Is the reverse true?

[Deleted member 123722]

Whipped cream cheese, cinnamon toast crunch, and sun chips?

It doesn't take a magician to know what is wrong here.

Cinnamon toast crunch is my pre-workout meal. No problem eating those kinds of carbs for pre at all.

Nothing wrong with a bit of cream cheese either.

The sun chips are to get extra calories, but apparently not a good idea lol. I don't need to eat them.

 

[Deleted member 123722]

You say yourself here you’re choosing to eat junk instead of more clean food.

That’s the end of the conversation: choice.

Yea, I wanted to be more "loose" with my bulk, but if you guys really think that a "clean bulk" with the same calories would make a huge difference, I can easily eliminate them. I don't NEED them lol.

I'm just trying to understand how a surplus whether "clean" or a bit "dirty" of X amount of calories wouldn't equal the same amount of fat gain, if the reverse is true in a deficit, when my macros are all being hit: You see my protein is at 300, my carbs at 491, and fats are 164.

I always assumed a dirty bulk was someone eating absolute shit for every meal, like Mc Donald's, pizza and protein shakes, things like that. My base meals are solid, I just add some crap on top.

If I lowered the fats, I could jack up the carbs much higher. And if that's what I do, how would they not also just turn into fat when not utilized?

That's my main question.

 

[jJjburton]

Yea, I wanted to be more "loose" with my bulk, but if you guys really think that a "clean bulk" with the same calories would make a huge difference, I can easily eliminate them. I don't NEED them lol.

I'm just trying to understand how a surplus whether "clean" or a bit "dirty" of X amount of calories wouldn't equal the same amount of fat gain, if the reverse is true in a deficit, when my macros are all being hit: You see my protein is at 300, my carbs at 491, and fats are 164.

I always assumed a dirty bulk was someone eating absolute shit for every meal, like Mc Donald's, pizza and protein shakes, things like that. My base meals are solid, I just add some crap on top.

If I lowered the fats, I could jack up the carbs much higher. And if that's what I do, how would they not also just turn into fat when not utilized?

That's my main question.

So i eat the way your eating but when I run high AAS.

I am pretty much spot on same. But the amount of fats is alot. And i will have to be fixing this area myself. 164 grams fats is just alot.

You just get fat faster. If you took 64 grams of fats making the protein 350 and rest in carb catergorie. There are ways of timing carbs to really utilize then more productively.

The way you are eating is not the most “Healthy” but it can be used at times, and without eating more dirty, I know for myself, i would get so sick of some foods, and would be short of my cals.

You would probably get better results eating just meat, carb source rice/potatoes, healthy fats. But its extremely disciplined.

 

[Deleted member 123722]

So i eat the way your eating but when I run high AAS.

I am pretty much spot on same. But the amount of fats is alot. And i will have to be fixing this area myself. 164 grams fats is just alot.

You just get fat faster. If you took 64 grams of fats making the protein 350 and rest in carb catergorie. There are ways of timing carbs to really utilize then more productively.

The way you are eating is not the most “Healthy” but it can be used at times, and without eating more dirty, I know for myself, i would get so sick of some foods, and would be short of my cals.

You would probably get better results eating just meat, carb source rice/potatoes, healthy fats. But its extremely disciplined.

I just don't get why I'm hungry after my steak meals; that's why the Sun Chips are there. And my last meal's carbs only come from the chicken nuggets; despite them being high in fat and carbs, I'm still hungry afterwards. IDK why though.

My last bulk on 1g of deca only, it was hard for me to get down 4200 cals, but this time it's too easy. My PWO egg/turkey/rice meal is the most filling meal.

But I'll get rid of the crap and just add cleaner carbs; and on occasion if I want to enjoy some crap, I will. Again, I'm not a competitor so I don't have to be super strict ALL the time.

I probably also shouldn't be 1k calories over, but my buddy Gabe wanted me to hit 300p 500carb and ~120 fat

 

[Deleted member 123722]

If I had saw this before, I wouldn't have posted lol.


