How did the myth start that Primobolan was an AI?

[eryximachus]

Ok. I'm just going to concede this - because free test is so high, this means primo is in my case working as an AI because estradiol is low.

Thanks for everyone's participation. Any other helpful comments would be appreciated.

 

[malomkarom]

Dude, you are the worst about just saying random shit and pretending it is somehow some sort of argument in your favor.

Am I arguing with you about why your SHBG is low? Am I saying DHT doesn't lower SHBG? I know why your SHBG is low, and DHTs do lower SHBG.

That's what this entire thread is about, he literally just strolls around every statement and says some random wild fact and calls it a day.

It kinda feels like we're arguing to like a pre-alpha state AI that's developed for tour routes for tourists or something else completely irrelevant to the conversation. Just random facts and mostly not even denial, just skipping everything that could be taken as a point againts him.

 

[eryximachus]

Dude, you are the worst about just saying random shit and pretending it is somehow some sort of argument in your favor.

Am I arguing with you about why your SHBG is low? Am I saying DHT doesn't lower SHBG? I know why your SHBG is low, and DHTs do lower SHBG.

This isn't about "winning". It's not about "in my favor".

Why would I post my entire blood work, if that was the goal?

 

[readalot]

Your E2 should not be that low!

TBF, his SHBG is very low. Hence E2 is skewed low. Would need to use Maser model I linked above in absence of fE2 measurement via equilibrium dialysis.

And as you say, no control expt.

 

[readalot]

Please see the paper I shared above. Plot the data that you have.

 

[Bandern]

Ok. I'm just going to concede this - because free test is so high, this means primo is in my case working as an AI because estradiol is low.

Thanks for everyone's participation. Any other helpful comments would be appreciated.

Delete this, don’t back down king

 

[malomkarom]

TBF, his SHBG is very low. Hence E2 is skewed low. Would need to use Maser model I linked above in absence of fE2 measurement via equilibrium dialysis.

And as you say, no control expt.

I've mostly seen increased E2 in myself and in some others' bloodwork when SHBG is lower. That being said I've never had a reason to look into bloods with an SHBG of 3, so I'm not even gonna try to argue.

Would be reasonable to have lower sex hormones overal when SHBG is damn near absent. His free T is 265 though, the ratio still makes no sense to me.

 

[hexagonal]

Too much going on here. No, lowering SHBG doesnt free up more T. Not how it works.

Also remember lowering SHBG will also lower E2. Not just TT that is affected.

I will come back later. Unfocused discussion.

Increased clearance rate from low SHBG will result in lower totals but 23 is still minuscule for the amount of free tests this dude has.

I don't understand how lower SHBG doesn't result in higher Free T. Claiming that it does not seems to go against all of the text that I am aware of, e.g.

https://genetic.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/KS-Testosterone-Hypogonadism-Guidelines-2018.pdf

https://www.endotext.org/wp-content/uploads/pdfs/laboratory-assessment-of-testicular-function-2.pdf

If you go to a Vermeulen calculator and adjust just the SHBG, lowering it increases your Free T, increasing it decreases your Free T.

 

[malomkarom]

Increased clearance rate from low SHBG will result in lower totals but 23 is still minuscule for the amount of free tests this dude has.

I don't understand how lower SHBG doesn't result in higher Free T. Claiming that it does not seems to go against all of the text that I am aware of, e.g.

https://genetic.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/KS-Testosterone-Hypogonadism-Guidelines-2018.pdf

https://www.endotext.org/wp-content/uploads/pdfs/laboratory-assessment-of-testicular-function-2.pdf

If you go to a Vermeulen calculator and adjust just the SHBG, lowering it increases your Free T, increasing it decreases your Free T.

It seems logical that when shbg is too low, you just have low everything as you aren't keeping it in circulation. You're pissing it out.

 

[readalot]

Increased clearance rate from low SHBG will result in lower totals but 23 is still minuscule for the amount of free tests this dude has.

I don't understand how lower SHBG doesn't result in higher Free T. Claiming that it does not seems to go against all of the text that I am aware of, e.g.

https://genetic.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/KS-Testosterone-Hypogonadism-Guidelines-2018.pdf

https://www.endotext.org/wp-content/uploads/pdfs/laboratory-assessment-of-testicular-function-2.pdf

If you go to a Vermeulen calculator and adjust just the SHBG, lowering it increases your Free T, increasing it decreases your Free T.

Please see this thread and all reference links where I document this meticulously. Free Test is being eliminated. Not Total Test. SHBG is not directly involved with elimination (aka clearance) of free Testosterone.

R

Post in thread 'Oxandrolone lowered total testosterone 36% while on TRT?'

Aug 9, 2025

Okay.. so what happens with the test that was bound in that SHBG? Doesn't lowering it free up the testosterone?

Here is a picture. Well understood phenomenon if you dig...

