most worthless supplements

[milkbone]

Useless supplements? Smilax. Boron. Animal or mega or whatever pack vitamins. Weight Gainer 9000. Tribulus Terrestris. Vanadyl Sulfate. Wild Yam. 98% of Twinlab products. 99.8% of Weider crap.

 

[MFAAS]

I'm glad to hear that. Let me know if it causes any weight gain. It happened fast for me but I can't be sure the Betaine was the primary cause of that.

Its interesting the stuff seems to have several potential uses. I'm particularly interested in the anabolic potential possibly derived from having food better digested as it moves through the gut. Perhaps due to the additional hydrochloric acid, or perhaps the betaine itself. Time will tell only.
You never know what the mechanism is with all the new unstudied compounds and what nots.

Just remember "everything works for a little while". Hopefully you can get some good mileage with no adverse effects. Also remember everything we add has OTHER EFFECTS (AKA "side effects"). So for best long term success you might try to dial it down as low as possible once you get straight and stable. Just to be on the safe side. As example, and I mean I honestly have no ideal how they can sit there and say that creatine is safe long term knowing how bad it rips my guts up. But I'm not gonna poop on the party I'm glad its working for ya. Unless I am taking creatine that is..

Higher Dietary Choline and Betaine Intakes Are Associated with Better Body Composition in the Adult Population of Newfoundland, Canada - PMC

Choline is an essential nutrient and betaine is an osmolyte and methyl donor. Both are important to maintain health including adequate lipid metabolism. Supplementation of dietary choline and betaine increase muscle mass and reduce body fat in ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Betaine supplement enhances skeletal muscle differentiation in murine myoblasts via IGF-1 signaling activation - PMC

Betaine (BET) is a component of many foods, including spinach and wheat. It is an essential osmolyte and a source of methyl groups. Recent studies have hypothesized that BET might play a role in athletic performance. However, BET effects on skeletal ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Lmao dude creatine of all varieties rips my stomach up. I just get terrible, horrible gas and bloating.

I am planning to do an appointment with my doctor about the issue and see what they think. I'm really just curious to hear their thoughts. It seems like the primary medical condition associated here is hypochlorydia, with the "Airway reflux" being a secondary condition.

It says on webmd (not the most reliable source, but better than the alternatives which are mostly all blogs) that your doctor may prescribe Betaine HCl to restore stomach pH.

I'd like to get a stomach acid pH test, then if I could get the Betaine via prescription and have it go through insurance and a spending account that'd be really nice.

Regardless, thank you so much my man. This last bulk has been particularly awful. I've been struggling so much to eat meals on time. My alarm goes off to eat my next meal and I'm like..fuck I am still burping up the last one. It is awful. I really can't thank you enough. Ima send you a PM here in a minute.

 

[valuum]

lol I remember in high school all the guys said it was the thing then some said once you come off you will lose your gains, like its AAS

Dude people in prison are retarded about that shit. “Oh dat protein powdah jus gon blow you out n be fat. All dat muscle you get fuckin wit da weights go way wunce you stop workin out. Cali-sten-icks stay witchoo fo life tho.”

 

[BBC3]

Lmao dude creatine of all varieties rips my stomach up. I just get terrible, horrible gas and bloating.

I am planning to do an appointment with my doctor about the issue and see what they think. I'm really just curious to hear their thoughts. It seems like the primary medical condition associated here is hypochlorydia, with the "Airway reflux" being a secondary condition.

It says on webmd (not the most reliable source, but better than the alternatives which are mostly all blogs) that your doctor may prescribe Betaine HCl to restore stomach pH.

I'd like to get a stomach acid pH test, then if I could get the Betaine via prescription and have it go through insurance and a spending account that'd be really nice.

Regardless, thank you so much my man. This last bulk has been particularly awful. I've been struggling so much to eat meals on time. My alarm goes off to eat my next meal and I'm like..fuck I am still burping up the last one. It is awful. I really can't thank you enough. Ima send you a PM here in a minute.

