MESO-Rx Sponsor Pharmacom Labs officials and our Basicstero.com store

[RThoads]

If anyone decides to send samples for testing, please send a brand new unopened product to help eliminate some other variables and some of the potential for introducing errors.

We generally do advise clients to send just 1 ml of oil in a clean container- less risky, we don't really need more and keeps the samples blind for us, which gives the community way to check on us.

The above does look like a used peptide vial with the crimp still on - I would slightly worry aobut whether it still qualifies as a clean container.

 

[Isrrike]

Do you know if there is any testing for the same batch that he sent for testing? That way it can put everyone’s arguments to bed

 

[Raww]

Anyone is free to get testing.
For example, BigJP just got testing and no one paid him to do it.

Oh no you didn't.....

BigJP got testing. On his dime. Posted the results here.......

AND YOUR ORGANIZATION HAS REPEATEDLY CALLED HIM A SCAMMER......

 

[RThoads]

Oh no you didn't.....

BigJP got testing. On his dime. Posted the results here.......

AND YOUR ORGANIZATION HAS REPEATEDLY CALLED HIM A SCAMMER......

I am not sure how your post is relevant.
Please, don't take it as an attack or insult -- I genuinely don't understand.

Are you saying that how you guys feel the source reacted to BigJP's results intimidates you or prevent you from pursuing testing of your own?

How a source reacts or doesn't react has no power over preventing you from doing what you choose to do.
You can order or not order from whomever you choose -- no one forces you to buy from, or not buy from, anyone.
And, you are free to do whatever you want with what you buy -- no one can stop you from getting testing.

 

[BALLISTIC]

You are making disrespectful statements about me without ever talking to me or knowing me. That tells me a lot about you.

@BigJP and I are on good terms and speak to each other respectfully.
I have gone above and beyond for many people here over the years.
But you, someone that does not even know me, talks shit about me.

I won't even lower myself to your level or be rude here, because you can already guess how I feel about the way you act toward me.

By the way, your statements are full of contradictions.

For example, you act confused about a statement that mentions the risks of sources "going under."
But shortly later you cite Jano's interview that "The steroid market has collapsed" and give examples of potential problems that result from sources are going under.

Also, you are wrong about a used vial and how much it can influence the results.
Firstly, before you start your drama and virtue signalling, let me say that I have no idea what vial BigJP used or didn't use nor do I know if it was clean or not, so this is not an accusation towards him doing anything on purpose.
If the vial was not clean and had other liquid left in it, there is a potential to dilute the results. We are only talking about a 1 mL sample. What is there was something left in the vile, especially it the volume was a heterogeneous mixture, it could skew the results.

I wonder about the logic that these results are somehow infallible, but all the others results don't matter.
It shows you are not logical.
If there are many other data points that are all in agreement, then the outlier is usually the one that is erroneous.
You completely disregard all the other results.
You completely disregard all the other possibilities.
You completely disregard decades of good business.
But you worship these results as if they are the eternal truth handed down from heaven.

You're not interested in figuring out the truth -- you're only here to push an agenda and it shows.
You downplay or completely disregard anything that challenges your narrative.

Where is your suggestion to BigJP to or Basicstero to send one of the unopened vials to get more info?
Where is your curiosity about how one group of result are in disagreement with years of other results including results of products from the same time period (the guy on Reddit posted MIX-M from the same exact month BigJP's were purchased)?
Where is your concern about the transfer vial?
Where are your question about how the product was stored (a hot care in August, direct sun light, anything that can speed degradation)?
Where is the genuine desire to figure out what is going on?

Nope, all you have is prejudice and reject anything other than your assumption the source is bad.

It is clear you are not interested in getting to the truth or you would act differently and try to figure out why the results do not agree with the greater body of work -- I don't recall you even participating in this thread much before this -- it looks like you just see an opportunity to make drama and bash a source.

@RThoads let me be very clear, because this has obviously crossed wires that were never intended to cross.

My comments about “going under,” defensiveness, and market pressure were not aimed at you personally. They were directed at the founder’s response as quoted and the narrative being pushed there. You did previously mention supply side stress and possible production issues, and I referenced that only in the context of broader market conditions, not as an accusation toward you.

