Best weight gainer powder?

[thick]

lol, my bad when i c that bear i assume u r just going to call the guy an asshole and tell him to eat

Put your reading glasses on, slapdick! I got to it an hour before Bob did.

I agree, Bob. Mentzer was one messed up theoried individual.

 

[Bob Smith]

Put your reading glasses on, slapdick! I got to it an hour before Bob did.

I agree, Bob. Mentzer was one messed up theoried individual.

Must be all that Ayn Rand crap that he talked about for 90% of his waking hours.

 

[Grizzly]

That's it, buddy, you're going down! Speaking of going down, you must be doing a lot of it lately. Who's the post-whore now, Mr. 200 posts in the last 2 days? Huh, huh, huh? I think you're higher than me now. Of course, it's impossible to catch up to thick and his puckering.

 

[Bob Smith]

Youve got me by time right now, 570 to 560. Thick "Im a Post-Whore" is pushing 900 today. Have I really had 200 posts in the last 2 days? I thought it was at least a week or two.

 

[thick]

did i hear my name involved in this lol

 

[BigPapaPump]

hey man I just took about a week and a half off. I know it doesnt seem like that long but I was weeker. I will eventually get backup to my full potential again but at least I gave all my muscles full time to recover. It is good to take about a week or so off once in a while . I do it about every three months or so.

 

[dumbbellpress]

Bob Smith I completely disagree with your theories. You say that training a muscle every 48 - 72 hrs is optimal????That statement is maybe the weirdest I have ever read on Meso. If you are training Dorian Yates style balls to the wall every set to total failure then there is a 0.0000000% chance you will be able to fully recover in only 48 hours. There is a 0.00000% chance Bob.

I just don't understand your logic.

If I am proven to be wrong, you will have a personal apology from me. Can you please give me some literature I can read about why you claim training a BP every 48-72 hours is optimal. i have many many many friends over the years who train the same way I do - Dorian Yates style low volume every set to failure and about 30% of my sets I do 1-2 forced reps. ALL of us and I mean EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US have tried training a BP this way as often as every 96 hours and it is simply too much...........Overtraining set in. cortisol levels rose, iritability, fatigue, insomnia loss of strength set in............in a word every single one of us hit the proverbial brick wall. Maybe if you are goofing around in the gym flirting with the cute girls and only doing 8 reps when you had 10 or 11 reps in you before you hit failure.............sure I think you could train a BP every 72 hours and get away with it. But when you train Dorian Yates style with every set to total failure and again about 30% of your sets you are squeezing out 1-2 forced reps....................It is just not possible to recover in 72 hours. Again, please show me the literature that backs your claims and if I am wrong I will issue you an apology as well as trying to figure out why the hell me and all of my buddies that train Yates style need atleast 120 hours rest in between BP's.

dumbbellpress Future Husband of Jennifer Love Hewitt Cowboys 2004 NFL Champs

By the way Bob, what is with your avatar man?? I mean you have a devastatingly devastatingly gorgeous girlfriend in Jewel. She is a really sweet kindhearted girl. Man oh man you are truly a blessed man to have a girl as beautiful as her. Doesn't she get really jealous when she sees your avatar????

 

[DonkeyKong]

ee

Bob Smith,your a pretty smart dude as Ive read a few of your posts
but I can tell by your reply your definatley not an ectomorph.I took my bodyweight from 130 to 250 in 4years.I ve been taking weight gainers ever since.And if they are mainly just sugar and fat,well thats what some of us guys actually need.There is no fucking way your gonna get all the claories you need from just clean wholesome foods when your an EXTREMELY ectomorphic guy like me.I would probably need to eat like 10 chicken breasts a day to get the cals,from just the shakes alone.Plus if you have a real job you cant be eating all fucking day.

I like TWINLABS GAINERS FUEL 2500.Awsome.

 

[mrmoo]

Bob Smith I completely disagree with your theories. You say that training a muscle every 48 - 72 hrs is optimal????That statement is maybe the weirdest I have ever read on Meso. If you are training Dorian Yates style balls to the wall every set to total failure then there is a 0.0000000% chance you will be able to fully recover in only 48 hours. There is a 0.00000% chance Bob.

I just don't understand your logic.

You don't need to fully recover within 48 hours. That's the whole point of DFHT. Go read one of the many DFHT posts on here. Animalmass'es is a good place to start.

Bob never said anything about training to failure on every set and working out every 48 hours. Your talking about two totally different training theories. Your talking about HIT. Bob is talking about DFHT or a variant there of.

 

[Bob Smith]

You don't need to fully recover within 48 hours. That's the whole point of DFHT. Go read one of the many DFHT posts on here. Animalmass'es is a good place to start.

