Regarding the use of aromatase inhibitors.

[mikeh1998]

Men think it's a flex to not need AI, if you aromatize you are less of a man so everyone is running 500+ test with no AI and stacking other shit on top of that because they have an "anti-estrogen effect".

Often the compounds stacked on top are DHT derivatives (mast, primo, proviron) because DHT is for manly men. Even if those compounds are total dogshit for muscle growth somehow 50 mg Aromasin is neurotoxic and will kill you but adding 500 mg of a DHT derivative is completely safe and doesn't need to be questioned.

It's literally just ooga booga tier logic once you realize this it all makes sense. Toxic masculinity - Wikipedia

The same dumbasses then post about how non-aromatizing steroids like tren, superdrol, anadrol are somehow causing them gyno.

Yeah bro it's definitely the 300 mg of tren causing you gyno, definitely not the 600 mg test base you run without AI, better hop on cabergoline + pramipexole and a full bottle of P5P every week to fight "prolactin gyno". Do literally anything but use an AI.

 

[Tbaz192]

You find what works best for you, and what you need.
Every one is different. Vastly different.

 

[BALLISTIC]

So, I would like to understand why you are so reluctant to use AI to lower (not eliminate) estrogen IF necessary.
I have read people writing that they are harmful to lipids, others citing studies that show neurotoxicity.
I went to read those same studies and from what I understood it is mainly the usual way of misinterpreting the data by those who are more of a bodybuilder than a doctor....
I will start by saying that I have used AI (arimidex) in all the cycles I have done (21 in 11 years) and sometimes in minimal dosage even in trt with dosages that went from 0.5 mg every other day to, rarely 1 mg every day and honestly for what my experience is worth (I do analysis every 2 months, and during each cycle in the middle and at the end of the cycle, always) I have never managed to go below 18 pg/ml (I remember that the reference range is 11-42 pg/ml).
I will give my opinion on the following:
Regarding lipids: there is no scientific evidence that, as I often read here and on other forums, aromatase inhibitors damage the lipid profile directly or as a side effect of the drug, but rather they do so by lowering estrogens to ZERO (you say crash) which is exactly what doctors are trying to achieve when they prescribe arimidex to women with breast cancer and the studies on anastrozole and other AIs are, rightly conducted on women who take it to treat breast cancer: I remind you that it is a drug approved ONLY FOR THIS.... It is known that estrogens FAVOR HDL levels and that low estrogens reduce HDL, so it all depends on using AIs at the RIGHT dosage and WHEN they are needed to lower HIGH estrogens to an acceptable level (in range) not to ZERO them as for those who need them to treat an estrogen-dependent tumor.
Regarding neurotoxicity, the exact same reasoning applies: no study shows that taking aromatase inhibitors is neurotoxic, while some studies, always conducted on women with breast cancer, whose estrogens are RIDDEN for LIFE have highlighted neurotoxic effects: it is also known that estrogens have a strong neuroprotective component: it is also obvious that a person who has them removed for life will suffer the consequences.
I remind you that there is not a single study on the use of aromatase inhibitors on men who abuse anabolics (there are a couple conducted on young men who suffer from gynecomastia) and that the goal of using these substances is to lower estrogens to an acceptable level (in range, I repeat) in the limited time frame in which substances that aromatize and bring these hormones to excessive levels are abused.
Honestly, I laugh when I hear about "estrogen crashes" "by feeling", that is, not supported by lab tests, and people who stuff themselves with other androgens (primo or masteron, without considering the toxicity of adding other products) to avoid using drugs that are very effective if used for the desired purpose.

Some good discussion here if you'd like to read from various standpoints. It was mentioned this topic gets heated. More importantly anyone telling you something absolute should be ignored. We all have different physiology. That's the only fact. Nothing in the world of AAS should be spoken from "absolutes". We should remain open minded to all avenues of approach/reasoning. What person describes in comparison to another is reasonable and individual perspective.

The real truth is human physiology and in this particular situation where we are going super→physiological estrogen should be balanced in reference to androgen load. That will be different person to person and agent negative effects. Estrogen is extremely protective and the studies are showing such. That's how the body truly operates. In many cases folks having negative side effects have not given themselves time to reach homeostasis. This is difficult when looking at cycles which even at 22 weeks would be short in the aspect of what the body requires. Hopefully this gives some insight.

It's a long read, but hopefully you get something helpful you can take away.

Best wishes always.

Thread 'Aromatase Inhibitors Fix the Number but Break the System, open discussion.' Aromatase Inhibitors Fix the Number but Break the System, open discussion.

I posted this the other day on pro muscle so I will copy it here

I’m not really afraid of having high estradiol. When we look at studies of high estrogen having negative cardiovascular issues in men, it’s always in the men who are not injecting testosterone. In those instances, high estradiol appears to be a consequence of other root causes (like obesity), not the primary cause.

When my estradiol is high, and it usually is above the lab range, I don’t get any blood pressure increases, lipid abnormalities, or insulin resistance. When it’s low, it does cause lipid abnormalities and increased inflammation.

I take my shots daily, which keeps E2 levels stable. I also take HCG daily.

Another thing I want to point out is another form of estrogen (17 alpha estradiol) increased lifespan in male mice very significantly (but not female mice). Just some food for thought.

The bottom line is there simply isn’t evidence about whether high estradiol from taking high amounts of testosterone is harmful or not since it hasn’t been studied. My opinion is nothing more than an educated guess based on the evidence I’ve researched.

I wouldn’t take one again. I had old man joint pains last times I did and my E2 was within the normal range. If I got gyno, I’d simply lower my dose or use primo.

I don't know why you got down voted for expressing this. You're points have validity. We as humans consistently regurgitate bro lore. I consistently will argue if your DR is prescribing you AI for true TRT dosing, you need a new DR who is current with research and dosing protocols as you mentioned.

While not always convenient, daily dosing is significantly better for homeostasis. Our bodies.... Doesn't matter what it is will always seek this. The primary reason we build drug tolerance with repetitive use. The body wants true flatline standards if possible.