If my wording came across as a personal slight toward you, that was not my intent, and I’ll own that communication matters. I don’t dispute that you’ve helped people here over the years (myself included) that’s not what this is about. You've always give above and beyond to find resolve and remedy.

On the vial point...You’re absolutely right on one narrow technical detail (if residual liquid were present in a used vial) then yes, dilution is chemically possible with a 1 mL sample. That’s fair. My point was never “carryover is impossible,” but that it requires actual liquid volume to meaningfully skew results not just a previously crimped vial being reused dry. That distinction matters.

Where I push back is this part...
One outlier versus many historical results.

Historical performance does deserve weight, I agree with that. But historical performance cannot mathematically override a verified quantitative outlier when batch specific drift/issue is exactly what’s being alleged. Both things can be true at the same time. A source can be historically solid, and still have a single compromised batch. Those are not mutually exclusive.

As for questioning storage, transfer, and unopened vial testing, I actually agree with you. That’s why I said the best outcome is to locate multiple customers from the same batch, same compound, same distributor, same window and test those. That is literally the most statistically correct resolution path. I’m not opposed to further testing, I’m advocating for it. I also clearly started only Bigjp knows if he's acting ethically.

What I reject is this being reduced to...It must be competitors, a reputation attack, or an agenda. There is no refund ask, no compensation attempt, no financial leverage, and no coordinated narrative behind this. Unless through your communication with Bigjp outside the thread has taken place. Again I don't know so don't get tied up in this.

There is only...A blind submission, a quantitative result, and unresolved batch level uncertainty. That’s not prejudice. That’s an incomplete data set asking for completion.

If the batch re-tests clean across multiple independent vials, I’ll say exactly that publicly. That’s how verification works.

I’m not here to bash a source.
I’m here to separate emotion from chemistry.

What concerns me most at this stage is not disagreement, it’s the continued redirection away from verification. A well-funded, premium priced operation with full manufacturing or distribution control has the ability to resolve this cleanly and transparently. Unless.... Something is wrong and looking to be hidden.

The most reasonable path forward would be to identify other customers in this same thread who purchased the same batch, same compound, same timeframe, through the same vendor, and submit those for independent testing. That removes speculation entirely. Reframing the issue around motives, competitors, or reputation does not move us closer to the truth. Batch matched replication does.

 

[RThoads]

Do you know if there is any testing for the same batch that he sent for testing? That way it can put everyone’s arguments to bed

@Pharmacom Support shared a 2025 result that is very likely to be from the same batch.
Nonetheless, some of the guys here will reject it because the source ordered the testing (yet, they want the source to pay other guys to get testing -- makes a lot of sense, they can just say that it doesn't count because the source paid you to get the testing so its bias etc.).

But, I was able to find this MIX-M result on Reddit from the exact same time BigJP placed his order. Again, very likely to be the same batch since the store usually has the same batch for sale for a long time (many batches are huge runs that last months, or even longer).

View: https://www.reddit.com/r/Basicstero/comments/1ntrn1r/masteron_and_primo_results/


If I have some time, I may try to search for some additional results -- I'm sure some others customs must have posted something else somewhere (maybe even telegram or European forums).

However, to be honest, I am losing interest and getting tired of this bullshit -- I have nothing to gain or lose here. I just try to help everyone but life is short and schedules are busy. Is this truly the best way I can be spending my limited time?
Some of these guy are disrespectful towards me without knowing me or having any direct conversations with me.
They just reject anything that does not fit what they decided to think.
What do I owe them? why? what do I gain for all the time I put in?
Will they even care if I find other results?

So right now, going to BJJ class with my family, maybe practicing some guitar, making a nice dinner, or just relaxing to spend some quality time with the people I love, all sounds much more appealing to me than spending hours searching the internet and debating ransom names on a discussion forum like its 2007.

Shit man, nowadays, no one can even be sure that everyone online is even real.

Please understand I care -- hopefully all the time and effort on posts here prove that. But I am not a young man (I'm almost 50 years old) and life is short. So I serious think about what I could be doing instead of this.
Is this discussion enriching my life? Is it a positive enjoyable experience? Is there some reason I'm required to do it? What do I get out of the experience? am I wasting time that I could put into better things?

