ObamaCare Coming Apart at the Seams

[james2012]

As I predicted, especially with an election year coming up and the cost of ObamaCare along with the reduced healthcare quality libs are starting to panic. I won't post the entire thing here...go read it. Suffice it to say the exchanges have been delayed an entire YEAR.

AND their is wide consensus to kill the medical equipment tax. Obambi is going to veto (or so he threatens) but 79 Senators (that's right - in DC sometimes they can come together when their political butts are on the line) are more than enough to shove it back in his face and tell him to take a hike and override his veto.

This is just the beginning.

Story here: ObamaCare in Trouble? Exchange provision delayed, as lawmakers push to repeal another | Fox News

Google it. There are other references. This is to stop the low information voter robot thinking sheep follower from jumping up and down and saying "but, but, but...it's Fox News so it must be BS!". Heading of libs at the pass....easier to do than you think.

 

[skofan]

obama personally works it all out, and does the rest of the work needed for obamacare to work himself.
President Personally Performs First Obamacare Euthanization | The Onion - America's Finest News Source

not to be an asswipe, but you quoted fox news yourself.

 

[james2012]

obama personally works it all out, and does the rest of the work needed for obamacare to work himself.
President Personally Performs First Obamacare Euthanization | The Onion - America's Finest News Source

not to be an asswipe, but you quoted fox news yourself.

Perhaps Time Magazine will fill the void in your cranium? Obamacare Incompetence | TIME.com

Sorry, but my last statement in my previous post already disarmed your attempt. Don't get me wrong - I'm sure your an asswipe. I mean, you admitted it and certainly won't disagree with you on that one. But again, Google, Bing, Yahoo....you know the drill. The fact I had to repeat myself to you says something about you. I'll leave it to you to figure out. Google won't help you there but a Thesaurus might: nescient

ObambiCare is going down. It is only a question of how much pain the average American is going to have to go through. Soon even most of the low information dolts will realize the rather obvious. Of course, low information voters take a really long time to realize the obvious and some never do. But in the end the truth of this statement will be made clear:

This is what happens when you have an administration that has the idea that it can reform, remake and completely re-regulate one sixth of the biggest economy on planet earth. I mean, I’m not surprised that the regulations are late and they are unclear. And they are also incredibly arbitrary. The waivers people get, thousands of them, who gets it? Who doesn’t? Somebody whom the government or the Democrats or liberals like? Somebody that is not liked? Are you going to get a waiver?

Look, when you take away the essence of insurance – insurance, you set a premium according to actuarial risk. So, if you are 60 your healthcare costs are six times what it is for a 20-year-old. So, your premiums are six times as much. But, the Congress in its wisdom has decided it should be three times instead of six. So once you do that you no longer have an insurance company. This is not insurance anymore. This is regulation, this is government dictated rates, like the electrical company and people are surprised that all of a sudden you have got all these things that aren’t working harmoniously as you would in a market.

Regulation...it's what Comrades love.

 

[skofan]

actually i was merely pointing out that you were quoting the news source with probably the worlds lowest trust rating.

"but, but, but...it's Fox News so it must be BS!"

just isnt enough to make an untrustworthy source, any more trustworthy. at the same time you decide to argue that more trustworthy sources agree's, but choose to quote the one that isnt.

Certainly, the Republicans who have stood in the way of these exchanges—their own idea, by the way, born in the conservative Heritage Foundation—deserve a great deal of the “credit” for the debacle.

pulled right out of your second quoted article. and granted the system isnt anywhere near perfect, hell it isnt even the system originally proposed, its what's left of it after a year of politicians trying to do economists and medical professionals jobs, while being bribed my the medicinal and insurance industry. so fine, lets agree that it is a flawed system, but please dont pawn off the entire responsibility to a single man you dont like.

im gonna skip the argument of public healthcare systems that actually work, since i have a feeling that you dont give a flying frog about them, even though they're your closest friends and allies systems.

im not gonna try and get into the argument of being uninformed, or the primary flaws of fractional reserve capitalism either. and heck reffering to me as a communist ill even take as a compliment, since your point of reference is obviously wrong, and you mean everyone not bowing down to the absolute power of the dollar.

but hey, have a nice day.

