Natural Testosterone of 1480ng/dl, free test 27.6pg/ml, e2 33.9

[OliverKloszof]

Hello Meso,

I was recently gearing up for my first cycle and am having second thoughts. I've been trying to really dial in my diet the past two years, studying aas/peds and have been training for over a decade. I got labs done to check my precycle levels of testosterone, e2, liver enzymes and hematocrit/rbc. As far as I can tell I have the levels of someone on about 250-350mg of testosterone. My first planned cycle was going to be 350mg test. I'm thinking it may be better to try and figure out some way to free up more of my own testosterone and lower my e2 numbers, while training naturally. Looking for herbal supplements that would do this if anyone has knowledge of any proven effective? The week of the test I had a glass of wine and was less strict on my diet consuming less vegetables and a lot more sugars that week, which could have some effect on my e2. I'm 5'8'' 190lbs and 26 years old, visible abs. I eat 3500+ cal a day but i've never been a big sleeper, 4-7 hours most nights. I take zma most nights and try to supplement vitamin d a couple times a week. Any advice on how to get the most out of these levels or how much LBM I can put on and hold with these levels would be greatly appreciated. I attached pics of my lab results, and i've never used an aas.

 

[Dr JIM]

If its not broke don't fix it!

My advice spend all the unnecessary supplement money on a legit TRAINER!

 

[OliverKloszof]

If its not broke don't fix it!

My advice spend all the unnecessary supplement money on a legit TRAINER!

Thanks JIM!! The only reason I thought to juice is that I figured I was pretty close to my natural potential, based off my height weight and measurements. The casey butt calculator puts me right there but I still see changes when I train. I take long breaks periodically and have had a training certificate since I was a teen so I guess just keep training. Would you suggest anything to bring down the e2?

 

[Throwback]

Hello Meso,

I was recently gearing up for my first cycle and am having second thoughts. I've been trying to really dial in my diet the past two years, studying aas/peds and have been training for over a decade. I got labs done to check my precycle levels of testosterone, e2, liver enzymes and hematocrit/rbc. As far as I can tell I have the levels of someone on about 250-350mg of testosterone. My first planned cycle was going to be 350mg test. I'm thinking it may be better to try and figure out some way to free up more of my own testosterone and lower my e2 numbers, while training naturally. Looking for herbal supplements that would do this if anyone has knowledge of any proven effective? The week of the test I had a glass of wine and was less strict on my diet consuming less vegetables and a lot more sugars that week, which could have some effect on my e2. I'm 5'8'' 190lbs and 26 years old, visible abs. I eat 3500+ cal a day but i've never been a big sleeper, 4-7 hours most nights. I take zma most nights and try to supplement vitamin d a couple times a week. Any advice on how to get the most out of these levels or how much LBM I can put on and hold with these levels would be greatly appreciated. I attached pics of my lab results, and i've never used an aas.

View attachment 75133 View attachment 75134

With numbers like that...DO NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT INJ ANYTHING AAS RELATED.
With a good routine and nutrition you can be a monster...you should be able to easily ad 10 lbm/year AND it will be quality muscle.

 

[Johnny442]

Being 26 and having test levels that high, you should be able to make tremendous gains. I know from 26-30 we're the easiest time of my life to get strong as fuck. Stay natty, eat well, and train like a fuckin animal. You should Do well!

 

[Evom1]

The only reason I thought to juice is that I figured I was pretty close to my natural potential, based off my height weight and measurements

No way, my buddies stage weight after like 2 years of working out was natural 185lbs @ 5'9 and normal weight of 200-210lbs. You have room to grow

 

[Michael Scally MD]

Hello Meso,

I was recently gearing up for my first cycle and am having second thoughts. I've been trying to really dial in my diet the past two years, studying aas/peds and have been training for over a decade. I got labs done to check my precycle levels of testosterone, e2, liver enzymes and hematocrit/rbc. As far as I can tell I have the levels of someone on about 250-350mg of testosterone. My first planned cycle was going to be 350mg test. I'm thinking it may be better to try and figure out some way to free up more of my own testosterone and lower my e2 numbers, while training naturally. Looking for herbal supplements that would do this if anyone has knowledge of any proven effective? The week of the test I had a glass of wine and was less strict on my diet consuming less vegetables and a lot more sugars that week, which could have some effect on my e2. I'm 5'8'' 190lbs and 26 years old, visible abs. I eat 3500+ cal a day but i've never been a big sleeper, 4-7 hours most nights. I take zma most nights and try to supplement vitamin d a couple times a week. Any advice on how to get the most out of these levels or how much LBM I can put on and hold with these levels would be greatly appreciated. I attached pics of my lab results, and i've never used an aas.

