Old man getting in shape on TRT- lean mass confusion- interested in discussion! Trying to get shredded for once in my life before I’m too old.

[Mfras]

Howdy!

TLDR- large framed old fat guy coming back from injury and down to 255 from 355lbs, multiple dexas says 210 lean mass- insane false readings? Current alltime best but still garbage physique in photo with a shot of me at my fattest too.

I’m late 40s and was fat my whole life, had adolescent gyno, very active thru my early 30s though- high school sports & lifting, in my 20s had club bouncing jobs, moved safes and pianos professionally. I have D1 college football linemen friends and I’m not doorway filling big like that, but always been one of the tallest largest framed men in the room most of the time. Rode a bicycle 10mi/day to work all thru my 20s too.

6’ 3” tall, currently 255lbs. Got totally smashed in a 2013 bike wreck- rt forarm and calf put back together with screws & plates. Major upper body atrophy and got way fatter- hit a high of 355lbs and got my shit together like 3 years ago. Started TRT my test was like 200.

Ate cleaner, 3x/week full body split, dropped to 315. Not enough effort- time to get serious. Started tracking cals & macros, 5 day lifting split, walking. Used scale & measuring tape to track progress- lots of pics too. Everything kept getting smaller and I’m finally lean enough to see body parts start getting bigger from lifting as the stubborn fat holds on but I’m leaning out around the edges. Upper chest (above titty fat!) went from 53” down to 50” and now up to 52”- veins & definition with a pump but not big yet. Calves went from 21” down to 19.5, now back up to 20”. Thigh definition is coming in and chubb is melting off. Spare tire is almost gone but I have a way to go to see a nice taper. Obliques & abs starting to show in good light. Waist went from 46” to 38” measured around the chubb not under.

Sometimes numbers are helpful for motivation but I don’t put a lot of stock in them and I’m committed to keep working until I hit my goals. I know I’ll have extra skin and won’t ever be on the cover of men’s health magazine or impress a bodybuilder with my physique but I want to get shredded and vascular for once in my life, then stay below 15% for good and I’m enjoying the BB lifestyle. Wife is a powerlifter, currently cutting and way hotter than I deserve. Bigtime support.

Around 270lbs I met with a friend’s BB prep coach for some help insuring my recomp continued as my cut got slower and harder. He gets results and is a smart dude. He suggested I go up from 200mg TRT to 300mg/week and look at adding in some peptides- tesamorelin, low dose reta, mots C, 5-amino. Mild fat loss & metabolism boost stuff.

So before I started that stack I did bloodwork and got a dexa scan so I could get the most scientific results available. My training and diet were already dialed in, so I could keep those variables constant. I did another dexa and blood after 8 weeks on his suggested stack too. Visceral fat went a little quicker and lifts continued to progress. Bloods better than ever.

So here’s my confusion- the dexa was of course different from the (garbage) inbody results, but not by a lot. The dexa was done at a medical center so the operator was properly trained and it wasn’t a mickey mouse operation with an uncalibrated machine. I know they can commonly be 5% off up or down, and up to 10% off in general, and there is no way to accurately measure bodyfat other than seeing someone who’s either fat or totally peeled. I also know that a ton of people that are my height, lean, and have way stronger upper bodies are often more like 180lbs total weight. They also often have slim hips and legs 1/2 my size.

The dexa said I was at 20% bodyfat at 264lbs, and 110lbs lean mass with bone density at the tippy top of the scale. Which would mean that IF it’s correct I would be at 10%bf around 230lbs. So for now that’s my target weight to finish this cut. If I’m still not visually lean I’m happy to maintain for a bit then cut more. No big deal I know how to do it and I’m happy to do the work.

But it’s been pointed out to me (here!) that it’s impossible for my lean mass to be 210- wrong by “several orders of magnitude”. My legs are strong as fuck but I’m only benching 225 currently, and can only do a pullup with 30lbs of assistance (had to measure the assisted machine with dumbbells the #s on the stack are way off).

My current goal is to hit 230lbs body weight by spring, flat bench 250 & three strict pullups by summer. I will do this and more to come, no doubt in my mind. I took what I liked from the 8 week peptide stack (300T, 3mg reta) and added 4iu hgh to cruise to the end of my planned cut to 230lbs. If I’m still fat there will be true TRT & maintenance followed by another cut. If I’m lean enough I’ll do a mild cycle this summer instead to start filling my skin back out some.

So am I crazy as fuck to believe that 230lbs will definitely be somewhere between 10%-15% bodyfat? Because I’m fine with whatever happens but it seems reasonable to me since under the fat I carry an ogre sized frame and have bigger leg muscles than 99% of the lifters I’m around who can bench 300+ and are not chicken leg bros.