 

[james2012]

Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened...Winston Churchill

Looks like you picked yourself off and bolted at a full sprint. I guess a low information voter listening to the Lame Stream Media does not get the whole story. Heritage changed its stance (under pressure from conservatives - one in particular who went on to write a book on the subject): http://spectator.org/archives/2011/12/21/heritage-and-the-individual-ma

Peter Ferrara who did a great deal of writing and other work for the foundation outed the main players in this fiasco and his relationship has never recovered, especially with Stuart Butler.

Mr. Ferrara then received rewards for his work in killing the Heritage health plan from the American Conservative Union and Eagle Forum. He writes: "I now have the reward of the whole conservative movement agreeing that I was right all along."

So first off, RINOs are not conservatives and conservatives can sometimes support ideas they will rethink upon exposure, subsequent debate, and navel gazing. Libs never do that.

Secondly, this is not a bi-partisan bill. Reid used Reconciliation to pass it (no filibuster) and bribes (the Cornhusker Kickback and Louisianna Purchase as they have become known) to push through a bill that no Republican voted for.

At the time I was working with a team of political players in DC (Larry Ward, Larry Hunter, and Lewis Uhler). Google them if you don't know who they are. I did out Cornyn (R-TX) after ABC News The Note blog got wind of a memo where Cornyn basically said, look like we are fighting it, vote no on it, but don't join Senator DeMint in removing unanimous consent. So they allowed it to pass for political gain (which they got in 2010) and it now clear they have no will to kill it via removing funding in the House. So screw the RINOs, screw the liberals who shoved this down our throats, and I'm actually glad that those who voted for this idiot and supported this stupid plan are doing to suffer. Of course, so will the rest of us, unless you have money. Thankfully, I am in a position where I can use money with a number of doctor's I personally know (I have a lot of health problems) who are going cash only that I pay for my care myself and can handle two major health emergency issues (e.g. cancer) before having to go bankrupt. As for the rest who will find the lines even longer as doctor's drop out or go cash only, those lines are going to be a hell of a lot longer than anyone ever imagined. ObamaCare is going to hurt those it was supposed to help, hurt everyone else in the process, drive costs through the frigging roof, and put us into another recession after driving up our deficit to levels that will make you eyes pop if they have not already. The CBO screwed up, the liberals screwed up, the voters screwed up, but in the end you get the government you deserve. When the average person I speak to can't even tell me who the first president was or even how many branches of government there is and then tell me they voted, I'm not surprised at what is happening. Stupidity leads to actions of stupidity and the consequences of being an idiot can have far reaching effects. Get a bunch of idiots in a herd, incapable of thinking for themselves, and then you get what we now have - people who will look you straight in the eye and tell you we don't have a debt problem because they know they have a 50-50 chance of telling that to an idiot who will believe whatever they say because they have a D after their name. Meanwhile 16 trillion dollars does not ever register with these people.....but it will.

So keep your revisionist history to yourself. All politicians are a$$wipes in my book except for a very few, one of which I get to meet this Friday - Senator Cruz. And when the sh*t hits the fan, even the low information voters will start to pay attention and the libs are screwed. In the end, they were their own worse enemy. They overreached, and now the golden rule of politics has been broken - NEVER, EVER pass something that will hit the poor and the middle class in the pocket book. Nothing motivates someone to move their low information voter tendencies over to the other side or to actually take some time to learn a few facts.

That time is coming very, very soon.

ObamaCare Continues to Unravel

Learn to think for yourself and quit parroting a bunch of people who call themselves Journalists. There are no Journalists today. There are only ideological hacks.