SO - In short we are discussing the potential of eliminating acid reflux via INCREASE IN STOMACH ACID in order to make the food digest an move on out it I am correct? OR the added Betaine HCL (this all remains unclear)..

I'm surprised I have not heard back from you complaining of weight gain. I guess all are different indeed. I started reminding myself to take that stuff more regularly and on time (BEFORE I eat), and again. BOOM, I have packed on some weight in less than a week. Its crazy.. And I honestly can not tolerate the weight it puts on since I am trying to reduce body fat lately. Of course I would not need it If I am eating the diet I need to be eating which IS NOTHING... My increased weight gain is obviously the result of the betaine enabling my Roman type PIG OUT DIET avg6K cals..

It may be comparable or better than creatine in ways. It may also be the supp of choice when on a big steroid bulking diet.

I had to look up what you were saying. This was the quote on "WebMD"...:
"Betaine hydrochloride was previously available as an over-the-counter (OTC) medicine to increase stomach acid in people with low stomach acid. But the US FDA banned its use in OTC products due to a lack of information about whether it is safe and effective." ... ... That was surprising.

Here's link from one of the advocates on WebMD.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3946491/pdf/nihms520456.pdf

From the PDF I downloaded...:

"Abstract
Previous studies have demonstrated that increased gastric pH from the use of acid-reducing agents, such as proton-pump inhibitors or H2-receptor antagonists, can significantly impact the absorption of weakly basic drugs that exhibit pH-dependent solubility. Clinically practical strategies to mitigate this interaction have not been developed. This pilot study evaluated the extent and time course of gastric re-acidification after a solid oral dosage form of anhydrous
betaine HCl in healthy volunteers with pharmacologically-induced hypochlorhydria. Six healthy volunteers with baseline normochlorhydria (fasting gastric pH < 4) were enrolled in this single
period study. Hypochlorhydria was induced via 20 mg oral rabeprazole twice daily for four days. On the fifth day, an additional 20 mg dose of oral rabeprazole was given and gastric pH was
monitored continuously using the Heidelberg pH capsule. After gastric pH > 4 was confirmed for 15 minutes, 1500 mg of betaine HCl was given orally with 90 mL of water and gastric pH was
continuously monitored for 2 hours. Betaine HCl significantly lowered gastric pH by 4.5 (±0.5) units from 5.2 (±0.5) to 0.6 (±0.2) (P <0.001) during the 30 minute interval after administration. The onset of effect of betaine HCl was rapid, with a mean time to pH < 3 of 6.3 (±4.3) minutes. The re-acidification period was temporary with a gastric pH < 3 and < 4 lasting 73 (±33) and 77 (±30) minutes, respectively. Betaine HCl was well tolerated by all subjects. In healthy volunteers with pharmacologically-induced hypochlorhydria, betaine HCl was effective at temporarily lowering gastric pH. The rapid onset and relatively short duration of gastric pH reduction gives
betaine HCl the potential to aid the absorption of orally administered weakly basic drugs that exhibit pH-dependent solubility when administered under hypochlorhydric conditions."

You must have a good doc because none I know will know shit about it. I'm not sure if I would get my hopes up for any insight there.

Lastly I want to add was a story about what finally put me over the top about trying Betaine. I was chatting with this middle aged black woman in a gas station who was in there bragging about her weight loss over the past year to the clerk she knew. She was talking about "all she did was add a pill before each meal".. She was in decent shape for someone that never exercised and from diet alone. She could not recall the supp she had started taking that did the trick, and she could only tell me that it was something she took before every meal. She knew it was not pepsin because she had already been on that with little luck. So in a nutshell I was just hunting around because she never came back up there and left the message to tell me what it was like she was supposed to. It would not surprise me to find that betaine could be it.

