile) all it takes is a border skirmish or a wayward missile to start WWIII. Poland wants Lviv back, Poland could attack Russia. Russia wants Belarus back and once that happens they border 2 more NATO countries hostile to them.

What about this doesn't compute with you? Why do you have to keep asking what danger is anybody in Russia to the freedom and liberty of American citizens? I answered it. You may not like the answer, but it's a rational one.

Just because your libertarian podcaster says over and over again what happens in Europe isn't a national security threat to America doesn't mean it's true. He just doesn't have anyone with him that understands how American security and European security are linked to challenge him on that. That's why you don't go to extremist news sources.

 

[Fautquejyaille]

I'd also add that Joe Biden and Barak Obama admit to ordering 542 drone strikes while in office, resulting in the deaths of 3,797 people, including 542 civilians.

and that's just what they admit to from press reports and filings. The real number is probably close to double


but these idiots celebrate Obama and literally gave him a Nobel peace prize.

they think Joe Biden is an honest old man, but still couldn't give you any reason why a corrupt Eastern European ogliarchy would pay the crackhead son of Joe Biden millions of dollars for a cushy no show job except to bribe Joe Biden.

but that doesn't matter.

They hate Donald Trump because CNN MSNBC and DNC propoganda networks all told them he was a "Russian asset" and they've been taught to hate Russia, hate working class white Americans and to hate the bad orange man that represented them.

They don't fully understand why, but why is not as important as professing these dogmas to prove their fealty to the group. It's not even important that these dogmas don't make sense.

Take @Zebedee for example. He thinks Putin is a megalomaniac cartoon supervillain bent on world domination.

It doesn't matter how ridiculous that is. It's the only thing that makes sense when he discounts offhand the long and tumultuous history that has led us to this point.
He cannot accept the fact his own government has lied, betrayed and connived thier way into yet another war.

So he discounts the reality that irresponsible policy driven by greed and lust for power among his own god kings in Washington has largely predetermined this end result of war and suffering.
He discounts that reality in favor of the fantasy that reinforces the indoctrination and propoganda he's been subjected to and reduces the situation down to "Putin is a megalomaniac cartoon supervillain bent on world domination" and it's only "US and the good guys standing against the bad guys to save the world"


Because that narrative is completely ingrained in him deep in his psyche. Has been planted there from early in his childhood years and reinforced at every turn.

Combine that with a weak or absent father figure and you have no independent reasoning or rugged male individualistic thinking present to counteract the fairytales.
Instead it's a forceful and aggressive need to comply with the group and enforce/reinforce that dogma to legitimize it within himself.

It's really some scary shit. There's millions like him.

Even worse though, is that idiot @hometeam

It's almost a Sci Fi zombie apocalypse like scenario. Just not like Hollywood portrayed it.

The US hasn't conquered the world or tried to conquer the world, we just influence it. What Rome did and Nazi Germany did and what Russia is doing in Ukraine is much different than what the US does. The last state we added was Hawaii in 1959. Ukraine is not going to be the 51st state.

A unipolar world is more about spheres of influence than one world government. And you know it, you just have this fetish for twisting something into something it's not, to suit your agenda.

Stupid guy open your eyes

 

[hometeam]

Because Washington is not interested in investing in American enterprises or funding retirement plans for American workers, But in globalist billionaire corporate expansionism.

Ukraine has a GDP of $100 billion to $200 billion, depending on if it's a good year or bad year. Compared to the US $21 trillion, that's not even 1% of the US economy on a good year. We've sent them $113 billion is aid, so even if we made them the 51st state and taxed them we'd never get our money back in 100 years..

The country isn't getting rich by helping Ukraine. Their top 3 exports are Seed Oils ($5.32B), Corn ($4.89B), and Wheat ($4.61B). It's about containing Russian expansion not American investments and profits.

Except they're running out of soldiers.

Washington cannot get another half million rural American white boys to send off to slaughter.
And the central and south American workers they're importing have no allegiance at all to the hipster liberals who'll benifit from their children dying in far off foreign countries.

According to neutral General Bakshi of India they've got about 700,000 soldiers and 450,000 is the fighting element. And because of NATO aid this is a symmetrical war not an asymmetrical one, with the advantage going to the defender:

View: https://youtu.be/JqHuvl9J-v4?t=602
In September Ukrainian forces outnumbered Russian forces by 2-3x and was pushing back the lines and gaining ground, which is why Russia mobilized. Now you're trying to say Russia didn't have to.

And I've asked you: okay, you say they're running out of soldiers give me a date when you say there will be the US 101st Airborne fighting on the front lines in Ukraine. Because otherwise you'll be saying the same thing next year. You've refused to do so, saying something like Biden banned that date from being aired in the news.