View: https://youtu.be/bvM0WR-NXEA

 

[Jin23]

I just don't get why I'm hungry after my steak meals; that's why the Sun Chips are there. And my last meal's carbs only come from the chicken nuggets; despite them being high in fat and carbs, I'm still hungry afterwards. IDK why though.

My last bulk on 1g of deca only, it was hard for me to get down 4200 cals, but this time it's too easy. My PWO egg/turkey/rice meal is the most filling meal.

But I'll get rid of the crap and just add cleaner carbs; and on occasion if I want to enjoy some crap, I will. Again, I'm not a competitor so I don't have to be super strict ALL the time.

I probably also shouldn't be 1k calories over, but my buddy Gabe wanted me to hit 300p 500carb and ~120 fat

Didn't you just come off a long cycle? And had a thread about not wanting to come off and being addicted or something?

Imo dirty bulking is stupid af. You just get needlessly fat and remember, the more time you need to spend cutting, in a given years time, the less time you are building muscle, which means; less growth.

You are also in a much less healthy environment being so fat + being on large dosages of aas, which you probably don't need. I mean, if you follow Mike I. then you should be smart enough to know that. It's definitely better to cut down and do a steady bulk, especially if 5iu's of GH is in play. But at least you're keeping it far away from food, so that's a plus.

I'd say meal timing and meal composition is important. Keeping high carb meals with low fats pre and post workout and other meals low carb and higer fat and high protein, and maybe a meal or two just protein and fat. Not to forget, to have some fasting windows in between, where you actually let yourself get hungry and stay being hungry before you eat. Keeping insulin elevated all the time through the day will lead to insulin resistance, and given your bf% and the fact that you're using 5iu's isn't helping you either.

I mean, the stuff you are doing is just so far from healthy, that the question arises; why do it ... Is the feeling of being ON so helpful with your ptsd and self image and what not?

 

[lukiss96]

@Jin23 very wise words man, I agree 100%

Problem is guys usually take it as an attack not advice.

 

[Jin23]

@Jin23 very wise words man, I agree 100%

Tnx, but you know, one purpose of such boards is harm reduction, so ... if we don't call out each other on bullshit - that we ourselves are blind to - then we are just enabling addict/non healthy behavior.

Problem is guys usually take it as an attack not advice.

Yeah, especially this guy, we've had a few occasions where he wasn't really listening and was just looking for confirmation of his own beliefs. He wanted a discourse, but his way of doing it was to confrontational.

Primo: risk-reward profile... is it 'conspicuous consumption' or does it really only 'shine' with long-term use?

yes, I've posted a few of his videos, and another guy named Big Paul a few times... but that's it lol. So are you saying the 1g of Deca did all that damage? The Primo vs Deca bloodwork is night and day, that's all I'm saying. I felt great on Deca only...I should have never added the drol, and...

thinksteroids.com

I don't want to get off

I will admit that logically I should get off soon, go back to a "TRT" dose, but I won't; my TRT dose is 200mg of cyp, which isn't even TRT, and puts me over 1000. I've been on for a while now; taking only a month or so between cycles, since literally last year, when I did my 1 gram of Deca only...

thinksteroids.com

Idk, this discussion about dirty bulking is fine per-se, but are we forgetting what this guy is doing? Do we not care rly? A ptsd, adhd like, unstable personality type disorder, aas abuser going on another 400/400/400 + 5iu's blast, ... I mean, I'm not going to spend time and energy on this, but I would just like to call some attention to it, which is all that this is and nothing more. He is harming him self, both physically and mentally. But that's all from me on this point, ... Wish all the best to op.

 

[Deleted member 123722]

Didn't you just come off a long cycle? And had a thread about not wanting to come off and being addicted or something?

Imo dirty bulking is stupid af. You just get needlessly fat and remember, the more time you need to spend cutting, in a given years time, the less time you are building muscle, which means; less growth.

You are also in a much less healthy environment being so fat + being on large dosages of aas, which you probably don't need. I mean, if you follow Mike I. then you should be smart enough to know that. It's definitely better to cut down and do a steady bulk, especially if 5iu's of GH is in play. But at least you're keeping it far away from food, so that's a plus.

