??HGH??

[Dr JIM]

Oh one more thing.

If your sincere about "trying GH" do it correctly and use pharm grade, because then and only then will you be able to judge what it is capable of achieving for YOU.

And what's even more important is that experience will provide the user with a baseline for comparing the genuine article with "generic" GH and all the side effects that come with generic GH . . . . . . . ONLY THEN WILL YOU KNOW and UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE between Ph grade AND generic GH.

Regs
JIM

 

[Skull]

NO!
In spite of GH being an anabolic agent it's androgenic effects are very limited especially compared to AAS, testosterone in particular.

Consequently if your using GH to enhance you sexual drive your in for a huge disappointment and this is particularly true if one is considering GH as a TRT substitute……… BAD IDEA

This GH thing has been so grossly exaggerated it's utterly radiculous.

Considering the cost and the high probability of being scammed, its just not the type of PED most people on Meso should be using……..Oh I know slam away but I've seen similar "get big fast" panaceas come and go and unless an individual is truly interested in the pro circuit and HAVE ALREADY BEEN involved in the competitive aspect of BB and lifting they are wasting their time and money on GH IMO!

GH should be the LAST PED to add that list of PEDs which already have been maximized AND everything else is perfected such as technique, diet, lifting partners, schedules,

NO!
In spite of GH being an anabolic agent it's androgenic effects are very limited especially compared to AAS, testosterone in particular.

Consequently if your using GH to enhance you sexual drive your in for a huge disappointment and this is particularly true if one is considering GH as a TRT substitute……… BAD IDEA

This GH thing has been so grossly exaggerated it's utterly radiculous.

Considering the cost and the high probability of being scammed, its just not the type of PED most people on Meso should be using……..Oh I know slam away but I've seen similar "get big fast" panaceas come and go and unless an individual is truly interested in the pro circuit and HAVE ALREADY BEEN involved in the competitive aspect of BB and lifting they are wasting their time and money on GH IMO!

GH should be the LAST PED to add that list of PEDs which already have been maximized AND everything else is perfected such as technique, diet, lifting partners, schedules, sponsors etc.

What would you suggest besides keeping up with diet, training, an a proper pct at the end of a cycle to help you retain as much of your gains as possible? Is their anything else you can take to help you keep gains all the way up an leading into your next cycle?

 

[Dr JIM]

i am also interested in HGH myself...I have been researching the pros and cons of it and one con kind of struck me negatively. I have seen a video that is basically the only thing that is keeping me from giving it my first shot. I suppose it is more prominent in people who use high amounts for a very long time but this vid is worth a peek. If your going to try something it is important to know both sides of the spectrum.

Those considering the use of GH ESPECIALLY in HIGH DOSES (10-20 IU/ DAY!!) should listen to this video.

Whether the causation is GI tract hypertrophy or something else is relatively mute bc the comparison of contemporary BB ABDOMINAL girth to those of the Schwartzeneeger, Zane, Columbo, Platz 1970 era is HUGE.

Damn as this fella rightfully mentions, being massive with a BIG gut, whether it's cut or not makes little difference bc that gut alters a viewers optical focal point!

Such that rather than noticing an impressive 2:1 CHEST to WAIST ratio, that enlarged belly greatly diminishes the relative size of a lifters CHEST, SHOULDERS, ARMS ect!!!

Ergo a really important point should be made which is, unless you prefer the body of a gorilla moderate your use of GH IF used at all!

No "I'm not talking shit" but am trying to emphasize the risks and benefits of GH use especially for those whom want to "get big fast" and believe "more is better", NOT!

Regs
JIM

 

[midland412]

Is it possible to substitute bunk product into the actual pens or cartridges for example in Genos?

 

[Skull]

NO!
In spite of GH being an anabolic agent it's androgenic effects are very limited especially compared to AAS, testosterone in particular.

Consequently if your using GH to enhance you sexual drive your in for a huge disappointment and this is particularly true if one is considering GH as a TRT substitute……… BAD IDEA

This GH thing has been so grossly exaggerated it's utterly radiculous.

