Govertical19
New Member
So when I combine my sterile water and my BA the water is cloudy. Could this be the problem? Not sure why the water and ba are separating
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
Injectable Glutathione Recipe
- Thread starter Luka.Halotestin
- Start date
sinistral
Member
Yeah, it could be the problem. It shouldn't do that.
Govertical19
New Member
Yes, I figured it out. I was making the BA Water incorrectly. Another question though the OP post said if it goes over 6 1/2 it oxidizes or something so if the pH is eight, does that mean it’s no good I made one with a pH of six and one with eight.
sinistral
Member
I'm not sure why the one with pH 8 didn't turn red on you. Usually when it oxidizes it turns red. But oxidized glutathione is useless so I'd say the 8 is no good.
Glutathione pH behavior: with vs. without L-Carnitine
After experimenting and researching (with help from ChatGPT and pharmaceutical references), here’s what I’ve found:
When glutathione (GSH, reduced form) is dissolved in bacteriostatic water alone, the solution naturally has a slightly acidic pH, usually around 4.5 to 5.5, depending on concentration.
If you don’t buffer it, that low pH is stable for the molecule, but not ideal for injection (may sting, cause local irritation).
If you try to raise the pH with NaOH or sodium bicarbonate, you must be extremely careful: if the pH goes above ~6.5, glutathione rapidly oxidizes (turns pink or brown), especially if air or light is present.
However, when you add L-Carnitine to the glutathione solution:
The carnitine naturally raises and buffers the pH to around 6.8–7.0
You no longer need to use any base or buffer
Most importantly, the glutathione remains stable even above pH 6.5, without oxidizing
→ This effect seems to come from the protective chemical environment created by carnitine in solution
So in short, L-Carnitine not only helps adjust the pH, but it also seems to protect glutathione from oxidation, even in a slightly more basic range.
You get a clear, stable, and comfortable-to-inject solution — no burning, no pink color, no degradation.
---
Sources:
ChatGPT technical input (pharmaceutical chemistry model)
Peer-reviewed data on glutathione oxidation, solubility, and pH thresholds
After experimenting and researching (with help from ChatGPT and pharmaceutical references), here’s what I’ve found:
When glutathione (GSH, reduced form) is dissolved in bacteriostatic water alone, the solution naturally has a slightly acidic pH, usually around 4.5 to 5.5, depending on concentration.
If you don’t buffer it, that low pH is stable for the molecule, but not ideal for injection (may sting, cause local irritation).
If you try to raise the pH with NaOH or sodium bicarbonate, you must be extremely careful: if the pH goes above ~6.5, glutathione rapidly oxidizes (turns pink or brown), especially if air or light is present.
However, when you add L-Carnitine to the glutathione solution:
The carnitine naturally raises and buffers the pH to around 6.8–7.0
You no longer need to use any base or buffer
Most importantly, the glutathione remains stable even above pH 6.5, without oxidizing
→ This effect seems to come from the protective chemical environment created by carnitine in solution
So in short, L-Carnitine not only helps adjust the pH, but it also seems to protect glutathione from oxidation, even in a slightly more basic range.
You get a clear, stable, and comfortable-to-inject solution — no burning, no pink color, no degradation.
---
Sources:
ChatGPT technical input (pharmaceutical chemistry model)
Peer-reviewed data on glutathione oxidation, solubility, and pH thresholds
Kiraa710
Member
What kind of concentrations ?
I was going to brew a GAC blend tomorrow, should I try a GGAC lol
Govertical19
New Member
That’s awesome can you share the recipe? I inject carnitine everyday would make it with everything make it easier.
I haven’t run the experiment yet, but I’m planning to soon.
I’ll be mixing 600 mg/mL of L-Carnitine base with 400 mg/mL of reduced glutathione in the same vial.
From what I’ve seen and read, the final pH should land somewhere around 6.8–7.0, which is close to physiological and ideal for injection.
I know glutathione usually shouldn’t go above 200–250 mg/mL on its own — otherwise it tends to oxidize or become unstable.
But with L-Carnitine in the mix, it seems to buffer the pH naturally and protect the glutathione, even at higher concentrations.
I’ll update when I’ve tested it.
I’ll be mixing 600 mg/mL of L-Carnitine base with 400 mg/mL of reduced glutathione in the same vial.
From what I’ve seen and read, the final pH should land somewhere around 6.8–7.0, which is close to physiological and ideal for injection.
I know glutathione usually shouldn’t go above 200–250 mg/mL on its own — otherwise it tends to oxidize or become unstable.
But with L-Carnitine in the mix, it seems to buffer the pH naturally and protect the glutathione, even at higher concentrations.
I’ll update when I’ve tested it.
Govertical19
New Member
Nice let us know how it comes out
sinistral
Member
Most powders have roughly 1mL displacement per gram. GSH does for sure. But I'm not sure about L-Carnitine.
