Diary of Baguette

[Baguette]

Hi everyone

This is your local french apprentice BB !

After reading your feedbacks in the shadow (and I learned A LOT, thank you), I decided to register !


Some informations about me :​

• Women 27 yo ;​
• 154 lbs, 5,6’’ ;​
• 6 years of serious training ;​
• ~ 20% BF
  ​

A little cure of var (6 weeks 5mg 2x day) but I don’t notice anything.

Some guys on Meso FR told me doing a cure with 20+% of BF wasn’t a good idea, so I stopped -> I'm interested to know why this is a bad idea, and what BF is recommended to start ?

After years of dirty bulking, I started a little degreasing since two months, feeling tired but my weight is going down nicely ! (I started at 165 lbs)

Rethinking all my diet and macros, getting some discipline.


4 days training on 6 days :​

• Chest / Shoulders (+ 15-30min of cardio)​
• Back / ABS (+ 15-30min of cardio)​
• OFF​
• Legs​
• Arms / Shoulders (+ 15-30min of cardio)​
• OFF​

Macro for that cut time :​

• Day on : ~ 2000 kcal P140 C200 F70​
• Day off : ~ 1800kcal P180 C90 F80 (Cetogene plan)
  ​

Supplements :​

• Vegan mix whey​
• L-glutamine​
• Glycine​
• Multivitamins
  ​

Want to :​

• Run on Primo + Anadrol -> start when primo will be avalaible again​
• Continue to lose weight and improve cardio to get back into boxing (and take dry mass ofc)
  ​

Pleasure to read you, and sorry for my approximative english ! ​

 

[ChemBB]

I'm interested to know why this is a bad idea, and what BF is recommended to start

The argument for males is that, because the primary anabolic (Testosterone) is aromatized into estradiol, and because adipose tissue expresses aromatase, you have worse side effects and a harder time controlling E2.

For females, who generally use non-aromatizing compounds like Anavar, Winstrol, Nandrolone, this is a non-issue

Also, for a girl, 20% bodyfat is very "normal", I'd consider that the male equivalent of something like 12-14%? More on the athletic side than an average person.

[]Want to :[/]

• []Run on Primo + Anadrol -> start when primo will be avalaible again[/]

If you plan on running this for a period longer than 6-8 weeks, you will probably want to buy injectable Estradiol and low-dose Testosterone.

You'll have no Test/E2 due to suppression (E2 suppression further exacerbated by Primo), which will start to feel quite bad after some months.

You can do something like 20-25mg Test a week with 2-3mg Estradiol to replace natural levels

 

[Baguette]

@ChemBB Thanks for your very detailled answer !
So I would maybe try again var alone before Primo, with higher doses this time

If you plan on running this for a period longer than 6-8 weeks, you will probably want to buy injectable Estradiol and low-dose Testosterone.

You'll have no Test/E2 due to suppression (E2 suppression further exacerbated by Primo), which will start to feel quite bad after some months.

You can do something like 20-25mg Test a week with 2-3mg Estradiol to replace natural levels

U mean during the cure or after, like a PCT ?
I didn't see that on every women's journal, is it relevant with low doses ?I was thinking of starting with 50mg primo /per week during 10 weeks

 

[ChemBB]

U mean during the cure or after, like a PCT ?
I didn't see that on every women's journal, is it relevant with low doses ? I thoughed to begin with 50mg primo /per week during 10 weeks

During

When you take steroids, your body reduces production of it's own hormones due to suppression of the HPTA

Hypothalamic–pituitary–adrenal axis - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

For short periods of time, like 6-8 weeks, this generally does not feel too bad.

But after longer periods of time, you will start to suffer fatigue, libido, mood issues etc.

You can get your testosterone + estradiol checked during your cycle to confirm this is the case.

 

[Baguette]

@ChemBB
Thanks, I knew that for men but didn't sure it was a problem for women, with our low baseline testosterone levels

 

[Jussik]

The argument for males is that, because the primary anabolic (Testosterone) is aromatized into estradiol, and because adipose tissue expresses aromatase, you have worse side effects and a harder time controlling E2.

For females, who generally use non-aromatizing compounds like Anavar, Winstrol, Nandrolone, this is a non-issue

Also, for a girl, 20% bodyfat is very "normal", I'd consider that the male equivalent of something like 12-14%? More on the athletic side than an average person.


If you plan on running this for a period longer than 6-8 weeks, you will probably want to buy injectable Estradiol and low-dose Testosterone.

You'll have no Test/E2 due to suppression (E2 suppression further exacerbated by Primo), which will start to feel quite bad after some months.