I'll also point out that the score card is in from this weekend's pigout w/betaine supping. It was a big weekend eating everything from Five Guys, to CLub Sandwiches and all COMPOUNDED with pizza and fast food breakfast stuff. I got up this morning to take a marvelous shit and noted that it was one of those so clearing that you get to the end and start clearing some loose stool as minor diarrhea. Nothing problematic. Just the knowledge that YOU JUST SHIT EVERYTHING OUT as the tail end of it was just cooking in there.

That last bit comes to mind because I see that one of the original claims was that it reduces diarrhea in folks that have this as an issue. I don't think it would necc cause loose stool in a proper diet... I only pass that on because I feel like its trying to get things balanced and moving right in me. I also saw some other review by a guy talking about his doc recommending it for improper gut parasites and general things that live down there. Basically he was stating he was instructed that by the decreased PH and normalized bowel movement speed, that it would help to normalize gut conditions in terms of WHAT is supposed to be living in there.. I imagine the drawback is that it is a supp that will have to be constantly fine tuned based on current diet... Still, no way it stacks up to creatine hot mudders once they set in...

I find it interesting that the FDA opted to ban it from the OTC's. Its very possible that its too competitive with all the prescription horseshit they would have us buy...

 

[BBC3]

I only addend my last post because I am ADD'ing today and did not clear one of my points. Which is/ ARE we talking about improved digestion from the BETAINE Itself, or the HCL component of said. It really makes you step back and wonder if you compare to creatine. And then gets you wondering what is the real mode of action of creatine..? Clearly, and minimally, the increased HCL in the Creatine HCL forms dramatically increases creatine efficacy. But what is going on with Betaine, and how is it impacting the body overall? and as BETAINE...

So is it the ACID or the creatine?. Regular Mono is somewhere around PH of 4.5 I think. Creatine HCL is around 2.5 and takes a lot less to get the job done. (Keep in mind none of this speaks of MOLARITY/ acid STRENGTH as molecular density and concentration)...

So again, we have to wonder what the real mechanism of these things are in terms of action. Sure creatine levels increase with creatine use. But I also sometimes suspect I am not even absorbing food properly because the creatine hot mud shitz get so bad.

Is the tell of the tale that hydrochloric acid molecule adjuncts simply bolster the absorption of gut-fed supplements in general? Its funny with everyone wanting to "Alkaline their diet" that it appears that the opposite which is that acetic formulations appear to be best uptaked... And notably leaving you wondering if high PH foods diminish gut uptake to some degree. And perhaps worse...

WHAT is the ROLE of the Betaine in the action? I'm still not sure its not somewhat anabolic as well. You next bulk session with Betaine on board should be interesting I am thinking.. There's that other thing which is the liver data on Betaine. Which is interesting..

On a last health note and on the construct of people consuming alkaline foods and supps in an attempt to create an unfriendly environment for cancer via high PH intake. Like "SmartWater" bullshit which could very well turn out to be DUMB SUKKA WATER/ paying a premium to bring forth an ugly death possibly.... But anyways I suspect the body responds to this by only increasing acid systemically and in fact worsens general acid conditions locally throughout the body. It may turn out that to consume acids may very well be the best way to alkaline the body. As the body responds then by countering with alkalinity. I have said this before, and I don't believe I have met many old folks that did not have a diet fortified with CocaColas...

It all kinda goes back to fighting FIRE with FIRE.. As opposed to splashing an anti-acid on the situation as a temp mitigation to symptoms, but not a fix..

I'm keeping my eye on this thread to see how your progress goes as I am obviously interested. I'll especially be interested to see how the calories go in next time you bulk.

 

[MFAAS]

@BBC3 I am bulking right now so weight gain is not something I'm concerned with at all. I have noticed my weight went up, but not more than expected based off my diet and current cycle.

So my particular issue I believe is LOW stomach acid AKA a stomach pH of above 4. Then when I eat, especially large meals, they just don't digest well. The food sits in my stomach and I burp a TON for hours afterwards. Some burps would have stomach juice, only ifwouldn't feel acidic at all. It wasjust bad tasting water basically. Of course then I have a bad cough due to post nasal drip and mucus production trying toneutralize the stomach acid inmy throat, and this gave me a feeling like my lungs are full of phlegm that I can't properly cough up. It was awful and quite embarrassing when our to dinner on dates or for work, etc.