View attachment 75133 View attachment 75134

Please have your doctor write this up as a case study or at the minimum a letter. I will gladly assist if needed.

 

[OliverKloszof]

Please have your doctor write this up as a cast study or at the minimum a letter. I will gladly assist if needed.

I actually don't currently have an md or insurance, I haven't been to a doctors office since I was 17. I order the blood work through discount labs and it was signed off by doctor Rand McClain who i'm also going to email.

To the other guys, thanks for the words of encouragement. I've been gaining since keeping my diet more consistent and lifting 3 times a week, cutting back on the cardio has helped as I probably get enough from GF time. Another reason for considering them was the joint lubrication and strength. I was very strong in hs and was squatting 385 for a few reps at a body weight of 150ish. After hs I was into kickboxing/MT heavy for a few years so i had to keep my weight stable, but my trainers would always ask what roids I take because of the backne and how quickly my neck and chest thicken when I lift. I feel joint pains and it discourages me from lifting heavy but i train hard, squats for example I'll do 2-3 sets of 20-25reps with just the bar and a 45lb plate on each side, slow deep reps, I squat, dead and bench pretty much every workout, but have thought about switching to a split routine.

 

[OliverKloszof]

To update I'm up a few lbs in weight with lagging parts coming up some, training with the same weights, but really focusing on posture, form and squeezing harder on the lagging side. Trying to keep to 3 sessions/wk consistently, adding more cardio and yoga if I miss a weight session. Diet has been strict at 250g protein, 210g fat, and 320g carbs, with only about 50g protein from a powder, most of the fats from nuts and healthy oils, and only direct carbs are a couple corn tortillas with my eggs and a half cup dry oats a day the rest is fruits and veg. Sticking to this 6 days a week. Eat a few whole eggs and a small portion of red meat every day.

In terms of supplementation I've been taking 500mg horny goat weed, 1000mg maca, 1000mg methionine inositol and choline cap, and a b complex on an empty stomach in the morning. 10000iu vitamin d, 6000iu vitamin a, and a couple fish oil caps with first meal. 20mg mk-677(have read this slightly drops testosterone in the first 9wks) mid afternoon which has been helping me get 6-9hrs a night sleep which is a lot for me. On training days I take 5-10mg cialas, read it helps free test to estrogen ratio and perhaps better pumps. I ran out of injectable b12 so I take 1000mcg oral at bed with 2 caps of zma, but I usually miss 1-3 days a week taking these. I also take 2000mg arginine, 3-4000mg creatine and 3-4000mg glucosamine msm chon spread throughout the day. I'm going to have blood pulled again the end of October.

As far as stupid questions go I have a few. Would it be a terrible idea to try oral steroids when my weight stabilizes around 210lbs+? I've read about people cruising on 40mg tbol for months at a time and maintaining natural test levels above 500ng, starting with a much lower natural testosterone than mine. I've read posts by Dr. Jim suggesting anavar plus ai for younger roid newbs but could be sarcasm. I've also read internet parroting about 100mg dbol a day suppressing natural test by up to 60%, but can't find the actual study. If my natural testosterone drops 35-60% I would still be in the 600-1000ng range, plus 20-100mg oral stuff ed or eod. Would this not be better than injecting exogenous that will completely shut down my lh? I've read many people say orals don't make gains other than first timers, but I've also read about people taking 5-10mg dbol a day without negative affects long term 1yr+. If 10mg oral is equivalent to about one drink I'm not all that stressed taking a couple, I don't have more than a drink a week if that. Thanks.