 

[skofan]

im not running away from the discussion of obamacare, i just dont want to talk to you.
your agressive, one tracked, teaparty, fox trusting, attitude tells me that you are the sort of person that stands to reason that so many people have prejudice about america.
and bloody fucking stop calling me an uninformed voter listening to mainstream media. im a very well informed voter, with a huge distrust towards the mainstream media, who's even relatively aware what's happening in the political world in a country a quarter of the way around the globe.
now open your friggin eyes, both litterally (it says location: scandinavia right up there^), and metaphorically. at the same time, stop asking others to think for themselves, you obviously arent willing to listen to reason from others, and use that to draw your own conclusions.
im guessing you wouldnt believe me if i told you that the rest of the western world, except usa have public healthcare, and that it works just as well as the american system, with the only difference being that everyone gets treated equally no matter how much money they have. oh and that it doesnt cost anywhere near as much to treat a person, because even a lot of poor countries can do it as effective as america. countries with what you would call "socialist" governments.
anyway, thanks for reminding me to read a persons other posts before answering their threads, and have a nice life.

 

[james2012]

No, I am not Tea Party. Used to be, then they annoyed me. I was banned from the Tea Party Patriots group. I also don't trust any news source, but if I get multiple hits from multiple news outlets then I take note. I am aware that small minds think Fox News is biased, but they no longer are. Only Hannity is really biased to one side and the others are squishy morons. Also, I don't always believe Hannity and think he is a GOP water carrier.

I think for myself thank you very much. I don't let others define me and I pay attention to facts, not opinions. Cold, hard data is what impresses me.

Facts...it's what Comrades ignore.

And again your statement about healthcare is BS except in two countries (Germany - where hard work and intelligence is admired) and Switzerland (where the immigration policy is so strict that they don't have the problem we do with covering Undocumented Democrats). I have relatives in Canada, Great Britain, and Estonia and your statement does not bear up to scrutiny in those countries. Look at the data about mortality rates and note something that most low information voters here are unaware of....it includes gun related deaths. If our system was so bad why do I have relative from all three of the above countries have me research doctors here in the states they can come to visit to get the best care when they are really sick? Explain me that one.

And why do politicians from all over the world come here on their own country's taxpayer dime to get treatments - the most recent example that comes to mind is a Canadian politician with heart disease.

And you obviously have not been following Great Britain's latest NHS scandal where nurses were screwing around with patients by placing food just out of their reach and allowing them to slowly starve. Google it. It's true and raising a big stink over there. Or how about herceptin? CURES aggressive breast cancer but thousands of British females had to die as a lawsuit made its way through the system over a decade before the courts forced it to be covered. The NHS director had a hissy fit and stated that other coverage would have to be rolled back and people would suffer because of the ruling. This is the healthcare system Obama says he wants to emulate.

And don't forget the widespread lack of space. I still have the picture of the older lady in a frigging broom closet in Britain and gurneys lining the hall that in the end were the rooms for the patients. No privacy at all.

Give me a f*cking break. We had the best healthcare in the world. Now we are about to have about the worse. Try taking a Canadian style system or British system and implement it not on 30 million people but over 350 million people and throw in a bunch of Undocumented Democrats (illegal immigrants) and this is going to collapse under its own weight. The writing is already on the wall and Obama is losing support in both Chambers.

And you want to prove to me you are informed. Let's get it on. Tell me what you know about the Constitution, the Federalist papers, and what is wrong with where we are today. First homework assignment after doing that is to answer the following question: does the U.S. Supreme Court have the constitutional power to judicial review? Hint: Marbury vs. Madison.

You don't know Jack. If you did, we would not be having this conversation.

 

[Mike Oxbig]

I am aware that small minds think Fox News is biased, but they no longer are.

lol

 

[james2012]

lol

LOL back. Question: Which news station called the recent Chick-fil-a day where everyone went to support their stance against SSM as a "national day of intolerance".

Google it. When you are done, we will continue with other examples. MSN is extraordinarily biased. Fox News is biased with Hannity. The rest are falling all over themselves to give both sides of the story to the point where it sickens me. They used to be the great balance against CNN and MSNBC. Now most of them are just squishy hacks. I don't watch them anymore.

So after your first assignment there will be another.