Considering the cost and the high probability of being scammed, its just not the type of PED most people on Meso should be using……..Oh I know slam away but I've seen similar "get big fast" panaceas come and go and unless an individual is truly interested in the pro circuit and HAVE ALREADY BEEN involved in the competitive aspect of BB and lifting they are wasting their time and money on GH IMO!

GH should be the LAST PED to add that list of PEDs which already have been maximized AND everything else is perfected such as technique, diet, lifting partners, schedules, sponsors etc.

What would you suggest besides keeping up with diet, training, an a proper pct at the end of a cycle to help you retain as much of your gains as possible? Is their anything else you can take to help you keep gains all the way up an leading into your next cycle?

 

[Dr JIM]

This is what distended gut apparently looks like:

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd313/momma_duby/015.jpg

Here are the 1970's to contemporary BB comparisons. The difference can actually be relatively difficult to notice (although it's not subtle at all) with frontal projections BUT become much more apparent with lateral (side) pics.


Top left recent Mr O winners. Compare this lateral pic with that of a 1970's winner
or the bottom pic where the progression moves from Schwarteneeger to modern day Mr Os. The difference is UNDENIABLE and becoming more uniform IMO!

 

[Dr JIM]

This is what distended gut apparently looks like:

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd313/momma_duby/015.jpg

No offense mate but, I doubt the PIC from this site is what the video discussant had in mind. That's bc the UMBILICAL HERNIA noted in this PIC is the result of incomplete fascia alignment as a congenital (born with it) DEFECT. This defect of the abdominal wall enables intra-abdominal contents to extrude thru the "hole" and become noticeable.

However this patient obviously has a weakened anterior abdominal wall from inactivity and an uncertain degree of obesity. These factors further diminish the strength of the adjacent abdominal wall supportive structures and in the presence of a preexisting defect, lead to the development of a "hernia".

These are some PICS of BB with a "distended abdomen" whom also developed a "hernia" some are move obvious than others. HOWEVER, although there are a few exceptions such as prior surgery, almost ALL HERNIAS have a congenital PRIMARY causation which MAY BE worsened or "unmasked" by anything that increases the INTRA-ABDOMINAL PRESSURE. So theoretically at least, any factor that elevates intra-abdominal pressure may also increase the chance of hernia development. The latter could range from sit-ups to GH use!

 

[Dr JIM]

Here are a few "hernia" pics in BB, the video discussant mentions COULD happen with GH use.

NUMBER ONE
Is what appears to be a relatively classic UMBILICAL HERNIA, that the video discussant mentions

NUMBER TWO
(Appears to be what is referred to medically as a "diastasis recti") This occurs when a split involving a very large portion of the rectus fiscal sheath is split. In adults it's almost always the result of prior surgery that "failed" such as "having the bulging belly button fixed"

NUMBER THREE
Appears to be another rectus sheath hernia.

Regs
jim

 

[CensoredBoardsSuck]

Here are the 1970's to contemporary BB comparisons. The difference can actually be relatively difficult to notice (although it's not subtle at all) with frontal projections BUT become much more apparent with lateral (side) pics.

Here's a better comparison:

 

[CensoredBoardsSuck]

Whether the causation is GI tract hypertrophy or something else is relatively mute bc the comparison of contemporary BB ABDOMINAL girth to those of the Schwartzeneeger, Zane, Columbo, Platz 1970 era is HUGE.

What's your opinion on the causation? High dose GH causing GI tract hyperplasia seems to be the conventional wisdom but I think it's directly related to insulin abuse leading to an accumulation of visceral fat. Perhaps it's a combination of the two but I suspect it won't happen without insulin.

I think the fact that former bodybuilders often lose the big gut when they retire disproves the hyperplasia theory because hyperplasia isn't likely to be reversible to any significant degree, whereas visceral fat accumulation is reversible. What do you think?

 

[Dr JIM]

I honestly don't know but suspect it's a multi-factorial issue.

Does the HIGH doses of GH contribute oh I suspect so but that cause and effect relationship has not been studied excepting for one well established fact.

Which is when you push the envelope to above the RDD set by the manufacturer, side effect increase proportionally yet the effect can certainly become exponential when the dosages used exceed the RDD by several fold. The latter is what some in competitive BB are doing.

IMO people who are taking such high end GH doses are playing with their lives and may have some form of a "superman belief" or perhaps have an underlying death wish.

