Muscle Building genetics and response to AAS:

[Slowww]

What amount of muscle mass gains in a year would you consider bad/normal/good/elite?

Everybody puts on muscle mass at a different rate and of course the structure of the skeleton, muscle insertions and the muscle bellies itself will play important roles in the visual aesthetic of the muscle. Without considering the visual aesthetic or structure, how do you rank muscle building capabilities?

For the sake of making the claim without arguing about PEDs let’s just say a year of B&C between 300-1500mgs

 

[RockyP]

What amount of muscle mass gains in a year would you consider bad/normal/good/elite?

Everybody puts on muscle mass at a different rate and of course the structure of the skeleton, muscle insertions and the muscle bellies itself will play important roles in the visual aesthetic of the muscle. Without considering the visual aesthetic or structure, how do you rank muscle building capabilities?

For the sake of making the claim without arguing about PEDs let’s just say a year of B&C between 300-1500mgs

If we are assuming this is the virgin cycle, I think elite could be up to around 40 lbs in a year. I dont mean dry tissue, but "fat free mass" - keeping in mind that muscle is mostly water, water retention in the muscle counts. I'm not comparing dehydrated stage ready physiques from day 1 and day 365. But someone with Levrone-esque genetics I think in their early days can do 40+ lbs in a year especially running up to 1.5 g

I believe Evan Centopanni said he gained something like 30 lbs on his first cycle of sust 500 / week. Freaks like that really have crazy potential when the receptors are fresh.

 

[ve79]

If we are assuming this is the virgin cycle, I think elite could be up to around 40 lbs in a year. I dont mean dry tissue, but "fat free mass" - keeping in mind that muscle is mostly water, water retention in the muscle counts. I'm not comparing dehydrated stage ready physiques from day 1 and day 365. But someone with Levrone-esque genetics I think in their early days can do 40+ lbs in a year especially running up to 1.5 g

I believe Evan Centopanni said he gained something like 30 lbs on his first cycle of sust 500 / week. Freaks like that really have crazy potential when the receptors are fresh.

Yes but that comes with a high price of edima and high BP with high e2 for some folks. No need to rush but if your trying to get big you need in least 16 to 20 weeks

 

[IndividualMan]

10lbs for a first year long cycle of Test below the 500mg mark is about average in my opinion. maybe below average,

but with a blast and cruise throughout a year, if you do a bulk for 16 weeks, cut for 8-10 weeks, cruise a bit (8-10) and just blast the rest of the year on the dosages you described (up to 1.5 grams, also adding in GH, etc) you can go a long way. even with shit genetics you got 15-20 lbs of lean tissue in a year like that.

above average genetics (84th percentile and up aka 1 SD+, assuming Muscle building genetics follow a normal distribution, similar to stuff like IQ) Could gain around same 12-16lbs, just as contractile tissue instead of just lean tissue. (so around 25-35 lbs of lean tissue)
There are a few German Influencers of the younger generation who occasionally pop up with transfromations like these, most in a 1-year ish timeframe.

with great genetics, the sky is the limit. I think someone who is truly elite could gain 40-50lbs in a year structured like the one just described. (think levrone, dillett, those calibers of athletes)

This obviously assumes perfect diet, perfect training, and no accidents/injuries/mishaps.
Obviously organs like the lungs, heart, digestive tract, etc. are going to suffer from this. Health will be fleeting.

 

[RockyP]

What'd unique is some guys just have the genes where they respond insanely well to gear but also get the side effects. There are a rare few who are hyper responders and whose bloodwork also looks good. There's a guy on here I wont call him out but he looks incredible running around 2000-2500 mg per week and his bloods are pristine. Fitzwater recently said that the only thing that he gets on labs is lipid issues (which are easily fixed with a statin which I'm sure he refuses to take despite being educated). Jordan Hutchinson did a short / video after winning Texas Pro where his BP was like 116 / 65 or something and he insisted he was not taking any BP meds (I actually believe him). Sas Heirati just did a vid where he talked about running 3 to 4 orals simultaneously for 8 weeks during prep. These top pro's really are not like us - they are freaks in every sense of the word. That's why they get to that level.

 

[adrenalytic]

If we are assuming this is the virgin cycle, I think elite could be up to around 40 lbs in a year.