I'd say meal timing and meal composition is important. Keeping high carb meals with low fats pre and post workout and other meals low carb and higer fat and high protein, and maybe a meal or two just protein and fat. Not to forget, to have some fasting windows in between, where you actually let yourself get hungry and stay being hungry before you eat. Keeping insulin elevated all the time through the day will lead to insulin resistance, and given your bf% and the fact that you're using 5iu's isn't helping you either.

I mean, the stuff you are doing is just so far from healthy, that the question arises; why do it ... Is the feeling of being ON so helpful with your ptsd and self image and what not?

Thing is, according to even Dr. Mike's video, I'm not "dirty bulking" at all, because even he says some junk is okay. 90% of my foods are whole foods; it's not like I'm eating pizzas, burger king, Ice cream and all that.

Jin, your efforts are not in vain; I just have a goal set and I will get there. I'm not going to die before this happens, nor do I believe I'm destroying my health after one year of perma-blasting for the first time in my life. There are people who've abused higher dosages for decades; not saying it's right, nor does it justify this retarded use of mine, but it is only temporary and I have made that decision to push through. I'm not getting any younger and I want to get there.

You must have missed what I wrote before:



What I need to do is just stop posting on here. I started to post here and make logs to keep accountability, but there's just too many opinions flying around. My friend Gabe is a coach and bodybuilder, and I need to just trust him. He is going off what I told him; he knows me and has seen me in person. And no, he doesn't agree with the Sun Chips either lol, and I spoke to him about it and he gave me things to do instead.

People on here are giving their opinion based on pictures, throwing around estimates of BF%, sharing their opinions on what should or shouldn't be done, and even making assumptions about my mental health lol; I'm just going to get in my own way listening to anyone but him.

I told him my goals, and based on them, he is working within a TIME CONSTRAINT so it's all about getting there as fast as possible, in these conditions. So far he hasn't been wrong, while others say the opposite.

So yea I'm done posting about me on this forum.

 

[God&Gainz]

I just don't get why I'm hungry after my steak meals; that's why the Sun Chips are there. And my last meal's carbs only come from the chicken nuggets; despite them being high in fat and carbs, I'm still hungry afterwards. IDK why though.

Did you think you would be able to cut to single digit bodyfat without feeling hungry and depleted?

Why are you so scared of being hungry?

This is why so few actually make it to the next level and achieve an elite physique. It is a mental game going to war with your mind where most are exposed. Suffering is what makes it worth it.

 

[Jin23]

Oh, I wanted to comment on that. Getting hungry quickly after eating, like 30m after, can be post prandial reactive hypoglycemia. @falseprophet09 this could indicate an already existing insulin resistance, as that happens when the body secretes to much insulin in response to ingested food.

 

[Deleted member 123722]

Did you think you would be able to cut to single digit bodyfat without feeling hungry and depleted?

Why are you so scared of being hungry?

This is why so few actually make it to the next level and achieve an elite physique. It is a mental game going to war with your mind where most are exposed. Suffering is what makes it worth it.

Here I'm talking about why I'm getting hungry in a damn SURPLUS lol. My friend answered it for me; I just spoke to him via text.

After this bulk is over, I will do a proper cut without taking T3 at all. Last time I abused t3 the entire time and think it depleted me and created a subtle diet fatigue faster than usually. I was also training too much. I won't repeat these same mistakes again.

I'm aware of what it takes to get to an "elite" physique, but all I want to achieve is a good-looking 10-12% bf of a beach bod. Shit, if I gain a ton of muscle this bulk, I could probably have great abs at 15%. I'm not trying to be a pro-bodybuilder or competitor.

 

[JesterBOB]

Oh, I wanted to comment on that. Getting hungry quickly after eating, like 30m after, can be post prandial reactive hypoglycemia. @falseprophet09 this could indicate an already existing insulin resistance, as that happens when the body secretes to much insulin in response to ingested food.

From experience, the main thing is to wait out this time, and the feeling of hunger passes and it is replaced by a feeling of satiety.