 

[james2012]

Pew Research Finds Opinion Dominates MSNBC More Than Fox News - Slashdot

And by a HUGE margin. CNN looks to be in the middle closer to Fox News. However I question the metrics and CNN's bias is more subtle and only becomes clear to the informed. I would put CNN and Fox News on par with each other, but the data shows they are pretty close even with the current metrics. What they don't catch is how "factual reporting" can have hidden agendas peaking from behind the presentation and wording. On Fox News Hannity is clearly biased to conservatism but in my opinion not enough. On CNN Wold Blitzer is very biased for liberalism but is a master at hiding it, giving the appearance of balanced reporting.

 

[Kamala]

No, I am not Tea Party. Used to be, then they annoyed me. I was banned from the Tea Party Patriots group. I also don't trust any news source, but if I get multiple hits from multiple news outlets then I take note. I am aware that small minds think Fox News is biased, but they no longer are. Only Hannity is really biased to one side and the others are squishy morons. Also, I don't always believe Hannity and think he is a GOP water carrier.

I think for myself thank you very much. I don't let others define me and I pay attention to facts, not opinions. Cold, hard data is what impresses me.

Facts...it's what Comrades ignore.

And again your statement about healthcare is BS except in two countries (Germany - where hard work and intelligence is admired) and Switzerland (where the immigration policy is so strict that they don't have the problem we do with covering Undocumented Democrats). I have relatives in Canada, Great Britain, and Estonia and your statement does not bear up to scrutiny in those countries. Look at the data about mortality rates and note something that most low information voters here are unaware of....it includes gun related deaths. If our system was so bad why do I have relative from all three of the above countries have me research doctors here in the states they can come to visit to get the best care when they are really sick? Explain me that one.

And why do politicians from all over the world come here on their own country's taxpayer dime to get treatments - the most recent example that comes to mind is a Canadian politician with heart disease.

And you obviously have not been following Great Britain's latest NHS scandal where nurses were screwing around with patients by placing food just out of their reach and allowing them to slowly starve. Google it. It's true and raising a big stink over there. Or how about herceptin? CURES aggressive breast cancer but thousands of British females had to die as a lawsuit made its way through the system over a decade before the courts forced it to be covered. The NHS director had a hissy fit and stated that other coverage would have to be rolled back and people would suffer because of the ruling. This is the healthcare system Obama says he wants to emulate.

And don't forget the widespread lack of space. I still have the picture of the older lady in a frigging broom closet in Britain and gurneys lining the hall that in the end were the rooms for the patients. No privacy at all.

Give me a f*cking break. We had the best healthcare in the world. Now we are about to have about the worse. Try taking a Canadian style system or British system and implement it not on 30 million people but over 350 million people and throw in a bunch of Undocumented Democrats (illegal immigrants) and this is going to collapse under its own weight. The writing is already on the wall and Obama is losing support in both Chambers.

And you want to prove to me you are informed. Let's get it on. Tell me what you know about the Constitution, the Federalist papers, and what is wrong with where we are today. First homework assignment after doing that is to answer the following question: does the U.S. Supreme Court have the constitutional power to judicial review? Hint: Marbury vs. Madison.

You don't know Jack. If you did, we would not be having this conversation.

Bottom line is your system is the best for those that can afford it, and those that don't develop a long term illness. For everybody else it is a constant worry, or a nightmare that a person might actually go bankrupt trying to cover medical bills. So much so that Americans crossing into Canada for free medical care has been and still is putting tremendous strain on our already overburdened system. If the old system was so great there would not be busloads of American seniors crossing the border into canada daily to but the prescription meds they cannot afford in America.

The old system had the highest costs of any nation on earth, and it is the most profitable business in America...... Even more so then the oil or defense industries.
Free enterprise is great, but when your health comes down to a company who can save money by limiting your treatment there is a limit to where free enterprise hurts the nation as a whole.