I don't think you can hit a total concentration of 1g/mL. If you have 1g/mL concentration and displacement is 1mL/g that would mean 0mL BAC.
EDIT: Oh wait. Did i misread that? Are you combining the two as in say:
10 mL GSH at 400mg/mL
10 mL L-Carn at 600 mg/mL
to make
20 mL total?
LGOP528
Member
L-Carnitine Should have a displacement of 1.56 mL/g
You're totally right — I completely forgot to account for displacement.
Trying to hit 400 mg/ml of GSH + 600 mg/ml of L-Carnitine in 1 ml would be way too dense and likely undissolvable or way too viscous.
200 mg/ml for GSH and 300 mg/ml for L-Carnitine sounds like the most practical and injectable concentration.
For a 20 ml batch, that would be:
4 g of GSH (200 mg/ml × 20 ml)
6 g of L-Carnitine (300 mg/ml × 20 ml)
That gives a total of 10 g of powder, which should displace around 8 ml (assuming ~1 ml/g for GSH and ~0.8 ml/g for Carnitine). You'd then add enough solvent to bring the final volume up to 20 ml — nice and fluid.
Thanks for the reminder, I totally overlooked the displacement factor — lol.
sinistral
Member
I finally got around to checking your calculations. Let me first say that I am not a chemist either! It seems while these calculations are a bit simplified it is close enough.
I checked them by going the Molar Mass/Volume route.
Molar Mass of GSH is 307.32 g/mol
Density is 1.475 g/mL (I found a range of 1.4-1.6 but used your 1.475)
Molar Volume is 307.32 g/mol / 1.475 g/mL = 208.35 mL/mol
Displacement would then be 208.35 mL / 307.32 g = 0.678 mL/g (same as yours)
However, then I came across something called Partial Molar Volume and it all fell apart lol!! Solid state displacement is not the same as in an aqueous solution. There is added complexity due to concentration, pH, temperature and solvation effects where the volume is influenced by hydration and packing in solution.
Partial Molar Volume of GSH is about 160-170 mL/mol
Displacement would then be 165 mL / 307.32 g = 0.537 mL/g
The last time I brewed I’m pretty sure my displacement was much closer to 1mL/g than 0.537 mL/g but I will check closer next time. This is why it seems to me your calculations are pretty close.
Anyway, I just thought I’d share the product of my over-caffeinated morning.
LGOP528
Member
I would think it changes with purity.
I definitely agree it is a short hand way to find it. As you pointed out, most of the anabolics people just use 1. Most calculators use .909. I was just thinking this is a quick way to tell if the .909 or 1 assumption is acceptable for displacement. I did back check test E with this method and got .909.
I originally used dimensional analysis to work this out. When I get to work, I’ll run through it with the mL/mol. Since a mol is just 6.02E23 atoms. I am interested in how that came out with the same answer.
LGOP528
Member
@sinistral
My bad, I was in a rush this morning. From a dimensional analysis standpoint everything checks out. If you keep mol in the units the last step is
(mL/mol)/(g/mol) that is the same thing as
(mL/mol)*(mol/g)= mL/g because mol cancels out.
You are finding it based off of a molar constant.
When I divide 1 by the density, that is the same as multiplying 1 by the reciprocal of density. That is how I flipped the units. I will say your explanation is better because it is not based off of this abstract idea of dimensional analysis.
My bad, I was in a rush this morning. From a dimensional analysis standpoint everything checks out. If you keep mol in the units the last step is
(mL/mol)/(g/mol) that is the same thing as
(mL/mol)*(mol/g)= mL/g because mol cancels out.
You are finding it based off of a molar constant.
When I divide 1 by the density, that is the same as multiplying 1 by the reciprocal of density. That is how I flipped the units. I will say your explanation is better because it is not based off of this abstract idea of dimensional analysis.
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sinistral
Member
Thanks for contributing the work in the first place. This was a good thought experiment. Up until now I've been taking people's word for it...usually not a good idea.
Thinking on it more I understand why the displacement in my last brew was closer to 1mL/g. It is due to the Partial Molar Volume concept in that the more concentrated the solution the less water available for hydration and packing.
LGOP528
Member
I have learned so much from you and others on here that I am just happy that I am able to give back!
I have a crazy idea to try to make injectable chondroitin sulfate. I have everything I need to make it and if I have time this weekend, I want to try to make a batch. I’ll start a whole new thread, maybe I’ll try and start it in the next few days so everyone can save me the time and tell me how dumb of an idea it is. I would be interested in your feedback.
sinistral
Member
I'll definitely be watching for that! I've had good luck with oral glucosamine in the past.
Your recipe above definitely dissolves crystal clear without buffering it....I halved it and made 10 mil, Left it set for about 5 or 10 minutes in it is crystal clear, I'm still waiting on my pH meter to show up in the mail so I have no idea what the pH turned out as but I'm curious I think you're onto something It would be cool if you posted your results trying it as well
