xrayphoton13
Member
Holy shit that's super high dose! I'd be worried about my junk not working, post finasteride syndrome
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BigDadd7
Member
That's the standard prescribed dose
xrayphoton13
Member
I'm aware. I think it's 5mg/day with finasteride too which is crazy to me. but the standard prescribed dose has lead to permanent dysfunction in many patients from destroying dht levels for long periods of time. Lawsuits and all. They call it post finasteride syndrome. I believe the company selling propecia was fully aware of the sides from the high dosing? I haven't delved into all of it enough to separate fact from fiction or anecdote but it's definitely something where I think you should take the lowest dose possible to get the effect you want which I think for most of us is just to avoid hair loss
ChemBB
Member
I ran a 600 Test + 500 DHB blast for 12 weeks, got my incline bench up to a lifetime PR of 345
I really enjoyed it, had no side effects and the strength gains were immense. People originally called it "Tren Lite" but I'd say it's closer to "Super Primo".
My issue with DHB is that you can't find it higher than 100mg/mL generally, and no way do I want to pin an extra 3-5mL of oil on top of whatever else I'm running...
150-200mg/mL and we'd have a deal
bigdaddyandfriends
Member
I would agree with that assessment, the comparisons made with tren are not relevant other than maybe efficacious dose. Maybe try it again in the future at a lower dose, whatever you are willing to inject, f you hit a strength plateau. I only used 15mg/day (0.15cc) - replacing primo at 30mgday so same oil volume - and noticed major strength gains between weeks 1-2.
It is very much like a super primo, and in fact is chemically identical to primo without the steric hindrance from its added C1 methyl group - and originally that was put there for oral bioavaibility of primo acetate. Removing it seems to increase the drug's potency by 2-3x, if not more.
Neither primo nor DHB affected my estradiol to any significant degree. I have been needing less aromasin recently but am attributing that to the low dose EQ which I started same time as DHB, now one month in so still not at peak levels, and probably losing some more body fat. I'm hoping EQ acts as a mild AI. I've had good luck with aromasin but all the pharma AI medications are really too potent for men on cycle or using TRT... a drug that reduced aromatization by 10-20% would be ideal, which is what I'm hoping that 210mg/wk EQ might do. I've put off this experiment a long time because it is a lengthy one, and there is no way to rapidly adjust EQ levels unlike anastrozole. Aromasin (which I think is a far better AI choice) is somewhere in the middle.
My knowledge of brewing is not very limited but I think DHB is barely soluble at 100mg/ml using typical to slightly high BB concentrations. Beyond that significantlyi higher BB concentrations and/or synthetic solvents are needed. Maybe DHB enanthate might be brewable at 150-200mg, which is where primobolan tops out - but I don't think it's ever been produced as a raw. My DHB is 100mg/ml and there is no PIP, nor has it crashed at room temp. I was warming it up before injecting to minimize chance of PIP but stopped as it has yet to cause any.
ChemBB
Member
Yeah, it will crash at 100mg/mL in 2/20 BA BB if you put in a cold room
To get 150-200mg/mL, you need supersolvents like Guiacol. Maybe EO would work but I'm not sure.
bigdaddyandfriends
Member
True... Dut 0.5mg/day or finasteride 5mg/day are prescribed for BPH. Use for hair loss is off-label (in USA) for dutasteride. It should be more effective for hair loss than finasteride give the predominance of 5a-R type I in the scalp (fina only blocks type II).
Unfortunately knocking out 85-90% of DHT (and its active metabolites) causes major problems in many men. It's a long list but most common ones are loss of penile sensation/erections and cognitive/mental problems. These and other issues like fatigue and muscle weakness can persist in some individuals for a very long time after the drug is stopped, ie "PFS". The terminal half life is brief for finasteride, but very long for dutasteride, which makes infrequent dosing feasible. Taking a dose 0.5mg dose every 5-10 days would have similar effect as 0.05mg every day; this would be analogous to using propecia at 0.5-1mg/day (hair dose) instead of the 5mg/day for finasteride (BPH dose). When I used finasteride, I'd take a 5mg finasteride tablet and cut in four pieces so (a little less than 1.25mg each, as a little is lost as dust when cutting/splitting) and take one piece four days a week. It was enough to halt the hair loss on my crown that developed by age 30.
Some think using a DHT 'derivative' like mast, primo, proviron, anavar, etc can replace DHT - but they simply cannot, because they are distributed evenly thought out the body, while DHT is mostly formed and highly concentrated in specific structures like the brain, skin appendages, prostate, and penis. When we check DHT on blood work is mostly spillover from these specific structures with high 5aR expression; it's a gross estimation of how much DHT there is, but in reality any particular tissue may have zero or a large amount of DHT. Anabolism from testosterone is easily replaced with injectables, but androgenicity (which is predominantly from DHT) cannot be.