So I just don't know if I want to put much more effort into this.

 

[BALLISTIC]

@RThoads...genuinely, no one is dismissing the time you’ve put in here. You’ve helped a lot of people over the years, and nothing I’ve written was meant to diminish that. The tension here isn’t personal; it’s procedural. You weren’t the target of my earlier comments, even if the tone landed wrong. Again I don't think I disrespected you at all but I extend an apology due to perception. Text has no context. I'm sure if this conversation took place face to face you would see I'm not on the offense or defense with the exception to the founders message and potential blame shifting as previously stated.

To answer Isrrike’s question directly...
Yes, a MIX-M result from around the same timeframe is valuable data, but only if it is batch matched, not just chronologically close. The same compound from the same month doesn’t automatically mean the same fill, especially when runs can vary or when different distributors pull from different manufactured tiers. That’s why people aren’t rejecting the idea, they’re just pointing out that a result is only conclusive if it ties to the exact batch.

That’s why I keep stressing the same point...

The cleanest, least debatable resolution is multiple tests from customers who bought the same batch, same compound, same distributor, and same timeframe as BigJP.

Not because older results don’t matter they most certainly do, but because batch specific drift is exactly what’s being discussed as possibility. Historical performance doesn’t invalidate an outlier, and a single outlier doesn’t invalidate history. Both can be true.

No one is asking you to spend hours digging through Reddit or telegram threads. Your contributions already speak for themselves. The issue isn’t about loyalty, motives, or drama, it’s about closing the data gap as cleanly as possible.

If others with matching batch numbers step forward and their vials test in line with label claims, then that settles it. If they don’t, that tells its own story. Either way, the truth comes from replication, not personalities.

 

[lipzz17]

These guys sure seem to be going out of their way to insult and demean their customers - I feel insulted by their response here.

I agree, they appear to be a little bit childish if i can put in that way.. i was thinking in buying from them but after see how they treat their customers i changed my mind.

 

[BigJP]

To answer a couple loose ends pertaining to me specifically, the 3 samples of pharmacom products were extracted and submitted into clean, previously unused 3ml glass vials. Nobody paid me or contributed to the cost of testing.
I have not asked for any form of compensation from the manufacturer.
I use these products and sent them off so I know how to accurately dose them for myself. The fact that they didn’t come back as advertised is what it is.
I didn’t appreciate immediately and continuously getting accused of scamming. On the flip side
@RThoads is someone that has helped me with my pharmacom orders and customer service for ten years. From my understanding he’s just a regular guy like us that uses the products and helps on here when we can.
So no hard feelings towards him.
Will I do my own research that I havent bothered doing In years so I’m more informed on other sourcing options? Definitely

 

[Raww]

I am not sure how your post is relevant.
Please, don't take it as an attack or insult -- I genuinely don't understand.

Are you saying that how you guys feel the source reacted to BigJP's results intimidates you or prevent you from pursuing testing of your own?

How a source reacts or doesn't react has no power over preventing you from doing what you choose to do.
You can order or not order from whomever you choose -- no one forces you to buy from, or not buy from, anyone.
And, you are free to do whatever you want with what you buy -- no one can stop you from getting testing.

No, nobody it being forced. Although ridicule and shame are powerful forces.

No, the problem is - attacking him makes you look guilty, and makes your pleas of being open and honest look suspect.

There are two ways of dealing with a PR problem - the first is open, honest, and transparent.

The second is to attack, obfuscate, and distract.

In no world does calling the person who brought this to your attention a 'scammer' meet the first description.

The open, honest, and transparent way to show that 'maybe' BigJP's results are not valid - is to ... right here in this forum, for all to see ... arrange to pay him to ship any other of your product he has off for further testing. You could combine that with ... right here on this forum, for all to see ... open calls for any other customers who may have some of your product from the same batch's to do the same on your dime. Openly arrange for the results to be published - this clears your name and makes you look like you genuinely believe there may have been a mistake in BigJp's testing somewhere and that you have full confidence in your product.