 

[Burrr]

wow, there us hope for the future of the male human race

 

[EcpertRealistic]

Hello Meso,

I was recently gearing up for my first cycle and am having second thoughts. I've been trying to really dial in my diet the past two years, studying aas/peds and have been training for over a decade. I got labs done to check my precycle levels of testosterone, e2, liver enzymes and hematocrit/rbc. As far as I can tell I have the levels of someone on about 250-350mg of testosterone. My first planned cycle was going to be 350mg test. I'm thinking it may be better to try and figure out some way to free up more of my own testosterone and lower my e2 numbers, while training naturally. Looking for herbal supplements that would do this if anyone has knowledge of any proven effective? The week of the test I had a glass of wine and was less strict on my diet consuming less vegetables and a lot more sugars that week, which could have some effect on my e2. I'm 5'8'' 190lbs and 26 years old, visible abs. I eat 3500+ cal a day but i've never been a big sleeper, 4-7 hours most nights. I take zma most nights and try to supplement vitamin d a couple times a week. Any advice on how to get the most out of these levels or how much LBM I can put on and hold with these levels would be greatly appreciated. I attached pics of my lab results, and i've never used an aas.

View attachment 75133 View attachment 75134

Whats the purpose of lying?
You are on low dose hcg. Your LH and FSH is too low to have such high levels of testosterone. That blood tests screams that you are on hcg. Not natural levels.


I call bs

 

[OliverKloszof]

Whats the purpose of lying?
You are on low dose hcg. Your LH and FSH is too low to have such high levels of testosterone. That blood tests screams that you are on hcg. Not natural levels.


I call bs

Not lying, I was under the impression fsh should only be high if the plums have taken abuse. I don't have any reason to lie. I originally came to this forum to study AAS and get advice on cycling when I'm ready. I got this blood panel to determine my baseline levels. The only things i've ever injected myself with are b12 and ghrp2 back in January for a couple weeks.

 

[Eman]

That blood tests screams that you are on hcg.

It doesn't.

 

[Deleted member 59947]

Whats the purpose of lying?
You are on low dose hcg. Your LH and FSH is too low to have such high levels of testosterone. That blood tests screams that you are on hcg. Not natural levels.


I call bs

You're just a tosser and your calling BS won't make anyone bat an eye.
But I'll answer you just because I want to shut your mouth:

When I was on my clomid regimen my total test went up to 1100 and my free test was 40% higher than OP at 36, while my FSH was at 4 and my LH at 3.

 

[Deisel26]

Whats the purpose of lying?
You are on low dose hcg. Your LH and FSH is too low to have such high levels of testosterone. That blood tests screams that you are on hcg. Not natural levels.


I call bs

This fool right here is a special type of retard. I hope to god u don't follow your own advice!

 

[DedLift]

If your natural test levels are that high, using AAS would be a sure fire way to PERMANENTLY lower your natural test production. You shouldn't even be thinking about using gear. Anyone on this forum would kill for those numbers so why break it when its already fixed

 

[Marcus]

I aim for lower numbers in my TRT... lol, now I feel like I shouldn’t be

 

[OliverKloszof]

If your natural test levels are that high, using AAS would be a sure fire way to PERMANENTLY lower your natural test production. You shouldn't even be thinking about using gear. Anyone on this forum would kill for those numbers so why break it when its already fixed

Putting the fear of god in me lol. Thanks, I'm not trying to be argumentative nor break my hpta. I was just curious about the orals because even suppressed the levels may stay in the high or normal range. I took ostarine for a couple weeks back in January and seemed to have bounced back just fine, I also took it for the week between getting blood drawn and getting the results, coming off immediately because i'm not trying to mess up a good thing. I've seen blood work posts on the internet of peoples natural levels being higher 2-6months post pct, also the opposite with suppression years later. I don't know if this is a genetic thing or improper pct.

I'm also thinking about adding tongkat ali, it would easy for me to grow this along with maca and horny goat weed they really seem to put some lead in my pencil and I already garden extensively. I'm trying to do anything I can to improve my t/e and free test ratios, not that they're bad. I've been cutting back on my cannabis consumption as well as i've read mixed things about its impact on t/e.

 

[Thaistick]

Don't touch drugs with those numbers. Please listen to the advice given and spend your time and money on training and diet.

 

[EcpertRealistic]

Don't touch drugs with those numbers. Please listen to the advice given and spend your time and money on training and diet.

Too late, look at his FSH and LH levels. On my book low FSH and LH with high total test levels equals juice or hcg