This all lined up with what I read about Airway reflux. I've had this issue at least since I was a kid when I got my tonsils taken out and had some extreme complications post surgery that put me in the ER for 2 nights on IV antibiotics. Since then I had stomach issues for the next 15 years until now when I started taking betaine. Doctors said Ihad IBS, GERD, nighttime reflux, all kinds of shit. Nothing they did helped.

I doubt my doctor will know what the hell this is, but if there's a legit test I can take to see if I actually have hypochlorydia than I want to take it.

Creatine HCL, mono, micronized... all of them fucked my stomach up giving me horrible gas. Not so much diarrhea as just awful, terrible facts. With our without food made no difference. The amount of water made no difference. I don't take creatine is just a waste especially on gear.

I think there certainly is specific chemical digestive benefit to the HCl in betaine HCl. There's also pepsin in most of them, which breaks down Proteins by itself. Normally humans make pepsin when pepsinogen meets the HCl in your stomach. So it's possible for someone with hypochlorydia that perhaps they are low on pepsin too.

I haven't had any change in stool or bowel activity.

Personally I think the whole "alkaline diet" is bullshit. Alkaline water is fucking retarded and was only created as a way to charge more for water. I do recognize some research has shown high doses of alkaline agents to benefit intense exercise by preventing lactic acidosis, but other than that I don't know why anyone would think being an "alkaline person" would be beneficial lmao. To me, for body builders or other athletes eating giant meals or consuming way more calories than necessary, I always thought it would make sense that additional stomach acid would be beneficial. The supplement industry decided to market digestive enzymes as the answer to digestion woes, perhaps due to the FDAs previous issues with the way betaine was marketed for low stomach acid.

Honestly it's crazy how little information there is about hypochlorydia. Regardless, the only advice is to take something like betaine HCL. Just like for too much acid you have to take PPIs for temporary relief. I suspect there is just nowhere near enough information about the root cause to come up with any better treatment. I'm still feeling much better taking the betaine HCL. Very little burps, my cough is pretty much gone. I find have ant discomfort in my stomach at all after meals, even big ones. I feel good and I suspect my bulking efforts will likely be more successful than ever before.

 

[Jdave]

Creatine isn't as effective as AAS or GH... it's not as risky either and it also has the benefit of storing water in skeletal tissue. Something I find helps when I'm cutting down and getting a lot of dry sprains or Charlie horses even after 4L of water
Creatine + salt tabs + magnesium/potassium - this combo for me has helped keep water balance higher in muscles. If you're on gear sure. But TRT or natty boys I think it's got a place

Digestive enzymes- not necessarily a waste. I dunno how many people can gauge the effectiveness of their digestion from what their eating by simply inferring how they feel from it. And yogurt doesn't have nearly as much gut biome boosting qualities as people may think. ...Contrary to what you're saying I think people throw them in so that don't have to worry about how much they poop or how it looks.
Also studies have shown most overweight people lack appropriate gut biome.

 

[SVENGALI]

I just want to add that the FERMENTED Citrulline (short the malate) that I am testing blew me up FAST in just 4 days of dosing. Way beyond where I normally stay at a 350mg test C protocol.

Caveat - All of it works ... ... ... For a little while. Then you simply have to lay off it. In terms of efficacy - These type supplements are PROBABALY more important to cycle than steroids /or just as - Cruise/TRT dosing aside.... I've just found over the years that its best to run the creatine, agmatine, citrulline, etc... For 6-8 weeks and then off for a while..