Bob never said anything about training to failure on every set and working out every 48 hours. Your talking about two totally different training theories. Your talking about HIT. Bob is talking about DFHT or a variant there of.

Well said, my cow friend.

DBP, I dont advocate training to failure. Never have, never will. IMO, its an impedence to growth and only leads to overtraining at a faster rate. If someone trains to failure, as you said you do, then of course you wont be able to train in 48-72 hours, you're likely still quite sore. Training to failure has not been shown to be beneficial, and in most studies, only a detriment. And as MrMoo said, waiting for full recovery before training again is like taking 3 steps forward and 2 1/2 steps back.

Here is some reading, with appropriate references at the bottom.
http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/hst_artcls_trainingfreq.html

Hopefully Bryan will reply to you, as he is the one who has read all the research and can give you the references you ask for.

 

[Grizzly]

DBP- YOu've never ventured into the training forum here, have you? Read the JS sticky and you'll have more than enough info.

 

[Bryan Haycock]

Loading frequency

[NOTE] The references provided are not all inclusive. They are only example of relevant research pertaining to how muscle tissue grows in response to mechanical loading etc.

Sorry this is so long
People have been led to believe that muscle can only grow while it is resting. I'm sure you've heard the old saying "You don't grow while youre in the gym". What people fail to realize is that if you stayed in the gym long enough, you would start to grow, even in you never stopped working out.(1) Granted, there is an initial increase in protein breakdown, but this is followed by increased rates of protein synthesis. The fact that we dont workout very long at a time made it appear as though you had to stop working out in order for protein synthesis to begin. In reality, it was just coincidence that the typical duration of our workouts coincided with the time course for changes in protein breakdown and synthesis. Anabolism will usually begin within a few hours of the muscle being loaded.

The other issue, and probably the most influential notion, is that a muscle cant repair itself from the damage caused by the workout until it is no longer being used. This makes sense if you think of the way we treat people who have been injured. You make them lie down, lay still, and rest. Muscle and microtrauma is different however. As our bodies evolved, or were designed (however you chose to look at it), it became necessary that we could adapt to a given environmental change while still being subject to that change. Take your skin and its adaptive process of tanning for example. We would find it silly to think that you had to come out from the sunlight before the tanning process could begin. We know that your skin will tan even if you must stay in the sunlight. Our skin has the ability to adapt to the ultraviolet radiation even while still being subjected to it.

Our muscle is similar to our skin in this respect. Our muscle tissue is able to grow larger and tougher even while the load is still imposed upon it. Or in our case, our muscle is able to adapt to being trained with weights even if we train again before the adaptive process started from the first bout has finished.(2)

Another example from hypertrophy research are the synergistic ablation studies. If a muscle werent able to grow without 72 hours recovery, synergistic ablation studies wouldnt produce the kind of extreme muscle hypertrophy that they do. Not only that, but most of this hypertrophy is accomplished in 7-14 days.

The final reason that HST has you train with greater frequency is to take advantage of the time course of mechano-growth factor (MGF) and subsequent protein synthesis rates following training.(3) Training a muscle more frequently keeps protein synthesis rates elevated for a larger percentage of the time. This combined with proper diet and supplementation leads to faster muscle growth.

I would also like to address the comments about frequency as it relates to training to failure. It is VERY important to keep in mind that the CNS and the sarcomere are separate tissues. The CNS has its own output and recovery needs and muscle tissue has its own. They do not correspond with each other chronologically. This is why it is so important to address performance and hypertrophy separately. Training for both simultaneously requires a compromise, which is fine for most people, but its still a compromise.

As others have already mentioned, from experience it becomes clear that training to CNS failure with sufficiently high volume prohibits people from training using high frequency. Because CNS output does not return to baseline for several days, training loads must necessarily decrease, thus defeating the most basic and critical principle of progressive load. So, when a person suggests higher frequency of training for hypertorphy, they arent arguing that it can be accomplished with traditional fatigue/strength-based training methods.



1. Control of adaptations in protein levels in response to exercise. Fed Proc 1985 Apr;44(7):2293-300

2. Nosaka K, Newton M. Repeated eccentric exercise bouts do not exacerbate muscle damage and repair. J Strength Cond Res. 2002 Feb; 16(1): 117-22.

