I could be wrong, but I believe Dave polumbo said lisinopril is good for guys that cycle because it can prevent heart remodeling. Telmisartan sounds like it has positive benefits physique wise. I never heard if bp meds being cycled.
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
Rich Piana in coma possible overdose?
- Thread starter Wunderpus
- Start date
Dave P suggestion is analogous to
the use of liver supplements as a means of reducing AAS related hepatic toxicity.
And that's bc almost all
anti-hypertensives including ARBs, ACE-I, Ca blocker etc, improve or reduce LVH in hypertensive patients.
So the most reliable means of
diminishing the development of LVH is careful BP monitoring, something FEW cyclist do.
Also it's important to remember bc the development of LVH is a NATURAL physiologic response to exercise, the suggestion it must be "prevented" per se is overlooking this fac.
In fact what defines the "athletes heart" is near completed resolution (of LVH) upon discontinuation of the underlying cause exercise. -----
The distinction then becomes, do AAS play a significant role in the development of LVH, as myocardial muscle AR agonists,
and how much of those "gains" are maintained!
The answer is not yet known or remains poorly defined but the evidence strongly suggests the use of AAS, esp in high dosages for extended periods, are more likely than not to be a separate cardiac risk factor.
All that being said, the risk (whatever it is) AAS pose to "older" BB pales in comparison to the use of recreational CNS stimulant drugs!
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Some folk, and RP was definitely one of them, are unable to grasp the concept of MODERATION, "CYCLING" or how about "cycling in moderation"!
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TRT
Member
I just spent 30 mins looking up some of the shit you said in that last post. The vocabulary obviously belongs to that of some who has a better understanding of the human body the I.
I do understand what moderation means believe it or not. That's one thing I got out of all that. Lol
My old man did have high BP for 20+ years. I was told that caused his enlarged heart.
I'm on my IPhone so I can't do it now but for many a PICTURE speaks a 1000 words so a simple suggestion might help.
Go to Google images and pull up
TWO pics and compare the following "four chamber LVH" autopsy VS a "four chamber normal heart" autopsy PICS
Bottom line bc LVH diminishes the ventricles CHAMBER size less blood is forced out with each beat. The body tries to compensate by increasing HR,
but that too has its limitations.
Jim
.
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The net effect is the ol ticker must work harder to meet metabolic demands and much like a V6 F-150 CAN pull a "heavy load" for extended periods BUT challenged to pull the same "heavy load" after a couple pistons are knocked out and eventually it will FAIL
TRT
Member
I see the difference. It all makes sense on how it works and the body compensating.
This is something that supposedly runs in the family but I think it's going to end here.
This is something that supposedly runs in the family but I think it's going to end here.
Jeremiahflex
Member
If you find it can you link it here plz, thanks.
Brock Rosewell
New Member
Wasn't a fan of the guy but it's always a shame when this happens. It sucks because, well, the guy died and because of the additional negative publicity on AAS in general. Guy was a poster child for over the top and insane. RIP man.
TRT
Member
Blood pressure 130 over 90
@Jeremiahflex
If you type in the search bar "blood pressure" theres a bunch that come up. Some are short and others got some good info. I just counted 4 natural things to take that will help with BP. CoQ10 someone mention which is suppose to be good for the heart too.
Donating blood is another huge factor. Wish I could draw blood myself so I don't have to get a 16g needle stuck in my arm.
@Jeremiahflex
If you type in the search bar "blood pressure" theres a bunch that come up. Some are short and others got some good info. I just counted 4 natural things to take that will help with BP. CoQ10 someone mention which is suppose to be good for the heart too.
Donating blood is another huge factor. Wish I could draw blood myself so I don't have to get a 16g needle stuck in my arm.
Thanks doc
Yes! I lost my uncle last year who had heart failure. He died on the golf course after puking multiple times but saying he would be ok and just lay down and rest at home. He never made it home. Dying in the front seat of his car.
The New Indian Express, an Indian English-language newspaper based in Chennai, reported deaths of Rich Piana and Dallas McCarver and stated that "overdose of steroids" was the cause of Piana's death while citing top Indian cardiologist to support its case:
Rich Piana and Mc Carver, the two bodybuilders who died, are suspected to have abused PEDs in their professional careers. Piana reportedly died due to the overdose of steroids and the other due to food choking.
[...]
“When such drugs are taken, naturally the muscle mass increases the load on the heart which can lead to a premature cardiac arrest. The complications will only come to light after its usage is stopped,” said A Sharath Reddy, a senior consultant interventional cardiologist.
[...]
“When such drugs are taken, naturally the muscle mass increases the load on the heart which can lead to a premature cardiac arrest. The complications will only come to light after its usage is stopped,” said A Sharath Reddy, a senior consultant interventional cardiologist.
Of course, the article also cited a sports nutritionist who warned about the unwanted side effect of bloating that resulting from a recommended steroid detox program involving coconut water!
Source: Steroid abuse can lead to cardiac arrest, say experts
Here's a comparison to that which I was referring to above, and is the type of "gains" no one wants!
FYI the "string like" lattice network seen in the larger "normal" view pic are anchorings for the valves called Chordae T.
Finally only the PIC below that which is labeled normal is indeed NORMAL.
And cardio is supposed to stop this from happening...?
I'd like to believe most folk would realize media outlets like "The New Indian Express" lack evidence based credibility when citing hyperbole such as "Oral steroids are extremely toxic to the liver" or my favorite the use of "coconut milk as part of the detoxification process". (Whenever I note a physician is making such dogmatic, carte blanche and ill define statements I begin to question whether bias is to blame or perhaps their background, training and experience are at fault)
And from a professional perspective I can also posit, similar "educational" gaps usually extend to involve a majority of Foreign Medical Graduates including "medical specialists", cardiology in particular.
And for this reason almost all FMGs are required to complete a formal residency in addition to subspecialty training as a requisite for US board eligibility.
And to that end I'm not surprised to see the source of PED information often defines it's reliability.
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In response to the deaths of Rich Piana and Dallas McCarver, Dr. Irving Sobel, an internist with the Access Medical Group of Marina del Rey, told HollywoodLife.com that steroid abuse "can lead to overdose":
“Abusing anabolic steroids can lead to overdose. Symptoms of a steroid overdose include stroke, coma, heart attack and convulsions. Longterm abuse affects so many areas of the body including the adrenal glands, the heart, mental health and it can often lead to liver cancer.”
Source: http://hollywoodlife.com/2017/08/25/dallas-mccarver-rich-piana-steroid-use-abuse-deaths/
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