I’d love to hear opinions- my ego is not tied up in these numbers and they are just motivational for me. I have a realistic concept of my strengths and weaknesses and I’m not interested in being better than anybody, dick measuring, or making wild claims. It’s just a point of curiosity.

Thanks!
MFRAS

 

[Dial It In]

Howdy!

TLDR- large framed old fat guy coming back from injury and down to 255 from 355lbs, multiple dexas says 210 lean mass- insane false readings? Current alltime best but still garbage physique in photo with a shot of me at my fattest too.

I’m late 40s and was fat my whole life, had adolescent gyno, very active thru my early 30s though- high school sports & lifting, in my 20s had club bouncing jobs, moved safes and pianos professionally. I have D1 college football linemen friends and I’m not doorway filling big like that, but always been one of the tallest largest framed men in the room most of the time. Rode a bicycle 10mi/day to work all thru my 20s too.

6’ 3” tall, currently 255lbs. Got totally smashed in a 2013 bike wreck- rt forarm and calf put back together with screws & plates. Major upper body atrophy and got way fatter- hit a high of 355lbs and got my shit together like 3 years ago. Started TRT my test was like 200.

Ate cleaner, 3x/week full body split, dropped to 315. Not enough effort- time to get serious. Started tracking cals & macros, 5 day lifting split, walking. Used scale & measuring tape to track progress- lots of pics too. Everything kept getting smaller and I’m finally lean enough to see body parts start getting bigger from lifting as the stubborn fat holds on but I’m leaning out around the edges. Upper chest (above titty fat!) went from 53” down to 50” and now up to 52”- veins & definition with a pump but not big yet. Calves went from 21” down to 19.5, now back up to 20”. Thigh definition is coming in and chubb is melting off. Spare tire is almost gone but I have a way to go to see a nice taper. Obliques & abs starting to show in good light. Waist went from 46” to 38” measured around the chubb not under.

Sometimes numbers are helpful for motivation but I don’t put a lot of stock in them and I’m committed to keep working until I hit my goals. I know I’ll have extra skin and won’t ever be on the cover of men’s health magazine or impress a bodybuilder with my physique but I want to get shredded and vascular for once in my life, then stay below 15% for good and I’m enjoying the BB lifestyle. Wife is a powerlifter, currently cutting and way hotter than I deserve. Bigtime support.

Around 270lbs I met with a friend’s BB prep coach for some help insuring my recomp continued as my cut got slower and harder. He gets results and is a smart dude. He suggested I go up from 200mg TRT to 300mg/week and look at adding in some peptides- tesamorelin, low dose reta, mots C, 5-amino. Mild fat loss & metabolism boost stuff.

So before I started that stack I did bloodwork and got a dexa scan so I could get the most scientific results available. My training and diet were already dialed in, so I could keep those variables constant. I did another dexa and blood after 8 weeks on his suggested stack too. Visceral fat went a little quicker and lifts continued to progress. Bloods better than ever.

So here’s my confusion- the dexa was of course different from the (garbage) inbody results, but not by a lot. The dexa was done at a medical center so the operator was properly trained and it wasn’t a mickey mouse operation with an uncalibrated machine. I know they can commonly be 5% off up or down, and up to 10% off in general, and there is no way to accurately measure bodyfat other than seeing someone who’s either fat or totally peeled. I also know that a ton of people that are my height, lean, and have way stronger upper bodies are often more like 180lbs total weight. They also often have slim hips and legs 1/2 my size.

The dexa said I was at 20% bodyfat at 264lbs, and 110lbs lean mass with bone density at the tippy top of the scale. Which would mean that IF it’s correct I would be at 10%bf around 230lbs. So for now that’s my target weight to finish this cut. If I’m still not visually lean I’m happy to maintain for a bit then cut more. No big deal I know how to do it and I’m happy to do the work.

But it’s been pointed out to me (here!) that it’s impossible for my lean mass to be 210- wrong by “several orders of magnitude”. My legs are strong as fuck but I’m only benching 225 currently, and can only do a pullup with 30lbs of assistance (had to measure the assisted machine with dumbbells the #s on the stack are way off).

My current goal is to hit 230lbs body weight by spring, flat bench 250 & three strict pullups by summer. I will do this and more to come, no doubt in my mind. I took what I liked from the 8 week peptide stack (300T, 3mg reta) and added 4iu hgh to cruise to the end of my planned cut to 230lbs. If I’m still fat there will be true TRT & maintenance followed by another cut. If I’m lean enough I’ll do a mild cycle this summer instead to start filling my skin back out some.

So am I crazy as fuck to believe that 230lbs will definitely be somewhere between 10%-15% bodyfat? Because I’m fine with whatever happens but it seems reasonable to me since under the fat I carry an ogre sized frame and have bigger leg muscles than 99% of the lifters I’m around who can bench 300+ and are not chicken leg bros.