 

[Para_33]

Oh, I wanted to comment on that. Getting hungry quickly after eating, like 30m after, can be post prandial reactive hypoglycemia. @falseprophet09 this could indicate an already existing insulin resistance, as that happens when the body secretes to much insulin in response to ingested food.

I noticed this hunger rebound start happening to me starting at around 9 weeks of a -600 deficit cut ( thats and average including refeeds). However I’m also taking 10-13iu Lantus daily, I’m kinda thinking now that this might be having the effect of amplifying. This is my first prep type cut after my first ever offseason/growing phase, so I don’t have tons of experience knowing my body over multiple preps, could this be normal that now 9 weeks in and below 10% that the hunger rebound is to be expected, or could the Lantus make this significantly worse?

It’s still manageable at this point, but it makes sense to just drop the Lantus at this point since I’m fairly close to the finish line. I have striations vascularity everywhere except my Gutes, not so much in my quads either but they still aren’t developed to the extent of the rest of my body at this point and I feel they also lost a bit of size from the fact I was running on the road for cardio the majority of this and got planar facitus which is making me skip legs most of the days I run. I’ve since joined a gym and am using the elliptical now. So much better.

 

[Para_33]

Did you think you would be able to cut to single digit bodyfat without feeling hungry and depleted?

Why are you so scared of being hungry?

This is why so few actually make it to the next level and achieve an elite physique. It is a mental game going to war with your mind where most are exposed. Suffering is what makes it worth it.

I’m getting to this point as well, during the day, it’s whatever, sucks but it’s ok, it just really starts to suck when I can’t sleep because I’m so
Hungry lol. I’m pushing through though. If anything because I hear them post prep rebound gains are sick.

 

[Jin23]

I noticed this hunger rebound start happening to me starting at around 9 weeks of a -600 deficit cut ( thats and average including refeeds). However I’m also taking 10-13iu Lantus daily, I’m kinda thinking now that this might be having the effect of amplifying. This is my first prep type cut after my first ever offseason/growing phase, so I don’t have tons of experience knowing my body over multiple preps, could this be normal that now 9 weeks in and below 10% that the hunger rebound is to be expected, or could the Lantus make this significantly worse?

It’s still manageable at this point, but it makes sense to just drop the Lantus at this point since I’m fairly close to the finish line. I have striations vascularity everywhere except my Gutes, not so much in my quads either but they still aren’t developed to the extent of the rest of my body at this point and I feel they also lost a bit of size from the fact I was running on the road for cardio the majority of this and got planar facitus which is making me skip legs most of the days I run. I’ve since joined a gym and am using the elliptical now. So much better.

If it's a feeling of hypoglycemia, then yes, off course. But I'm no expert on exogenous insulin use, so unfortunately, can't really be much of a help here. The fact that insulin will contribute to an even lower fasting BG however, should be obvious, no?

 

[God&Gainz]

I’m getting to this point as well, during the day, it’s whatever, sucks but it’s ok, it just really starts to suck when I can’t sleep because I’m so
Hungry lol. I’m pushing through though. If anything because I hear them post prep rebound gains are sick.

Love it bro. Stick with it. Fighting that impulse is what builds champions.

At night I found a little bit of honey helps me sleep. The sugar and relaxing properties buy you a couple hours.

 

[JesterBOB]

Love it bro. Stick with it. Fighting that impulse is what builds champions.

At night I found a little bit of honey helps me sleep. The sugar and relaxing properties buy you a couple hours.

Carbohydrates generally work wonders. I usually try to go with vegetables) but it doesn't always work out.

 

[AlwaysHungry]

Can you pass the PT test ? If not you're not healthy IMO/IME.
We as bodybuilders we are very unhealthy idc if a 260lb monster shows me good labs that doesn't make him healthy.
Steroids and overeating takes a huge tool on our health and especially heart and endurance.
If you don't care about competing or be a hard-core bodybuilder , watch your health reconsider your diet your training your aas regiment.
Steroids can help you achieve so much I bet that if you want you can be huge lean healthy and superman in terms of stamina endurance ! All that with minimum dosage.

 

[JesterBOB]

Undoubtedly, we have one health and we need to cherish and follow it. No good results are worth health. You usually realize this late, when there is already a problem.