Calling him a scammer. Posting results that are not from the same batch's. Saying that his testing procedures aren't valid. Saying other people can pay to test their stuff - these are all attacks, obfuscations, and distractions.

They do the exact opposite of making you look like you have full confidence in your product.

 

[BALLISTIC]

To answer a couple loose ends pertaining to me specifically, the 3 samples of pharmacom products were extracted and submitted into clean, previously unused 3ml glass vials. Nobody paid me or contributed to the cost of testing.
I have not asked for any form of compensation from the manufacturer.
I use these products and sent them off so I know how to accurately dose them for myself. The fact that they didn’t come back as advertised is what it is.
I didn’t appreciate immediately and continuously getting accused of scamming. On the flip side
@RThoads is someone that has helped me with my pharmacom orders and customer service for ten years. From my understanding he’s just a regular guy like us that uses the products and helps on here when we can.
So no hard feelings towards him.
Will I do my own research that I havent bothered doing In years so I’m more informed on other sourcing options? Definitely

Appreciate you clarifying all of this, BigJP especially the part about using new, unused 3 mL glass vials, because that directly aligns with what Janoshik recommended. That removes any remaining questions about transfer or contamination. It keeps getting bright up however, to send in unopened vials as received. This will void blind testing. Also before anyone tries to jump with conclusions, I'm not saying Pharmacom and Janoshik are in bed together for financial procurement.

Your statement also confirms the two most important points of this entire discussion. No one funded the test, pressured the test, or compensated you. The submission was blind, clean, and followed standard protocol.

That alone eliminates the narrative of agendas, scamming, or bias. At this point, we’re left with the numbers, nothing more, nothing less.

Now that the submission method and motives are no longer in question, the only productive next step remains the same one I mentioned earlier, with replication testing from others who purchased the exact same batch, same compound, same timeframe, and same distributor.

If those results align, great, that answers it.
If they don’t, that also answers it. I highly doubt despite whatever outcome this source will receive to much harm (that's not the purpose). Again numerous test have aligned appropriately when tested historically.

If they were paying attention they would notice your a 10+member, 10yr customer and maybe approach differently.

As mentioned elsewhere I also have been a long term customer of theirs. I've always had great results. I recently vacated due to the outrageous pricing. The only time it made financial sense was during a promotion if spending enough to warrant such benefit international shipped.

 

[RThoads]

@RThoads let me be very clear, because this has obviously crossed wires that were never intended to cross.

My comments about “going under,” defensiveness, and market pressure were not aimed at you personally. They were directed at the founder’s response as quoted and the narrative being pushed there. You did previously mention supply side stress and possible production issues, and I referenced that only in the context of broader market conditions, not as an accusation toward you.

If my wording came across as a personal slight toward you, that was not my intent, and I’ll own that communication matters. I don’t dispute that you’ve helped people here over the years (myself included) that’s not what this is about. You've always give above and beyond to find resolve and remedy.

On the vial point...You’re absolutely right on one narrow technical detail (if residual liquid were present in a used vial) then yes, dilution is chemically possible with a 1 mL sample. That’s fair. My point was never “carryover is impossible,” but that it requires actual liquid volume to meaningfully skew results not just a previously crimped vial being reused dry. That distinction matters.

Where I push back is this part...
One outlier versus many historical results.

Historical performance does deserve weight, I agree with that. But historical performance cannot mathematically override a verified quantitative outlier when batch specific drift/issue is exactly what’s being alleged. Both things can be true at the same time. A source can be historically solid, and still have a single compromised batch. Those are not mutually exclusive.

As for questioning storage, transfer, and unopened vial testing, I actually agree with you. That’s why I said the best outcome is to locate multiple customers from the same batch, same compound, same distributor, same window and test those. That is literally the most statistically correct resolution path. I’m not opposed to further testing, I’m advocating for it. I also clearly started only Bigjp knows if he's acting ethically.

What I reject is this being reduced to...It must be competitors, a reputation attack, or an agenda. There is no refund ask, no compensation attempt, no financial leverage, and no coordinated narrative behind this. Unless through your communication with Bigjp outside the thread has taken place. Again I don't know so don't get tied up in this.