I’d love to hear opinions- my ego is not tied up in these numbers and they are just motivational for me. I have a realistic concept of my strengths and weaknesses and I’m not interested in being better than anybody, dick measuring, or making wild claims. It’s just a point of curiosity.

Thanks!
MFRAS

Your loose skin can cause it to be more of a lean mass reading than it really is. The technician should account for the amount of loose skin you have. On another note great work you’ve done. I’m a far end of 40 guy myself so I know it gets harder. Don’t get tied up in what other guys can and can’t do vs what you can or can’t do in the gym. That is a good way to get into your head. Keep working and learn when to change things up

 

[Mfras]

Your loose skin can cause it to be more of a lean mass reading than it really is. The technician should account for the amount of loose skin you have. On another note great work you’ve done. I’m a far end of 40 guy myself so I know it gets harder. Don’t get tied up in what other guys can and can’t do vs what you can or can’t do in the gym. That is a good way to get into your head. Keep working and learn when to change things up

Thanks! While I’m not feeling like the ladies are gonna swarm me at the beach I’m proud of what I’ve accomplished so far and feel like I look good in street clothes.

Interesting comment about skin! I have some inner thigh skin and belly but not full on melted candle like you see on a 110lb woman that lost 200lbs on ozempic.

I definitely work out in my own lane- I’m not really comparing myself to others except that some goals are universal- hitting 225 bench felt both underwhelming at my size and also like an official welcome to intermediate lifter status. I mostly incline and decline and do flys on chest day but I use flat bench enough to stay in practice and to gauge strength once in a while. I warm up well and keep working sets mostly in the 8-15 rep range before adding weight. Not trying to get hurt!

As far as changing things up I tend to keep to classic moves that I do every time for each muscle group, and switch up a 3rd or 4th exercise around to keep things fun. Once in a while I’ll experiment with things like high reps for legs for a while.

As far as the skin skewing the reading I had a dude here say I was claiming to have the same muscle mass as Arnold in his prime (he was 230 offseason and 205ish onstage). Of course I’m not claiming I carry that kind of meat, or at least not in a 24” waist 500lb bench press kind of way. Don’t think I have 30lbs of extra skin. Also not sure I’m rich or vain enough to get it cut off after a year or so of carrying it after I’m done cutting. I’d rather just let it tighten as much as possible and add meat to fill back out! But also maybe I’m foolish but I don’t think I’m a 150lb man swimming in a fatsuit.

 

[Dial It In]

Thanks! While I’m not feeling like the ladies are gonna swarm me at the beach I’m proud of what I’ve accomplished so far and feel like I look good in street clothes.

Interesting comment about skin! I have some inner thigh skin and belly but not full on melted candle like you see on a 110lb woman that lost 200lbs on ozempic.

I definitely work out in my own lane- I’m not really comparing myself to others except that some goals are universal- hitting 225 bench felt both underwhelming at my size and also like an official welcome to intermediate lifter status. I mostly incline and decline and do flys on chest day but I use flat bench enough to stay in practice and to gauge strength once in a while. I warm up well and keep working sets mostly in the 8-15 rep range before adding weight. Not trying to get hurt!

As far as changing things up I tend to keep to classic moves that I do every time for each muscle group, and switch up a 3rd or 4th exercise around to keep things fun. Once in a while I’ll experiment with things like high reps for legs for a while.

As far as the skin skewing the reading I had a dude here say I was claiming to have the same muscle mass as Arnold in his prime (he was 230 offseason and 205ish onstage). Of course I’m not claiming I carry that kind of meat, or at least not in a 24” waist 500lb bench press kind of way. Don’t think I have 30lbs of extra skin. Also not sure I’m rich or vain enough to get it cut off after a year or so of carrying it after I’m done cutting. I’d rather just let it tighten as much as possible and add meat to fill back out! But also maybe I’m foolish but I don’t think I’m a 150lb man swimming in a fatsuit.

You aren’t claiming Arnold mass you are just stating what they told you. It was just a miss not considering the skin into account. I encourage you to read up on it. You can probably find a thread in here that covers Dexa. When I say mix things up I meant if you hit a plateau. Just do you and be happy. Some guys are going to be assholes but some are just brutally honest so that is a difference to note.

 

[Mfras]

You aren’t claiming Arnold mass you are just stating what they told you. It was just a miss not considering the skin into account. I encourage you to read up on it. You can probably find a thread in here that covers Dexa. When I say mix things up I meant if you hit a plateau. Just do you and be happy. Some guys are going to be assholes but some are just brutally honest so that is a difference to note.

Cheers.

 

[Etownsmokey]

Just read your post and you have got to be so damn proud of yourself. Congratulations on the progress and good luck on your remaining journey.