3. Tipton KD, Wolfe RR. Exercise, protein metabolism, and muscle growth. Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 2001 Mar; 11(1): 109-32

 

[eleven11]

After my gang rape a couple weeks ago ( Bob. Grizz. Thick ) well bob did the raping, grizz at least gave me a reach around, thick mostly watched.( he did make a few comments to add to his total )
Just kiddin guys .. lol.. anyway I read the HST thead. I've been training for a long time guys and I'm willing to try something new if I think its worth it. Anyway I started this last week, no problems so far but do you guys feel sometimes like you not geeting a full workout? I'm trying to resist the urge to add some weight or reps and give this a chance. Plus when I get to the 5 rep stage I might feel different.

Anyway I'm in my second week and I'll finish the 6 weeks and make my decision. So are these normal ? to this type of workout?

 

[thick]

are you saying you feel like you haven't gone through a workout even with the 15's? The 15's suck. They kick the living shit out of me. edit: so we dont take over this thread why dont u start a new one illustrating what lifts you are implementing and more details of what you are doing. Bryan is here now so u should get great feedback.

 

[eleven11]

are you saying you feel like you haven't gone through a workout even with the 15's? The 15's suck. They kick the living shit out of me.

well if I understand it . It says to use a lighter weight than you can do 15 with and slowly build up to the weight that you can only do 15 with on the last workout of that 2week period. Don't get me wrong it's still a pretty good workout. It just feels strainge stopping when I know I can do more reps.

 

[eleven11]

are you saying you feel like you haven't gone through a workout even with the 15's? The 15's suck. They kick the living shit out of me. edit: so we dont take over this thread why dont u start a new one illustrating what lifts you are implementing and more details of what you are doing. Bryan is here now so u should get great feedback.

you might be rite. but I dont think this tread has been talking about protien powder since the first page.

 

[Grizzly]

eleven- I don't use HST, per se, but utilize the principles on which it is based. It does feel a little weird at first when you're doing 3 or 4 exercises TOPS on a given day and stopping well short of failure, but the results are all that I'm after. And, as far as the results go, they have been great.

 

[eleven11]

eleven- I don't use HST, per se, but utilize the principles on which it is based. It does feel a little weird at first when you're doing 3 or 4 exercises TOPS on a given day and stopping well short of failure, but the results are all that I'm after. And, as far as the results go, they have been great.

I agree thats why I'm going to see it through. I'm not there to impress anyone I just want good results from my workouts...

I took thicks advise and started a new thread but I stuck it in the wrong forum. can one of the mods move it for me? its in this forum. it needs to be in the training forum.

 

[Bryan Haycock]

Just kiddin guys .. lol.. anyway I read the HST thead. I've been training for a long time guys and I'm willing to try something new if I think its worth it. Anyway I started this last week, no problems so far but do you guys feel sometimes like you not geeting a full workout? I'm trying to resist the urge to add some weight or reps and give this a chance. Plus when I get to the 5 rep stage I might feel different.

Anyway I'm in my second week and I'll finish the 6 weeks and make my decision. So are these normal ? to this type of workout?

Hi eleven11,

It is important to remember that in the case of the 15 rep block, it will only serve to promote hypertrophy if done following Strategic Deconditioning (SD). If you abruptly go from training to failure with weights in the 4-8 rep range to using 15 reps with only 80% of your 15RM, you aren't going to "feel" much of anything but warmed up.

The 15's will only create a noticable hypertrophic effect after SD. Aside from that, they will help to improve the metabolic capacity of the tissue which will indirectly help you grow. Altering the metabolic environment inside the cell is anabolic so some extent, however, it won't lead to satellite cell activity, thus it will only serve to increase contractile proteins within the nuclear to cytoplasmic ratio limits. In other words, you may build a little muscle, but the volume of the muscle cells won't change noticably.

Anyway, without going into too much needless detail, the 15s will not make you grow if you are already highly conditioned.

 

[eleven11]

Hi eleven11,

It is important to remember that in the case of the 15 rep block, it will only serve to promote hypertrophy if done following Strategic Deconditioning (SD). If you abruptly go from training to failure with weights in the 4-8 rep range to using 15 reps with only 80% of your 15RM, you aren't going to "feel" much of anything but warmed up.

The 15's will only create a noticable hypertrophic effect after SD. Aside from that, they will help to improve the metabolic capacity of the tissue which will indirectly help you grow. Altering the metabolic environment inside the cell is anabolic so some extent, however, it won't lead to satellite cell activity, thus it will only serve to increase contractile proteins within the nuclear to cytoplasmic ratio limits. In other words, you may build a little muscle, but the volume of the muscle cells won't change noticably.

Anyway, without going into too much needless detail, the 15s will not make you grow if you are already highly conditioned.

Thank you Bryan. I figured this 2 weeks was only leading me to the following weeks ahead. Getting me prepaired so to speak. please look at my thead in the training forum when you get a chance HST vs HIT tell me what you think. Thanks again....11