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Photon
Member
It doesn't need a lot of solvents, it's the pip that persists a day later, after the oil is absorbed.
BigDadd7
Member
That's good info. Thank you. I've been taking .25 mg/day for about three months. I have noticed my hairline filling back in and getting thicker, my crown not so much. Perhaps I will reduce my dosing to 2x week and see how it goes. No side effects, fortunately, but I suppose I wouldn't notice if I were getting dumber.
Photon
Member
@bigdaddyandfriends
Do you have access to an ultrasound machine? Would be interesting to see if anything is 'left behind' after the oil is absorbed..
bigdaddyandfriends
Member
At my offices, yes. Ultrasound, MR, CT, PET/CT, everything.
Photon
Member
Wanna pin 1ml DHB?
Then do multiple US scans to see if anything is left behind after the oil depot clears?
bigdaddyandfriends
Member
Not particularly. I was pinning 0.15mg/day but last day was 9/30.
I think the PiP is explainable by tiny crystals that form as the oil is resorbed and some of the DHB starts to precipitate out. They mechanically and/or chemically irritate the muscle fibers and in some people it can form a phlegmon or inflammatory mass.
Warming the DHB before injection (or keeping it in a baby warmer) to completely dissolve every particle and diluting with other oils in same syringe can be helpful.
Exact same thing that happens with winstrol suspension, particles are left behind after the water is resorbed; water is resorbed faster than oil. After one bad injection of winny suspension I’m not sure I’ll ever do that again, despite being fantastic, and if I do it will be diluted in a lot of L-carn.
Primobolan is really no different, other than having about twice the solubility, so 200mg instead of 100mg per ml in oil. And that’s UGL too, I believe pharma was 100mg/ml. My impression from using both is that DHB is > 2x more potent, as I used half as much and made far better gains. I’ve gotten some pretty bad PIP from from primobolan 200 in the past, and from primobolan acetate 50 too, although winstrol is the clear winner for worst injection ever.
Deadpool99
Member
I curiously have a question if you don’t mind answering. As I haven’t seen anyone with a diverse AAS portfolio as you have.
If you had to do one final bulk, to put as much lean tissue as humanely possible, I’m curious to see what would be the compounds you’d pick and possible dosages.
I guess it’ll probably to be a combo of high test/tren and I’m curious what other compounds would you feel is worth it for pure lean gains not just strength wise.
Almost no one can easily bulk on high TREN. Kills appetite, acid reflux, general toxicity.
There is what's on paper is ideal and what's in reality is ideal.
What you can run the highest and for longest is the clear winner plus you can't put infinite mass in a specific set of time. It takes TIME to acquire lean mass. There is no way around it, you can blast 10G and you will achieve the same mass in x months than someone else with 1/3 of that or less. The difference will be your bloods will look like shit.
Deadpool99
Member
Well tbh, ik many that don't get the appetite and acid reflux issues. I for one use GLP1's alongside my tren and still have to hold myself back. I probably had the appetite issues for like 1 week when I first introduced it, after that never felt it.
If one can tolerate it with good bloods, seems like a no brainer for pure lean mass.
Of course there is always a set amount of muscle you can physically gain per week/month, but I was interested to see @ChemBB's favorite stack for pure putting on lean muscle. As he seems to handle tren fairly well. So I am curious.
ChemBB
Member
Either as much Trestolone as I could handle (have done 300mg before, so maybe 500-700mg), or 2g Test.
Combined with:
- 50-100mg Anavar
- 10iu GH
- 10-20iu Slin
Maybe throw in 400-600 Mast E.
I did 1g Test + 500 Mast before and that was pretty solid.
Have a competitive PL friend who's run up to 1g Trest.
bigdaddyandfriends
Member
I stay on low dose tren. I’d only d/c it if I wanted to bulk.
Most I’ve ever done was 175mg/wk and that was without any test. Was able to control E2 just fine with a little Aromasin, but it was hard on my BP and developed typical 19-nor symptoms (mainly inorgasmia).
Wow… was he able to control estrogen on that or did he just let it run wild? I know some PL do that intentionally.
Most I’ve ever done was 175mg/wk and that was without any test. Was able to control E2 just fine with a little Aromasin, but it was hard on my BP and developed typical 19-nor symptoms (mainly inorgasmia).
ChemBB
Member
Will message him and ask. He has a monster gear tolerance so I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't use an AI, regularly runs 2-3g blasts