There is only...A blind submission, a quantitative result, and unresolved batch level uncertainty. That’s not prejudice. That’s an incomplete data set asking for completion.

If the batch re-tests clean across multiple independent vials, I’ll say exactly that publicly. That’s how verification works.

I’m not here to bash a source.
I’m here to separate emotion from chemistry.

What concerns me most at this stage is not disagreement, it’s the continued redirection away from verification. A well-funded, premium priced operation with full manufacturing or distribution control has the ability to resolve this cleanly and transparently. Unless.... Something is wrong and looking to be hidden.

The most reasonable path forward would be to identify other customers in this same thread who purchased the same batch, same compound, same timeframe, through the same vendor, and submit those for independent testing. That removes speculation entirely. Reframing the issue around motives, competitors, or reputation does not move us closer to the truth. Batch matched replication does.

I appreciate you taking the time to clarify this.
Likewise, please accept my apology for interpreting some of your remarks as aimed at me.

I am sorry if my assumptions about you were also wrong.
After reading your statement hear, I feel like we share the same desire to know the facts and we both mean well.
I echo and agree with almost everything you said here (I would say I agree with it all but I am very tired and may not have critically read every little detail so I don't want anyone misquoting me later).

I wrote a lot here and I respect if you don't have the time or desire to read it (I question putting in so much online myself, so I completely understand if you, or anyone else, have better things to do with your time).

I don't think the results in question are accurate. I suspect there was an error in these results and, while I'm not sure how to get there, I really hope we can see a positive resolution for all parties involved.

But as I have already said, even if the results are true, nothing there shows any dangerous risks -- the results don't even claim that the wrong AAS were used. I still have not done the math, but worse case is that the batch was under dosed.
So I feel like people are excited to pounce on any opportunity to bash this source, and I don't understand why. Its as if they are excited and want to see Basicstero have a problem -- as if they like there to be a problem here, but why?
What is 250/300... about 80%?
+/- 10% is widely considered a passing results.

That is not the same as having the wrong active agent or dangerous contamination. I respect anyone is free to disagree (no one if forced to shop here) but I will still be using these products even if the results were accurate, and I would still consider this one of the best source of which I'm aware. (on a side note, I really don't have other sources right now, so if you are very confident in a good one, anyone is free to shoot me a PM and let me know -- I have helped a lot of guys here and it never hurts for me to have some other options).

Please believe me, I thanked BigJP both publicly and privately for getting testing. He seems like a good dude and was nothing but kind and respectful when we talked. I told him that he did the right thing to share his results and that I have also share less-than-perfect results in the past.
I had been paying for my own testing and always sharing results even before I was involved with Basictero.

I also agree that the source reacted strongly at first. But in private, I explained to BigJP why I thought there was a reaction like this.
I am not justifying, saying its ok, or agreeing with the strong negative reaction; but, I just explained that I understand the reaction and why from the source's point of view (also only human and emotional during a difficult time) their may have been the strong reaction.

I've written a lot and I need to get off the computer soon.
I apologize for any typos or other mistakes, or is my stream of consciousnesses doesn't even make sense.
So let me say this before I take a break.

I find it strange that a community full of AAS users seem to hate AAS producers as if they are enemies. That has always been strange to me; I have been very kind, respectful, and helpful towards everyone, both fellow members and sources. I have become friends with some of the source here over the years and friends with awesome members here over the years. We all have much more in common than most guys here realize (a few did become sources and I am sure they now understand both sides).

Most people will never understand just how much bullshit source's deal with and how many scam attempts. Its constant and ranges from individuals trying to get little things to huge organized rings trying to get tens of thousands of dollars. That is all on top of an already difficult industry; any business is difficult, but this type of business has some unique additional challenges in the supply chain and legal risks.

It doesn't excuse anything or justify anything, but I just hope people can try to understand others' perspectives.
Of course I am also not without bias because I know some of the Basicstero / Pharmacom Labs guys for many years now and some of them are good friends; I also know things that have proven to me that they are good people and try their best to truly offer the best quality they can. I also know that every business with have many different personality type and I'm sure there are some lazy assholes somewhere in the staff (if I had to guess, there may even be some staff that rip-off and scam the company, because that happens in many businesses).
But the couple of top management guys I know are really good guys and I've seen them make choices that meant losing a lot of money or market share because they valued their integrity more.