 

[Mfras]

Just read your post and you have got to be so damn proud of yourself. Congratulations on the progress and good luck on your remaining journey.

Thanks man.

 

[biggerben69]

I appreciate your candor. I believe it will serve you well on your journey. You tell it like it is.

Your intro is much different than I'm used to seeing. I like it. The drugs are almost an afterthought. I don't think I've ever said this in response to a members intro...because drugs are usually in the forefront of most intros. I would advise to not overlook the drugs.

I'm guessing you haven't used much gear at all? You still have a lot of muscle building years ahead of you. You're a young man compared to many of us. I'm 54. I've always worked out..it was my escape. The iron was always there for me. Waiting for me to use and abuse it as much as I like.

You have fantastic legs. A great base. They will assist you in bringing your upper body to match your lower half. Your looking better already. Shoulders are coming along. Put some caps on them to help with the illusion of a smaller waist. I know your already down to 38" but wide shoulders will help that along.

Just because you can't see it well doesn't mean its not important. Your upper back and rear delts would look great and help the X frame and make the waist look smaller. Rack pulls and bent over rows.

Keep your diet fairly clean and leave the beer and booze alone. Alcohol is the enemy. It will hold progress back like nothing else.

 

[aromatizer]

You should ask the AIs to look at the research studies for optimal fat % for your age bracket. Might be surprised.

Being shredded is not associated with longevity as fat has an important role in the immune system. As you age your immune system needs every advantage it can get. In my age group 60+, its a U shape curve with the sweet spot from meta studies at about 25%, with 20-30% still ok. much below 20% is associated with a reduction in life span as is over 30%.

Shredded is fine for short periods or when you are young but not optimal long term as you age.

 

[Mfras]

I appreciate your candor. I believe it will serve you well on your journey. You tell it like it is.

Your intro is much different than I'm used to seeing. I like it. The drugs are almost an afterthought. I don't think I've ever said this in response to a members intro...because drugs are usually in the forefront of most intros. I would advise to not overlook the drugs.

I'm guessing you haven't used much gear at all? You still have a lot of muscle building years ahead of you. You're a young man compared to many of us. I'm 54. I've always worked out..it was my escape. The iron was always there for me. Waiting for me to use and abuse it as much as I like.

You have fantastic legs. A great base. They will assist you in bringing your upper body to match your lower half. Your looking better already. Shoulders are coming along. Put some caps on them to help with the illusion of a smaller waist. I know your already down to 38" but wide shoulders will help that along.

Just because you can't see it well doesn't mean its not important. Your upper back and rear delts would look great and help the X frame and make the waist look smaller. Rack pulls and bent over rows.

Keep your diet fairly clean and leave the beer and booze alone. Alcohol is the enemy. It will hold progress back like nothing else.

Thanks for the kind words and advice!

I’m on a 5 day split right now- nothing fancy but keeps me sore everywhere . Back is coming along and rear delts are catching up to sides & front delts, which are still growing too. Hitting traps & lats hard!

I eat 210-230g protein per day and lately around 1950-2020 cals. Seems to still be about a lb a week fat coming off. I will have a drink socially but it’s rare- not a drinker and not a beer drinker. The biggest struggle is sleep- I work till 8pm and have to wake up at 5:30 to get my kid off to school, so 6-7hrs can be more common than 8-9.

I figure I can probably get down to a 36” pants size but due to age and frame size yes you’re right I want to build some width up top to offset my general thickness. Workin’ on it!

I’m conservative with ped use compared to some but not afraid to lean on drugs to increase my muscle building progress. I have some experience with different compounds and their effects & management for me. Being done having kids and on trt make it easy to just blast & cruise, but also I’d like to get any heavier blasts out of the way before I’m deeper into middle age.

Appreciate your time and thoughtfulness Biggerben.

 

[Mfras]

You should ask the AIs to look at the research studies for optimal fat % for your age bracket. Might be surprised.

Being shredded is not associated with longevity as fat has an important role in the immune system. As you age your immune system needs every advantage it can get. In my age group 60+, its a U shape curve with the sweet spot from meta studies at about 25%, with 20-30% still ok. much below 20% is associated with a reduction in life span as is over 30%.

Shredded is fine for short periods or when you are young but not optimal long term as you age.

Hey aromatizer!

Whether the dexa is right or wrong I think I’m starting to be in better shape than a large portion of people my age in the USA. Which is a shame I do want to drop into shredded territory just once, but yeah there is no goal of staying super duper lean and I’m not really trying to hit single digits or show ready peeled at all.

The long term goal is just to not have any blobs of fat hanging off me and spoiling the way clothes fit, plus to get my weight down and my strength & flexibility up so I can nive through the world more easily. My knees are already thanking me but at my size it’s likely to wear out joints etc even without carrying 100 extra pounds.