Jintani Labs Mid Cycle Bloods

[jp4355]

The problem is, the study you posted doesn't prove your point.

It most certainly does.
It says the Study Patients were given the Exact same Dosage of Test C.
And yet there was a Wide Variance in the amounts or Circulating Androgen Levels.

Androgen Levels ~ means the amounts of Male Sex Hormone ~ Testosterone.
Now do you understand.............................. JP

an·dro·gen
ˈandrəjən/
noun
BIOCHEMISTRY

1. a male sex hormone, such as testosterone.

 

[rugerjitsu]

It most certainly does.
It says the Study Patients were given the Exact same Dosage of Test C.
And yet there was a Wide Variance in the amounts or Circulating Androgen Levels.

Androgen Levels ~ means the amounts of Male Sex Hormone ~ Testosterone.
Now do you understand.............................. JP

an·dro·gen
ˈandrəjən/
noun
BIOCHEMISTRY

1. a male sex hormone, such as testosterone.

And yet it says NOTHING about their natural levels. Reading comprehension is a bitch.

Your point is that people will yield different results from the same dosages of medicine...which I wouldn't argue, cause I agree.

 

[tenpoundsleft]

Am I missing something? This doesn't prove anything from what I can see. It just says there's wide variations in the totals between hypogonadal individuals. It says nothing about what there natural test levels were before the study.

I don't see how it's simple math either. Both men's natural testosterone production will be suppressed by adding the synthetic. Since natural test is being replaced with ythetic, both men you described would have 500 mg of test in their system. It isn't in addition to there natural test level.

Look I could be wrong, but what you're saying and what your posting as evidence is not proving your point.

Yep +1

Seems like some on this thread are arguing against shutdown... Whatever natty production is you have will quickly be gonzo, and the 300 guy and the 900 guy (natty numbers) will have the same total test results (all other factors equal of course).

Or have I royally misunderstood how the endocrine system works in this area?

I'm a TRT user so PCT isn't anything I do, but it looks like PCT is unnecessary since natural production simply continues anyway.... ;-)

 

[jp4355]

And yet it says NOTHING about their natural levels. Reading comprehension is a bitch.

Your point is that people will yield different results from the same dosages of medicine...which I wouldn't argue, cause I agree.

Common Sense is going to tell you that Everyone's Natural Levels are going to be Different.
If not, their wouldn't be Reference Ranges for Total Test, what would be the point.

It would all be like what Mudbutt was saying.
Take x number of Guys, give them the Same amount of Test from the same Company, and they will all test the same for Total Test.
Now That's Total Nonsense............................... JP

TTFB - Clinical: Testosterone, Total, Bioavailable, and Free, Serum

 

[jp4355]

Yep +1

Seems like some on this thread are arguing against shutdown... Whatever natty production is you have will quickly be gonzo, and the 300 guy and the 900 guy (natty numbers) will have the same total test results (all other factors equal of course).

Or have I royally misunderstood how the endocrine system works in this area?

I'm a TRT user so PCT isn't anything I do, but it looks like PCT is unnecessary since natural production simply continues anyway.... ;-)

OK, if I take you and someone else, both getting the same amount of TRT Test per week, and the same maker of the test.
You are both going to show different Total Test Levels............................... JP
P.S.
While it's true that you're going to Shutdown, no matter if you are TRT or on a regular Cycle, you will still start at your Natty Level.
So if you're higher Natty, you will test Higher after being On-cycle or TRT.
If not, again, there would be No Need for a Reference Range for Total Test, and your Doctor wouldn't need to do any Bloodwork.
Cause X amount of Mgs., would yield x amount of Total Test.

 

[tenpoundsleft]

OK, if I take you and someone else, both getting the same amount of TRT Test per week, and the same maker of the test.
You are both going to show different Total Test Levels............................... JP
P.S.
While it's true that you're going to Shutdown, no matter if you are TRT or on a regular Cycle, you will still start at your Natty Level.
So if you're higher Natty, you will test Higher after being On-cycle or TRT.
If not, again, there would be No Need for a Reference Range for Total Test, and your Doctor wouldn't need to do any Bloodwork.
Cause X amount of Mgs., would yield x amount of Total Test.