Permanent crash of estrogen? - Page 8 - Excel Male Health Forum

I’m still having low e2 symptoms 5 weeks off ai I’m really nervous It’s gonna be perment? I lost my emotions and dopamine appetite energy

www.excelmale.com

Read the post and also the papers. Very helpful.

• readalot

• 

Unfortunately the "lowering SHBG frees up T" myth perpetuates itself everywhere.

 

[eryximachus]

I've mostly seen increased E2 in myself and in some others' bloodwork when SHBG is lower. That being said I've never had a reason to look into bloods with an SHBG of 3, so I'm not even gonna try to argue.

Would be reasonable to have lower sex hormones overal when SHBG is damn near absent. His free T is 265 though, the ratio still makes no sense to me.

This is not an argument. How many times do I have to say this?

If you have a legitimate concern, just state it clearly, calmly, and with a viable solution.

 

[malomkarom]

This is not an argument. How many times do I have to say this?

If you have a legitimate concern, just state it clearly, calmly, and with a viable solution.

I wasn't talking to you. Sorry, again, the world doesn't revolve around you.

 

[hexagonal]

Please see this thread and all reference links where I document this meticulously. Free Test is being eliminated. Not Total Test. SHBG is not directly involved with elimination (aka clearance) of free Testosterone.

R

Post in thread 'Oxandrolone lowered total testosterone 36% while on TRT?'

Aug 9, 2025

Okay.. so what happens with the test that was bound in that SHBG? Doesn't lowering it free up the testosterone?

Here is a picture. Well understood phenomenon if you dig...

Permanent crash of estrogen? - Page 8 - Excel Male Health Forum

I’m still having low e2 symptoms 5 weeks off ai I’m really nervous It’s gonna be perment? I lost my emotions and dopamine appetite energy

www.excelmale.com

Read the post and also the papers. Very helpful.

• readalot

• 

I never said free test is being eliminated due to SHBG so I am not sure how to respond to this.

All of the research / medical recommendations I linked are fairly explicit that lower SHBG will show lower total test and higher free test and that clearance rates are increased for totals, and even the vermulean calculation is quite explicit in lower SHBG = higher free. This is why they also all recommend checking for free test in situations where SHBG is abnormal.

 

[readalot]

Serum free Test is proportional to dose. Clearance rate is determined at the liver. Yes there can be some correlation with SHBG. Mechanistically though, not involved.

Total T is in dynamic equilibrium with free T via SHBG.

Unfortunately there is a widely known paper out there that confused many by measuring an apparent metabolic clearance rate of testosterone based on Total Test. They should have used Free Test.

 

[malomkarom]

Please see this thread and all reference links where I document this meticulously. Free Test is being eliminated. Not Total Test. SHBG is not directly involved with elimination (aka clearance) of free Testosterone.

R

Post in thread 'Oxandrolone lowered total testosterone 36% while on TRT?'

Aug 9, 2025

Okay.. so what happens with the test that was bound in that SHBG? Doesn't lowering it free up the testosterone?

Here is a picture. Well understood phenomenon if you dig...

Permanent crash of estrogen? - Page 8 - Excel Male Health Forum

I’m still having low e2 symptoms 5 weeks off ai I’m really nervous It’s gonna be perment? I lost my emotions and dopamine appetite energy

www.excelmale.com

Read the post and also the papers. Very helpful.

• readalot

• 

Unfortunately the "lowering SHBG frees up T" myth perpetuates itself everywhere.

While FT was infact unchanged and we gotta give you that, that's a perfect result showing higher E2 at lower SHBG which would.. well not prove cause it's n=1, but show a case for one of my arguments atleast.

 

[readalot]

Increased clearance rate from low SHBG will result in lower totals

You said this.

Clearance should be discussed in terms of free Test.

 

[readalot]

I never said free test is being eliminated due to SHBG so I am not sure how to respond to this.

All of the research / medical recommendations I linked are fairly explicit that lower SHBG will show lower total test and higher free test and that clearance rates are increased for totals, and even the vermulean calculation is quite explicit in lower SHBG = higher free. This is why they also all recommend checking for free test in situations where SHBG is abnormal.

In order to demonstrate what you are saying with Vermeulen are you keeping TT constant and varying SHBG?

 

[readalot]

Think about ratio of FT to TT vs FT absolute.

Lowering SHBG increases percentage of FT (FT/TT), not absolute FT.

 

[readalot]

See thread I linked. All math is shared.

 

[readalot]

Math to go with graphs linked above.

R

Post in thread 'Help Understanding Bloodwork'

Jan 20, 2024

What does the body do with the extra FT if TT is down, and FT stays the same, but endogenous T source (TRT dosage) remains constant? I'm assuming the TRT is cleaved from the ester into free T. The body excretes it? Essentially wondering why wouldn't free T go up if SHBG is lowered and endogenous T remains the same.

Imagine experiment where SHBG magically drops in half or just drops over the course of some time period (oxandrolone for example).

All other constraints above stay in place. Let's just make it as simple as possible by assuming TRT (aka free Test) is being introduced...

• readalot

•