We killed 1.1 million enemy soldiers in Vietnam, and North Vietnam only had a population of 17 million (1/3rd of Ukraine's), they still beat us. They never ran out.

 

[Zebedee]

Take @Zebedee for example. He thinks Putin is a megalomaniac cartoon supervillain bent on world domination.

It doesn't matter how ridiculous that is. It's the only thing that makes sense when he discounts offhand the long and tumultuous history that has led us to this point.
He cannot accept the fact his own government has lied, betrayed and connived thier way into yet another war.

So he discounts the reality that irresponsible policy driven by greed and lust for power among his own god kings in Washington has largely predetermined this end result of war and suffering.
He discounts that reality in favor of the fantasy that reinforces the indoctrination and propoganda he's been subjected to and reduces the situation down to "Putin is a megalomaniac cartoon supervillain bent on world domination" and it's only "US and the good guys standing against the bad guys to save the world"


Because that narrative is completely ingrained in him deep in his psyche. Has been planted there from early in his childhood years and reinforced at every turn.

Combine that with a weak or absent father figure and you have no independent reasoning or rugged male individualistic thinking present to counteract the fairytales.
Instead it's a forceful and aggressive need to comply with the group and enforce/reinforce that dogma to legitimize it within himself.

It's really some scary shit. There's millions like him.

Oh dear …. Hypocrisy detected. You threw a right hissy fit on UGBB when Lifter used comments about your Mrs as a way to insult you & score points. I guess your insulting my Dad is different somehow though, because you think I’m a “leftist” & Biden supporter etc.

So …. No, my father was neither weak-willed nor absent. It’s due to his guidance & example why I’ve never raped nor slapped my Mrs about, which is something not every man (or should I say “male”) in this discussion can say, can they @Hughinn ?

Don’t be a whiny little cry baby about my returning the favour here - you reap what you sow, Dixie boy.


View: https://youtu.be/IUbakT7fQZ0

 

[hometeam]

But Joe Bidens policies can. He's the bastard that has thrown the borders down and given control of them to Mexican drug cartels. He's the one advocating for the elimination of the second amendment. Not Russia.

Border walls and gun control, that's what is threatening our life and liberty?

There is no 2nd amendment in most of Europe, India, Australia... in fact it's pretty much illegal to own a gun in these places unless you can show a good cause for it, like hunting or proof of threat of life. Definitely no assault rifles and handguns only if you can convince the authorities you need it. These are pretty free countries; they just think guns cause more harm than good.

Last year border patrol caught and deported over 2.4 million people at the border. That's about the population of Mississippi. Can they do better? Sure, but I think they're doing a pretty good job. It's not easy to get over that border. Almost a thousand people died trying to get across it last year.

This is why you've sided with Russia and Putin? Why Biden is a bigger threat to our security than the outbreak of war in Europe? Where we have 13 major military bases and 29 NATO allies and lost 400,000 American lives the last time such a European invasion happened? Why you wake up every morning trying to figure out how to spin every topic in the news into a Biden outrage or Biden failure? Something is wrong with you.

 

[Hughinn]

Border walls and gun control, that's what is threatening our life and liberty?

There is no 2nd amendment in most of Europe, India, Australia... in fact it's pretty much illegal to own a gun in these places unless you can show a good cause for it, like hunting or proof of threat of life. Definitely no assault rifles and handguns only if you can convince the authorities you need it. These are pretty free countries; they just think guns cause more harm than good.

Last year border patrol caught and deported over 2.4 million people at the border. That's about the population of Mississippi. Can they do better? Sure, but I think they're doing a pretty good job. It's not easy to get over that border. Almost a thousand people died trying to get across it last year.

This is why you've sided with Russia and Putin? Why Biden is a bigger threat to our security than the outbreak of war in Europe? Where we have 13 major military bases and 29 NATO allies and lost 400,000 American lives the last time such a European invasion happened? Why you wake up every morning trying to figure out how to spin every topic in the news into a Biden outrage or Biden failure? Something is wrong with you.

Lmfao



I'm not "on the side of Russia". I'm on the side that wants my government to make a peace here instead of fueling a war with American taxpayers money.

And you never answered the questions.

Copy and pasting a bunch of state propoganda bullshit doesn't mean that the liberty of American citizens are dependent on European economics and politics.

It's not. Only a dumbass could believe that nonsense

Of what threat to the liberty and freedom of American citizens is anybody in Russia?

Of what threat to the liberty and freedom of American citizens is Joe Biden?

Putin isn't questioning Americans constitutional rights, Joe Biden is.