I'm actually on pace for this. Up 23 lbs in 7 months and I think i'm leaner than when I started. Makes me sad I didn't know this about myself when I was younger.

 

[RockyP]

I'm actually on pace for this. Up 23 lbs in 7 months and I think i'm leaner than when I started. Makes me sad I didn't know this about myself when I was younger.

Better late than never. Age is just a number. If you’re dialed in, you’re dialed in. Some of us our best years are later in life.

 

[Biggerisbetternl]

What amount of muscle mass gains in a year would you consider bad/normal/good/elite?

Everybody puts on muscle mass at a different rate and of course the structure of the skeleton, muscle insertions and the muscle bellies itself will play important roles in the visual aesthetic of the muscle. Without considering the visual aesthetic or structure, how do you rank muscle building capabilities?

For the sake of making the claim without arguing about PEDs let’s just say a year of B&C between 300-1500mgs

Out of curiosity I asked an LLM the following:
Me: " predict hypothetical outcomes of the following in a healthy male
125mg test per week for one year
250mg test per week for one year
375mg test per week for one year
500mg test per week for one year
625mg test per week for one year
750mg test per week for one year
1000mg test per week for a year"

LLM:

Spoiler: Read LLM response

Predictions for these hypothetical scenarios in a healthy 25-year-old male (170 cm, 70 kg, 15% body fat, assuming normal training/diet and GnRH suppression-like conditions from key dose-response studies) extrapolate from validated models like those showing linear log-dose relationships for fat-free mass (FFM) gains over 20 weeks, scaled roughly linearly to 1 year with diminishing returns at extremes. Expect ~1.5–2x the 20-week gains annualized (e.g., 3.4 kg FFM at 125 mg scales to ~6–7 kg), plus ~5–15% strength gains, hemoglobin rises (polycythemia risk >500 mg), fat loss (2–6 kg), and HDL drops; higher doses amplify muscle/strength but add toxicity like erythrocytosis, prostate growth, and CV strain beyond ethical trials.[/COLOR]

Predicted body comp changes (after 1 year)​

Weekly Dose	Est. Avg. T (ng/dL)	ΔFFM (kg)	ΔFat (kg)	Final Weight (kg)	Notes
125 mg	~550	+6	-2	~74	TRT-like; mild gains, safe profile
250 mg	~900	+9	-3	~76	Solid hypertrophy, strength +15%
375 mg	~1,400	+11	-4	~77	Approaching supraphysio max; Hb +2 g/dL
500 mg	~1,800	+13	-5	~78	Trial extreme; ~20% strength, lipids worsen
625 mg	~2,200	+14	-5	~79	Diminishing returns; high polycythemia risk
750 mg	~2,500	+15	-6	~79	Extreme; aggression/estrogen sides likely
1000 mg	~3,000+	+16	-6	~80	Untested; severe toxicity (CV, Hct>55%), gains plateau

Key assumptions and risks
Gains assume resistance training (3–5x/week), 2,500–3,000 kcal surplus/protein; real results vary by genetics (±20%). Doses >500 mg exceed trials, risking shutdown, gynecomastia (no AI modeled), clots, and cardiac events—unsustainable long-term without monitoring. Models predict ~70% variance in FFM from log(T); consult MD, as this is not medical advice.

 

[b6798045]

I would say 5 - 25 grams of MPS per day during "optimal bulk/blast" conditions.

My max for 18 weeks was 1.5 kg of lean tissue, so around 12 g per day of MPS.

Probably even higher than 25 grams in cases like newbie gains, elite genetics, first cycle, if someone lost muscle and stared regaining etc.

 

[nathenking]

What amount of muscle mass gains in a year would you consider bad/normal/good/elite?

Everybody puts on muscle mass at a different rate and of course the structure of the skeleton, muscle insertions and the muscle bellies itself will play important roles in the visual aesthetic of the muscle. Without considering the visual aesthetic or structure, how do you rank muscle building capabilities?

For the sake of making the claim without arguing about PEDs let’s just say a year of B&C between 300-1500mgs

Of clean tissue I would be happy with 20 pounds in the first year. Anything above that I would consider Elite. 20 is great for a year IMO

 

[Biggerisbetternl]

Of clean tissue I would be happy with 20 pounds in the first year. Anything above that I would consider Elite. 20 is great for a year IMO

Alot of men will agree, I know I do