 

[CensoredBoardsSuck]

IMO people who are taking such high end GH doses are playing with their lives and may have some form of a "superman belief" or perhaps have an underlying death wish.

Agreed, it's a win at ALL costs mentality. As the great philosopher and trained research scientist Pericles once said: "First, you must be prepared to die." LMAO

 

[Dr JIM]

A

Is it possible to substitute bunk product into the actual pens or cartridges for example in Genos?

Why of course anything is possible but since the solvent and the GH are maintained in separate containers with the diluent in a vial and the powder being maintained in a syringe it's quite difficult.

The syringe system most manufacturers utilize in the US are damn near "tamper proof". To that end IF the GH powder was removed, less it being reconstituted, the syringe cartridge WILL invariably show signs of tampering.

Having said that what probably is being done, the Ph grade GH is removed as a reconstituted product and "stretched" using a variety of buffers, peptides or balancing agents.
It's then resold as a diluted product called "RIPs", for instance, that are "so well recognized" testing is not required, LMAO!

But rest assured there is no damn GH GENERIC PLANT and people like PC have some land in the moon he would also would like to sell you.

Because his comment even one Generic GH plant exists is utter nonsense (and if he or ANYONE ELSE can legitimately document the presence of such a generic facility I've ONE GRAND waiting for them NO BULLSHIT) but his post lamenting there are actually FOUR SUCH PLANTS CONFIRMS he is off his meds again!!!

And unfortunately I'm being sincere!!!

 

[kawilt]

The first batches of RIPs vials that stretch had were good and returned excellent IG-F levels. Subsequent shipments from other sources showed almost nothing. Same boxes same vials.

 

[Dr JIM]

The first batches of RIPs vials that stretch had were good and returned excellent IG-F levels. Subsequent shipments from other sources showed almost nothing. Same boxes same vials.

Reasonably typical occurrence based on the analytical testing I've done also.

 

[aestheticsfirst]

Hgh only does not cause a gut. The guy in the picture I posted had acromagely after the growth plates close. His gh levels were 20 times the normal amount and his facial structure changed to that of a neanderthal. But he doesn't seem to have a gut. It must be a combination of factors.

 

[Dr JIM]

Hgh only does not cause a gut. The guy in the picture I posted had acromagely after the growth plates close. His gh levels were 20 times the normal amount and his facial structure changed to that of a neanderthal. But he doesn't seem to have a gut. It must be a combination of factors.

No doubt there are a variety of factors that contribute to the anatomic differences (abdominal girth in particular) noted between contemporary BB and those of yesteryear.

However the overwhelming majority of Agromegalics are quite lean as in this PIC (at least initially)! Actually this clinical feature alone provides an indication of how limited the anabolic capabilities of GH is BUT it's the ADDITION of an AAS, protein supplements, other PEDs, and even the use of insulin when GH is used at such high doses doses that may account for the differences in BB that we see today.

Oh incidentally that poor fella already looks like a "Neanderthal"

 

[kawilt]

No doubt there are a variety of factors that contribute to the anatomic differences (abdominal girth in particular) noted between contemporary BB and those of yesteryear.

However the overwhelming majority of Agromegalics are quite lean as in this PIC (at least initially)! Actually this clinical feature alone provides an indication of how limited the anabolic capabilities of GH is BUT it's the ADDITION of an AAS, protein supplements, other PEDs, and even the use of insulin when GH is used at such high doses doses that may account for the differences in BB that we see today.

Oh incidentally that poor fella already looks like a "Neanderthal"

 

[kawilt]

Hgh only does not cause a gut. The guy in the picture I posted had acromagely after the growth plates close. His gh levels were 20 times the normal amount and his facial structure changed to that of a neanderthal. But he doesn't seem to have a gut. It must be a combination of factors.

Are there any photos of this guy, say 10 or so years ago? I'm curious as to why you think his facial features were caused by HGH use.

 

[Skull]

Here's a better comparison:

Is that sixth picture down Dr. Dre lol I think it is. Also those descended guts are not artistically pleasing at all. I would never allow myself to get like that. Imho arnold looks way better than they do by far. What judge in their right mind would allow someone that looks like that to claim a title?