Never heard of this, blew you up in what way? Now I'm fascinated

 

[SVENGALI]

Creatine isn't as effective as AAS or GH... it's not as risky either and it also has the benefit of storing water in skeletal tissue. Something I find helps when I'm cutting down and getting a lot of dry sprains or Charlie horses even after 4L of water

In another thread Ive mentioned, when starting 200 TRT and 3ius of gh, the numb hands tingling at night skeepless BS was intense. I dropped the creatine and apl the se's from CTS went away. Could be anecdotal but worked regardless for me. Ive added some back in this.week and haven't had any se's yet

 

[Demondosage]

I think bcaa’s are an overhyped waste of money myself

 

[lukiss96]

Beta alanine...

 

[BBC3]

Never heard of this, blew you up in what way? Now I'm fascinated

Just saying that Citrulline has a bloat similar to creatine but a little less, however, its not quite as nasty as the creatine bloat and other creatine side effects. Yer not going to notice much if you are on a bloaty cycle already.. Keep in mind you got to get about 6 grams of Cit to get the full effect. Also noting it may work better of worse with juice I just don't recall right now I am so far from trying to get stronger right now I can't even recall. I'm on the verge of a psychotic fast real soon..

Lastly I will point out I am not sure if I mentioned that I suspected Cit of causing whelps on my back but it turned out that was alpha covid doing that shit to me all along...

 

[SVENGALI]

Just saying that Citrulline has a bloat similar to creatine but a little less, however, its not quite as nasty as the creatine bloat and other creatine side effects. Yer not going to notice much if you are on a bloaty cycle already.. Keep in mind you got to get about 6 grams of Cit to get the full effect. Also noting it may work better of worse with juice I just don't recall right now I am so far from trying to get stronger right now I can't even recall. I'm on the verge of a psychotic fast real soon..

Lastly I will point out I am not sure if I mentioned that I suspected Cit of causing whelps on my back but it turned out that was alpha covid doing that shit to me all along...

Ah ok. That makes more sense, i thought you meant like jacked af lol. As an aside,.creatine fkn killed my CTS w hgh and trt. Dropped it and wtf ya know, i could sleep w/o hands falling asleep burning waking me up.

 

[Deezznutzz]

Those testosterone booster supplements LOL. I can't remember which brand but many years ago before trt I took some and then I ran Labs.... my testosterone actually dropped 100 points and my liver enzymes were really high.

 

[SVENGALI]

Those testosterone booster supplements LOL. I can't remember which brand but many years ago before trt I took some and then I ran Labs.... my testosterone actually dropped 100 points and my liver enzymes were really high.

Man the tribulus placebo effect was huge for me yrs ago natty and then now I'm like wtff now that Ive hit trt even. Can't wait to see wtf 500 is like whei cut down more

 

[BBC3]

Ah ok. That makes more sense, i thought you meant like jacked af lol. As an aside,.creatine fkn killed my CTS w hgh and trt. Dropped it and wtf ya know, i could sleep w/o hands falling asleep burning waking me up.

As good as it work and it becomes a MUST after 40.. I just can't even touch creating mono at my age now or I will be shitting hot mud down my leg in 4 days flat just trying to piss. LOL I do ok with a gram or two of the dryed out stuff.. HCL I think it is. GOT TO BE CAPPED....

 

[BBC3]

Beta alanine...

Beta alanine is a great anti-oxidant and super for eye health as it is a precursor for the metabolism and creation of CARNOSINE which is paramount to eye health... But its some all around good shit that everyone should take daily..

Mostly what I find in the gym is better endurance with less pain during workout and after. Its very subtle but somewhat effective..

Its sad but a lot of great supps like this get omitted because of the lack of slap you in the face effects. And there's no side effects at all with it which ironically why it goes under the radar so fast with most. I can't even remember to take it myself...

 

[lukiss96]

Beta alanine is a great anti-oxidant and super for eye health as it is a precursor for the metabolism and creation of CARNOSINE which is paramount to eye health... But its some all around good shit that everyone should take daily..

Mostly what I find in the gym is better endurance with less pain during workout and after. Its very subtle but somewhat effective..

Its sad but a lot of great supps like this get omitted because of the lack of slap you in the face effects. And there's no side effects at all with it which ironically why it goes under the radar so fast with most. I can't even remember to take it myself...