 

[james2012]

Bottom line is your system is the best for those that can afford it, and those that don't develop a long term illness. For everybody else it is a constant worry, or a nightmare that a person might actually go bankrupt trying to cover medical bills. So much so that Americans crossing into Canada for free medical care has been and still is putting tremendous strain on our already overburdened system. If the old system was so great there would not be busloads of American seniors crossing the border into canada daily to but the prescription meds they cannot afford in America.

The old system had the highest costs of any nation on earth, and it is the most profitable business in America...... Even more so then the oil or defense industries.
Free enterprise is great, but when your health comes down to a company who can save money by limiting your treatment there is a limit to where free enterprise hurts the nation as a whole.

Which is why one simple thing needed to happen. Instead of the bill and what is not 20,000 pages of regulations (clocking in at 7ft) you just allow insurance to be purchased over state lines and watch those prices fall, fall, fall. But noooo, idiots who just think capitalism is eviiiiillll decided to screw up the best system in the world. How screwed up?

Democrats are freaking out now

Why? Votes - the ones they are going to lose in 2014. ObamaCare is on life support. It will be gutted. It is over.

Now someone like C.L. Gray (an MD) from Physicians for Reform had a way to do all this just as stated above AND cover the rest for 100 billion a year. Physicans for Reform had a great, common sense plan. But liberals don't believe in common sense. They believe in controlling your life down to the tiniest little detail. You see, to a liberal politician you are too dumb to think for yourself. And for a regular liberal - well your just the sheep they are looking for to keep them in power.

Comrades loving Comrades...it's the new way.

 

[Kamala]

Which is why one simple thing needed to happen. Instead of the bill and what is not 20,000 pages of regulations (clocking in at 7ft) you just allow insurance to be purchased over state lines and watch those prices fall, fall, fall. But noooo, idiots who just think capitalism is eviiiiillll decided to screw up the best system in the world. How screwed up?

Democrats are freaking out now

Why? Votes - the ones they are going to lose in 2014. ObamaCare is on life support. It will be gutted. It is over.

Now someone like C.L. Gray (an MD) from Physicians for Reform had a way to do all this just as stated above AND cover the rest for 100 billion a year. Physicans for Reform had a great, common sense plan. But liberals don't believe in common sense. They believe in controlling your life down to the tiniest little detail. You see, to a liberal politician you are too dumb to think for yourself. And for a regular liberal - well your just the sheep they are looking for to keep them in power.

Comrades loving Comrades...it's the new way.

I don't know anything about buying insurance out of state, I don't know why that would be illegal?

 

[james2012]

I don't know anything about buying insurance out of state, I don't know why that would be illegal?

Right now it is. You can't buy health insurance across state lines. That would have solved the problem of cost right there with no need to add a huge bureaucracy with 7ft of regulations when the papers are stacked up (and that is not the bill - just the new regulations coming out of HHS).

 

[DieYoungStrong]

I'm a small business guy. Not rich by any means. A middle-class small business guy like 90% of other small biz owners. If you saw the size of the binders that the gov't sent employers, full of regulations, etc. that we need to follow, you would be sick/amazed. We had a nice health-care plan here since 1995, but over the past 2 years we've had to move to "cheaper" plans - myself included. Higher deductibles, and less dental, etc. Otherwise, we would have had to close shop. This plan is making costs skyrocket - which I think is the goal. At this rate, it will everntually become unsustainable for me to keep a health care option, and it will become more cost effective for me to just pay the penalty for not offering insurance. This will happen everywhere. Then there will people with pitchforks wanting the "public option".

 

[Kamala]

Right now it is. You can't buy health insurance across state lines. That would have solved the problem of cost right there with no need to add a huge bureaucracy with 7ft of regulations when the papers are stacked up (and that is not the bill - just the new regulations coming out of HHS).

So in the interest of free enterprise, and letting the markets regulate themselves through competition, why has no one ever addressed this?
A person would think that when the costs are already the worlds highest, and the healthcare industry is the nations most profitable, something so obvious would be at the forefront of any debate on how to lower costs.

 

[james2012]

So in the interest of free enterprise, and letting the markets regulate themselves through competition, why has no one ever addressed this?
A person would think that when the costs are already the worlds highest, and the healthcare industry is the nations most profitable, something so obvious would be at the forefront of any debate on how to lower costs.