With that said, I must logically conclude that it is better to have a hostile aggressive community here on MESO, if that is necessary to help ensure the highest quality products possible, than to have no pressure on sources and allow dangerous risks.

I want access to clean safe high-quality gear -- that end goal is something I think most of the real people here share.

Thank you for your effort to try to help ensure we all have access to good products.
And, thanks again for the kindness towards me to clarify some things.
Much respect to you for that.

 

[RThoads]

No, the problem is - attacking him makes you look guilty, and makes your pleas of being open and honest look suspect.

There are two ways of dealing with a PR problem - the first is open, honest, and transparent.

The second is to attack, obfuscate, and distract.

In no world does calling the person who brought this to your attention a 'scammer' meet the first description.

I think you misunderstand me. I thanked @BigJP both publicly and privately.
I said that I supported him sharing his results and that it is the right thing to do (I have also shared results -- I shared all results to which I have access, not just the best ones).

Please reply here in public with the quotes where I attacked BigJP.
I'm confident I did not attack him because I was disappointed things took such a negative turn and I wanted to try help get everyone to work together towards figuring out whats going on.

I repeatedly stated to please not take my questioning as accusation and I repeatably stated that we should all work together to figure it our, not turn against each other

Yes, it is true I openly stated that I question the validity of the results.
But, this is not a personal attack towards BigJP or Jano or Basicstero.
I said it so many times because it is a difficult topic to talk about without people assuming questioning things, and suggesting possibilities, are accusations.

I am questioning and trying to figure things out -- that is not accusing.
There are a lot of other results, many years worth, including other customer results, that have all been good.
So it is strange to me that suddenly these results are different.
This is three different products, not possible to be the same batch, and likely produced at much different times (different months, maybe different years), that suddenly give approximately 10% to 20% underdosed results.
But all the many other results have been good.
That just seem strange to me and makes me think that maybe there is an error in these results. So I try to explore from where possible error may arise.
Can't you understand my point-of-view?
Does my concern really seem that unreasonable to you?

I just want to know the facts. And, yes, bothers me if Basicstero or Pharmacom Labs get bashed because some of the management are my friends. I have known some of these guys for nearly a decade.

Is it strange to you that I would care about friends I've known for decade when their business, source of income, livelihood, and means to support their households, is under attack?
I think you, and most people, would do the same thing is their friends' business was under attack.

And, to be clear, I am not saying BigJP attacked them, because he did not. All Big JP did was share some results.
Its bunch of you armchair quarterbacks that aren't even in the game that attacked my friends.

There are some really good members here with well though out reasoning and good intentions. I greatly appreciate guys like that.
But a bunch of guys here just jump on a band wagon and make negativity just to participate and impress each other.

 

[RThoads]

I’m not choosing sides i was just asking for my own knowledge my friend. I think the arguments here is that this is the only test showing this batch number. Where as the other tests have”10” wrapped around the vial

I can see you have been neutral in this discussion, I never took your question as anything less than genuine and reasonable.
When the source sends Jano samples, they remove the label to make it a blind result (to remove potential accusations that Jano gave a favorable result).
The removal of the label is for good intentions -- a blind sample.
Similar to why others send blind samples.

 

[RThoads]

@RThoads is someone that has helped me with my pharmacom orders and customer service for ten years. From my understanding he’s just a regular guy like us that uses the products and helps on here when we can.
So no hard feelings towards him.
Will I do my own research that I havent bothered doing In years so I’m more informed on other sourcing options? Definitely

Thank you. Some of these guys completely misunderstand me bro.
Its good that they want to defend you, but I never attacked you.
So I appreciate you taking the time to share some kind words about me here.

Much respect to you too for being calm, respectful, and reasonable throughout this discussion. It would have been even more chaos and confusion if it weren't for your emotional stability and calmness.

Thanks again for getting analytic testing and sharing the results -- as I said before, you meant well and you did the right thing brother.
I'll shoot you another PM a little later tonight if I get some time.