Nope

The reason for blood work is that we metabolize differently. Aromatization is also individual.

Sure, for nonTRT users, the levels during the first couple weeks will be different, but then shutdown kicks in and the 300 and the 900 guy have the same total test. (Assuming all other factors equal)

Let's call in Doc @Docd187123 to set you straight.

 

[Docd187123]

Nope

The reason for blood work is that we metabolize differently. Aromatization is also individual.

Sure, for nonTRT users, the levels during the first couple weeks will be different, but then shutdown kicks in and the 300 and the 900 guy have the same total test. (Assuming all other factors equal)

Let's call in Doc @Docd187123 to set you straight.

Endogenous production doesn't matter after you've been on for a few weeks. You're correct.

 

[jp4355]

Endogenous production doesn't matter after you've been on for a few weeks. You're correct.

So why does everyone Post different Total Tests on Lab work.
And did you read the Report on Test C that I posted.

Answer that, with some Data to back you up, like I did.......................... JP

 

[tenpoundsleft]

So why does everyone Post different Total Tests on Lab work.
And did you read the Report on Test C that I posted.

Answer that, with some Data to back you up, like I did.......................... JP

Because of different actual dose strength differences, and highly different metabolization. Some guys need 150mg of some Test where others need only 100mg to get the same total. Has nothing to do with your natty levels. This is after being on TRT so whatever you had natty is long gone.

 

[Docd187123]

So why does everyone Post different Total Tests on Lab work.

Bc everyone doesn't use the same injection frequency. Bc everyone guys gear from different sources and you don't know it each one is dosed accurately or precisely. Bc everyone has different amounts of blood in their body. Bc everyone injects in different muscles or even sub q. Bc there is one specific enzyme which is primarily responsible for the metabolism of testosterone and it depends on genetic factors. I could list many more reasons but those should suffice.

And did you read the Report on Test C that I posted.

Answer that, with some Data to back you up, like I did.......................... JP

I did read it. Unfortunately it says absolutely nothing to back up your statement in the least. It's like you saying apples are healthy for you but then posting something that says apples can be green, yellow, or red....completely off topic.


Edit* I should add that once you start using exogenous testosterone your natural productions goes down the tube. The body can still make EXTREMELY SMALL/TRACE amounts but it's nothing significant. Just look at your LH levels while on TRT/cruise/blast for evidence.

 

[mudbutt22]

Thanks for pointing the condescending dipshit straight doc. I was hoping you'd chime in. I was sick of arguing with him.

 

[jp4355]

Bc everyone doesn't use the same injection frequency. Bc everyone guys gear from different sources and you don't know it each one is dosed accurately or precisely. Bc everyone has different amounts of blood in their body. Bc everyone injects in different muscles or even sub q. Bc there is one specific enzyme which is primarily responsible for the metabolism of testosterone and it depends on genetic factors. I could list many more reasons but those should suffice.



I did read it. Unfortunately it says absolutely nothing to back up your statement in the least. It's like you saying apples are healthy for you but then posting something that says apples can be green, yellow, or red....completely off topic.





Edit* I should add that once you start using exogenous testosterone your natural productions goes down the tube. The body can still make EXTREMELY SMALL/TRACE amounts but it's nothing significant. Just look at your LH levels while on TRT/cruise/blast for evidence.

Thanks for making my Point.
It's called Pharmcokinetics, and this is the precise reason for the variances.

While Natural Production does go down, the reason for different Levels if the 2 Guys are doing the same amount, of the same company, in the same Muscle, at the same day of the week.
This was my Point, although it got lost with all these guys posting.

And the one who started this Nonsense, has Not a Thing to add to the conversation.
As he didn't know what he was talking about from the get.................... JP

 

[Docd187123]

Thanks for making my Point.
It's called Pharmcokinetics, and this is the precise reason for the variances.

Yes pharmacokinetics is important obviously but there is no pharmacokinetics on endogenous production.