And you have just described the problem with both parties in DC. Liberals want socialized healthcare and RINOs want Fascist healthcare (companies backed by government - the definition of Fascism and not a derogatory term but rather a descriptive term in this case). Are you telling me your surprised that DC seems incapable of getting it right? I have dealt with these idiots before. They don't care about you or me. They care about themselves. It's Hollywood for ugly people. The Egos are amazing. If the solution is simple but won't line the pockets of special interests groups that fill their coffers, politicians have no interest in it. Translation: we're all screwed.

And ObamaCare bends the cost curve up! It is going to cost us more than the system before and it won't even cover the people it is supposed to. But let Max Baucus, one of the main architects of the bill explain it:

Top Dem Sen. Baucus warns of 'train wreck' for Obama health law | Fox News

 

[james2012]

And you have just described the problem with both parties in DC. Liberals want socialized healthcare and RINOs want Fascist healthcare (companies backed by government - the definition of Fascism and not a derogatory term but rather a descriptive term in this case). Are you telling me your surprised that DC seems incapable of getting it right? I have dealt with these idiots before. They don't care about you or me. They care about themselves. It's Hollywood for ugly people. The Egos are amazing. If the solution is simple but won't line the pockets of special interests groups that fill their coffers, politicians have no interest in it. Translation: we're all screwed.

And ObamaCare bends the cost curve up! It is going to cost us more than the system before and it won't even cover the people it is supposed to. But let Max Baucus, one of the main architects of the bill explain it:

Top Dem Sen. Baucus warns of 'train wreck' for Obama health law | Fox News

And before stating that the holdout states for expanding Medicare need to get on board, don't even go there. There is a classic bait and switch going on here. Get the states hooked on federal money and then pull it back. The law is clear, government will subsidize states each year for the expansion but slowly pull back over time until the state is entirely responsible for funding the expansion. So getting 20 billion now (for TX) sounds great, but when you have to come up with it later it will crater your states economy forcing draconian taxes. People are not fleeing California and New York in record numbers because taxes are low. This law is attempting to make every state like CA, and as anyone knows, CA is going broke - and fast. So those states not taking the bait are doing the smart thing.

 

[james2012]

I'm a small business guy. Not rich by any means. A middle-class small business guy like 90% of other small biz owners. If you saw the size of the binders that the gov't sent employers, full of regulations, etc. that we need to follow, you would be sick/amazed. We had a nice health-care plan here since 1995, but over the past 2 years we've had to move to "cheaper" plans - myself included. Higher deductibles, and less dental, etc. Otherwise, we would have had to close shop. This plan is making costs skyrocket - which I think is the goal. At this rate, it will everntually become unsustainable for me to keep a health care option, and it will become more cost effective for me to just pay the penalty for not offering insurance. This will happen everywhere. Then there will people with pitchforks wanting the "public option".

Con't worry DYS, this law is going to collapse under its own weight. It costs more, provides less coverage, and does not cover those it intends to cover - the uninsured - in the numbers is says it will. That is what you get when you try to regulate 1/6 of our economy - a disaster. This one is going to go down in the history books as one of the biggest mistakes ever made and the recovery when it goes away because nobody can afford it - let alone understand it - will go down as one of the best things to happen to this country.

What half these idiots don't understand is that young people are going to bear the brunt of this, small business is cutting back hours so they don't have to buy the insurance OR are opting to pay the penalty for not covering because IT IS CHEAPER! What kind of idiots wrote this law?! Oh right....liberals.

So the job creation engine of this country is getting screwed and when small business start cutting back hours, laying off people, or shutting their doors, then the sheep will take notice. Until then, let them live in la la land until reality teaches them some important life lessons.

I already posted how this is going to screw the young pretty damn hard here: https://thinksteroids.com/community/threads/134334562

 

[zkt]

The thing that is really falling apart at the seams is the republican party. And rightly so I may add. [}]