You can do something like 20-25mg Test a week with 2-3mg Estradiol to replace natural levels

Sorry to chime in but this is very interesting for me.

I definitely experiences the crashed E2 on test/primo. Do you recommend injecting the estrogen or would pills be ok?

 

[ChemBB]

Sorry to chime in but this is very interesting for me.

I definitely experiences the crashed E2 on test/primo. Do you recommend injecting the estrogen or would pills be ok?

You can use pills, but you have to make sure they are Estradiol, _NOT_ Ethinyl Estradiol

 

[Jussik]

You can use pills, but you have to make sure they are Estradiol, _NOT_ Ethinyl Estradiol

Sounds good. What is a good starting dose for the estradiol pills?

 

[ChemBB]

What is a good starting dose for the estradiol pills?

So, this is _my_ suggestion, and you'll need to do your own homework and decision-making here:

I'm of the opinion that having E2 in the upper end of the physiological range (averaged throughout cycle phases, e.g. somewhere around 150-200pg/mL) is the ideal.

E2 is such an important hormone, and you'd rather be slightly high than slightly low, in my book.

So, how do we get to that 150-200pg/mL target with oral Estradiol?

A best-guess is ~4-6mg daily, split into 2 doses AM/PM.

But something very important to mention about oral E2: it produces unnatural ratios of E1:E2. All other forms (sublingual, transdermal, injectable) do not have this issue.

https://www.endocrinepractice.org/article/S1530-891X(21)01374-4/abstract

Estradiol and progesterone bioavailability for moderate to... : Menopause

describe P4 levels sufficient to counteract the potential endometrial effects of 1 or 0.5 mg oral E2 with TX-001HR. Methods: In REPLENISH (phase 3; NCT01942668), serum P4, E2, and estrone (E1) levels were characterized in postmenopausal women treated with TX-001HR (E2 mg/P4 mg: 1/100...

journals.lww.com

For a 1mg oral dose, from one of the above:

"...oral E2 concentration of 35 pg/mL."

And for a 0.5mg or 1.0mg dose:

"E2 levels were 42.3 to 45.6 pg/mL and 23.0 to 27.4 pg/mL for the 1-mg and 0.5-mg E2 doses, respectively;"

So, you can ballpark around ~40pg per 1mg E2 as a safe assumption.

 

[Jussik]

So, this is _my_ suggestion, and you'll need to do your own homework and decision-making here:

I'm of the opinion that having E2 in the upper end of the physiological range (averaged throughout cycle phases, e.g. somewhere around 150-200pg/mL) is the ideal.

E2 is such an important hormone, and you'd rather be slightly high than slightly low, in my book.

So, how do we get to that 150-200pg/mL target with oral Estradiol?

A best-guess is ~4-6mg daily, split into 2 doses AM/PM.

But something very important to mention about oral E2: it produces unnatural ratios of E1:E2. All other forms (sublingual, transdermal, injectable) do not have this issue.

https://www.endocrinepractice.org/article/S1530-891X(21)01374-4/abstract

Estradiol and progesterone bioavailability for moderate to... : Menopause

describe P4 levels sufficient to counteract the potential endometrial effects of 1 or 0.5 mg oral E2 with TX-001HR. Methods: In REPLENISH (phase 3; NCT01942668), serum P4, E2, and estrone (E1) levels were characterized in postmenopausal women treated with TX-001HR (E2 mg/P4 mg: 1/100...

journals.lww.com

For a 1mg oral dose, from one of the above:

"...oral E2 concentration of 35 pg/mL."

And for a 0.5mg or 1.0mg dose:

"E2 levels were 42.3 to 45.6 pg/mL and 23.0 to 27.4 pg/mL for the 1-mg and 0.5-mg E2 doses, respectively;"

So, you can ballpark around ~40pg per 1mg E2 as a safe assumption.

Thank you a lot for this information. Very good information.

 

[thejumpingsheep]

Sorry to chime in but this is very interesting for me.

I definitely experiences the crashed E2 on test/primo. Do you recommend injecting the estrogen or would pills be ok?

The other obvious solution is not use primo. What dose are you on?

For most women, your doses are so low that really any AAS is fine. I think there was a lady here not too long ago who did Tren for 6 years straight non-stop and barely got a lady thumbnail size clit from that. I dont think anyone will care about this. Im not saying to do that 6 years straight but point here is you arent just going to turn into a man overnight no matter what you choose as long as its low dose and time limited.