While Natural Production does go down, the reason for different Levels if the 2 Guys are doing the same amount, of the same company, in the same Muscle, at the same day of the week.
This was my Point, although it got lost with all these guys posting.

Incorrect if I understand your point correctly. The difference has absolutely nothing to do with natural/endogenous production.

I went back and read the abstract to the study you posted on pg 1. This still doesn't back up your statement that the wide variance is related to endogenous production. It actually explains why that would be an incorrect assumption if you use deductive reasoning.

 

[mudbutt22]

Just stop dude. You aren't making your point. Your original point was stating that natural levels of testosterone affect total testosterone when synthetic test is added. They don't. You can keep being an uneducated misinformed prick though. No skin off of my back.

 

[jp4355]

Yes pharmacokinetics is important obviously but there is no pharmacokinetics on endogenous production.



Incorrect if I understand your point correctly. The difference has absolutely nothing to do with natural/endogenous production.

I went back and read the abstract to the study you posted on pg 1. This still doesn't back up your statement that the wide variance is related to endogenous production. It actually explains why that would be an incorrect assumption if you use deductive reasoning.

Dude, this Conversation was Never Ever about Endogenous Production.
It was about how different starting levels will yield different outcomes.

I was commenting on a Guys Total Test Bloodwork, and asked if he had done a Pre-Cycle Bloodwork, then he would have a Starting Point to indicate if his Gear was GTG.

And Butthead, said it didn't matter, that wherever you started from, you would always have the same Outcome.
And Pharmcokinetics makes that Impossible........................... JP

 

[rugerjitsu]

Dude, this Conversation was Never Ever about Endogenous Production.
It was about how different starting levels will yield different outcomes.

I was commenting on a Guys Total Test Bloodwork, and asked if he had done a Pre-Cycle Bloodwork, then he would have a Starting Point to indicate if his Gear was GTG.

And Butthead, said it didn't matter, that wherever you started from, you would always have the same Outcome.
And Pharmcokinetics makes that Impossible........................... JP

The importance of pre cycle bloods is after your cycle...to find out if you have fully recovered. Otherwise, you get post cycle bloods and what do you have to compare them with??

Starting point means shit once you've introduced synthetic hormones into your body...

 

[frankonya]

I got a 90 natural test level and get better results on synthetic than my buddy who has 900.

Does that help your point jp

 

[Docd187123]

Dude, this Conversation was Never Ever about Endogenous Production.
It was about how different starting levels will yield different outcomes.

I was commenting on a Guys Total Test Bloodwork, and asked if he had done a Pre-Cycle Bloodwork, then he would have a Starting Point to indicate if his Gear was GTG.

And Butthead, said it didn't matter, that wherever you started from, you would always have the same Outcome.
And Pharmcokinetics makes that Impossible........................... JP

Butthead then was correct. Different pre cycle levels do not affect on cycle levels.

Edit* sorry MudButt but I mean butthead with love

 

[tenpoundsleft]

Dude, this Conversation was Never Ever about Endogenous Production.
It was about how different starting levels will yield different outcomes.

I was commenting on a Guys Total Test Bloodwork, and asked if he had done a Pre-Cycle Bloodwork, then he would have a Starting Point to indicate if his Gear was GTG.

And Butthead, said it didn't matter, that wherever you started from, you would always have the same Outcome.
And Pharmcokinetics makes that Impossible........................... JP

Damn - you just don't give up. You're as stubborn as a liberal facing a failed government program - double down!

"this Conversation was Never Ever about Endogenous Production.
It was about how different starting levels will yield different outcomes."

Endogenous production IS your starting point !!!!!
(assuming you're natty)

And since endogenous production shuts down - after, say 2 weeks, the 300 guy and the 900 guy WILL have the SAME total test levels after that. Assuming all else is equal.

Unless you just run 1-2 week mini-mini "cycles" of course.

Put a fork in it, it's DONE!

 

[mudbutt22]

Maybe jp will listen to someone with a medical degree. Care to chime in @Dr JIM?