Well, I didn't know that. Interesting info man.
As for performance gains I didn't notice anything. What annoys me the most is that itching/tingling...

 

[lukiss96]

Beta alanine is a great anti-oxidant and super for eye health as it is a precursor for the metabolism and creation of CARNOSINE which is paramount to eye health... But its some all around good shit that everyone should take daily..

Mostly what I find in the gym is better endurance with less pain during workout and after. Its very subtle but somewhat effective..

Its sad but a lot of great supps like this get omitted because of the lack of slap you in the face effects. And there's no side effects at all with it which ironically why it goes under the radar so fast with most. I can't even remember to take it myself...

Well, I didn't know that. Interesting info man.
As for performance gains I didn't notice anything. What annoys me the most is that itching/tingling pain in the ass...

 

[razter]

Hey man,

I wanted to tell you that you LITERALLY have changed my life for the better.

For fucking 15+ years I have struggled with chronic cough and post nasal drip. I went to multiple gastroenterologists, I went to an ENT and had the scope up the nose and down the throat and got to watch my vocal chords in slow motion. Nothing helped.

The GI doc did an endoscopy and says you must have GERD. He wanted to put me on fucking Omeprazole and even 15 years ago I said, "No thank you, SIR, I don't want those side effects." (Long-term PPI use was associated with twice the risk of total CVD and HF compared with nonusers. Our findings are in concordance with other research and suggest another reason to be cautious of PPI overuse and there's also conflicting evidence regarding neurological issues.)

The ENT did the scope and said everything looks totally fine, so we need to consider this may be partially habitual. Maybe a habit was formed after your tonsillectomy. In my mind I'm thinking...no way man this isn't mental, but I try to be open minded. It doesn't help at all.

Then random internet guy on a steroid forum "BBC3" says "I take Betaine HCl". One of the first Amazon reviews I see said that they have "Airway Reflux" and that this cured it. I google that and immediately see it matches my issues to a T. Fucking EXACTLY matches every symptom and feeling I get. After 15 goddamn years of coughing like an asshole after meals for a good 30 minutes, coughing while running, being exposed to cold air. All kinds of stuff triggered it. I ordered it and got the fastest shipping.

It got here and literally by the second day of using it I am not coughing. I eat a big meal (I used to cough even after small meals of just 500-600 calories) and I am not coughing. I went outside in the cold air and coughed maybe twice. I am no longer waking up in the middle of the night with a throat full of phlegm, desperate to clear my throat, hoping my coughing doesn't wake up the girlfriend. It was so embarrassing back when I was dating. Any time I ate, especially spicy or fatty foods, my throat would fill up with phlegm drip. I used to go to the bathroom to cough when I was on dates because obviously nobody wants to be hacking up a storm on a date like "this is normal, if you go out with me you'll get used to it..." If I ate a big meal it would feel like it was just sitting in my stomach for hours. I would burp constantly, which releases the stomach acid vapors into the throat and some gets into your airway which is highly sensitive. Then the cycle of coughing begins...

So thank you. Like fucking christ all the money I spent on GI docs and the fucking endoscopy and insurance companies should be clawed back and sent straight to you lol. I cannot fucking believe that doctors who are supposed to specialize in this shit don't even know Airway Reflux exists.

You made a massive positive impact in my life simply by sharing this supplement with me. You never know what is going to help someone else. The human body is so fucking weird and complex and fucked up, not to mention the mind is even weirder and more fucked up lol. I am still just in awe that this simple supplement has fixed this issue I've had for so long. I have to take 2 before each meal and that's it--no coughing at all. No acid reflux anymore either (I used to get acid reflux before bed sometimes, hasn't happened since I started taking this supp). It's incredible. You rock, man!

How is this going for you? Are you still on the Betaine HCL? Are your cough and post nasal drip still gone? I’m in the same boat. Nothing I’ve been given has gotten rid of it.