Anyway some of the less androgenic options include Deca, NPP, EQ and obviously Anavar. Primo is good too but as you discovered, it destroys E2. Other moderate options that some ladies seem to use include Mast and Winstrol.

 

[Nunya]

Hello fellow female, welcome! What are you training for?

 

[Baguette]

Hello @Nunya !
Even if that answer is annoying to hear again and again, I just training for myself and would like to experiment hormons. Also, I've been stuck at the same weight for a while now, I've changed my program, my diet, etc. But I'm not very patient and progress is so slow for a women..!

 

[Baguette]

@thejumpingsheep

Hello ! Thanks to contribute !
What about combining primo with a molecule ''aromatizing'' ? Like Anadrol

 

[Jussik]

The other obvious solution is not use primo. What dose are you on?

For most women, your doses are so low that really any AAS is fine. I think there was a lady here not too long ago who did Tren for 6 years straight non-stop and barely got a lady thumbnail size clit from that. I dont think anyone will care about this. Im not saying to do that 6 years straight but point here is you arent just going to turn into a man overnight no matter what you choose as long as its low dose and time limited.

Anyway some of the less androgenic options include Deca, NPP, EQ and obviously Anavar. Primo is good too but as you discovered, it destroys E2. Other moderate options that some ladies seem to use include Mast and Winstrol.

I currently run 10mg daily.

I am not sure that deca, NPP and EQ are actually less androgenic than primo. They might not affect E2 as much, but that doesn't make them less androgenic automatically. I would maybe give Mast E a try to get less of an E2 suppression, but my last bloodwork was on TRT only and my E2 has never been this low. I don't know for definite that it's the past primo cycles that have crashed my E2.

 

[Liter O' Test]

i wwould never touch anadrol as a woman

there was a study about the individual response (serum levels) of anavar and it varied up to 100%. so some women might need more and some might need less, which is why some might get more sides or results than others

 

[Jussik]

I've ran low dose anadrol both injectable and oral. I wouldn't touch the injectable one ever again because it was painful as hell to pin. 12.5mg of oral anadrol preworkout for like 4 weeks though was great

 

[thejumpingsheep]

I currently run 10mg daily.

I am not sure that deca, NPP and EQ are actually less androgenic than primo. They might not affect E2 as much, but that doesn't make them less androgenic automatically. I would maybe give Mast E a try to get less of an E2 suppression, but my last bloodwork was on TRT only and my E2 has never been this low. I don't know for definite that it's the past primo cycles that have crashed my E2.

Didn't mean less androgenic than Primo specifically, just that they are some of the less androgenic AAS options.

In my tables I have Deca, NPP, EQ, Primo and Anavar as low androgenic. Mast I have slightly above the other aforementioned but the problem there is it still lowers E2 somewhat. They are all being compared to plain Test-C in for the sake of scaling.

What I cant believe is 10mg of Primo is crashing your E2... I mean you should have very high E2 compared to us guys and that dosage is low even for females. You sure something else isnt going on? What do you mean by crash exactly? What levels did you read and when in your cycle was it read?

 

[thejumpingsheep]

@thejumpingsheep

Hello ! Thanks to contribute !
What about combining primo with a molecule ''aromatizing'' ? Like Anadrol

Uh not sure I deserve much of a thanks. Im just echoing what I learned around here lol.

I think with you ladies, we really need to know your doses and see some bloods before we can say much otherwise its guess work. Your doses are usually so low I cant imagine you are getting much aromatization or suppression given how high your E2 is naturally.

So for example, for us guys, say I take 250mg/wk test-c. Eventually my E2 will climb from <10 (my natural state) to maybe 30. I can wipe that all out with about 125mg of Primo sending my E2 back to baseline of <10. So in other words, Primo 125mg wiped out about 20 points from my E2. But is that same for you ladies? I have no idea... But I cant imagine 10mg of Primo or Anadrol will do much. Can they?

You ladies have natural E2 between like 60 during low cycle and as high as 300 during high cycle? Right? So even with 125mg of Primo, assuming you get similar suppression as us guys, its not like it can crash your E2 far below 40 even during your low cycle. I am not as knowledgeable with women reactions to this stuff so by all means correct me if Im wrong. I would love to know because my wife is very interested in starting soon once she gets her estrogen normalized from low to medium level (she is per-menopause).

As for anadrol, we need to see your doses but again I wouldnt count on it aromatizing to any significant level if you are doing like 10mg. At least I dont think so... In terms of sides and androgenic properties, I know women can do anything as long as doses arent ridiculous. Case and point the lady who did 35mg/wk Tren for like 6 years. Thats a pretty high dosage and thats a powerful AAS...