Pissed

[Tyler81]

I dont understand how you think you aren't gaining mass? You look a bit fat dude. Lol

No offense but i think you are ok. Infact i would do a cutting program to rip up.

 

[m_ob]

I was talking about the second pic you posted on its own on this page(blue shirt 2nd pic). IMO,id clean up the diet as best you can, eliminate dairy and grains...I do think in your case the ultra high trt dose for so long has messed w your thyroid to an extent.I think hcg was probably causing you to produce much more T than you thought it was and you probably at some point had E2 take over.. Now its gonna take some time to get back to normal, you kinda just have to accept that at this point. Im baffled as to how any doctor thought it was ok for your levels to remain so high for so long without intervening....

I've got adex and keep E2 under control. How can you tell that from a pic where I'm wearing a shirt?

 

[m_ob]

I have to say the last picture in the black shirt I wouldn't even think you work out....well not your arms anyway.

Exactly, which is fucking bull shit because I haven't switched a single thing up. Something's up and don't even say "it's just the tan.", because neither of these were taken in the Summer, both in the middle of winter.

 

[bax]

Actually if you were flexing in the second pic as well it'd probably look pretty similar.. Just saying.

 

[m_ob]

Actually if you were flexing in the second pic as well it'd probably look pretty similar.. Just saying.

Here then

 

[idmd]

NOT busting balls here....I promise....but how hard are you working at the gym? Did you do a cycle? Can't remember.

 

[m_ob]

NOT busting balls here....I promise....but how hard are you working at the gym? Did you do a cycle? Can't remember.

No offense taken either way. I wouldn't put the pics up here if I didn't WANT constructive criticism, or just plain brutal criticism either. I never cycled though. The before pics were taken from when I was on androgel, and this is when I achieved much of my gains. I'm starting to think the only thing I can do to get back to that place is to cycle though. EVERYTHING is literally the same. If I were an experiment, the only variable would be the type of TRT used.
I eat the same exact way as I did before: lots of good carbs (oatmeal, brown rice, whole wheat breads, potatoes, cereal, etc. lots of good fats (fish, pb, olive oil) and protein with pretty much every meal (beef, chicken, fish, crab meat, etc.) Yes I make regular meals, and always have. Tacos, hamburgers, pasta, etc. I do what I can to eat clean, rarely eat out.
My workouts are pretty much the same:
3 day split

Day 1: Chest and tris
Bench: 1 set of 8-12, add weight, 1 set of 6-8, add weight, 1 set of 4-6 add weight, max

Pec flies: 3x8
Dips: till fatigue, 3 sets
skull crushers: 3x8
tricep pulleys: 3x8
decline push-ups: till fatigue, 3 sets
sit-ups: 3 sets of 50

Day 2: Back and Bi
Bent row: 3x8-12
Dead lift: 2x12
Lawn mowers: 3x8
pull-ups: till fatigue, 3 sets
curls: 3x8-12
lat pulls: 3x8-12
pulley pulldown: 3x8-12
decline ab crunch: 3x50

Day 3: Legs, forearms, delts
Squat: 1 set 8-12, add weight, 1 set 8-12, add weight, 1 set 9 reps, add weight, etc..
Lunges: 3x12
Reverse curls: 3x8
forearm curl: 3x50
Military press: 3x8-12
3 way ankle: 3x12
abs..etc

Its been pretty consistant for a few years now. There is something else going on..I think? I don't know. I know this just messes with me though. I enjoyed being bigger, or I guess enjoyed what it got me.

 

[idmd]

I'm no expert but that seems like a lot of volume for not a whole lot of results. You look good and fit but your arms and shoulders seem undeveloped relative to your chest....especially your triceps. Could you be over training?

I know we're all different genetically and the pics aren't the best for comparison but my arms are at least double the size of yours. For triceps I'm literally just working them during my benching (decent weight 310 in sets of 3x6 and doing triceps pull downs (130 lbs in sets of 3x12). Done. Biceps I'm doing 60 lb dumbbell curls 3x8. Bicep machine I through two 45 lb plates on do 3x12 and done. In the past year I've gone from curling 25 lb dumbbells to 60lb and from 50lb triceps pull downs to 130 lbs. I think sometimes less is more.

 

[bax]

You basically WERE on a cycle tho between your androgel and hcg.. I remember you saying you pretty much lived in supra physiologic land for over a year. That has consequences. Your doctor is an idiot for letting your T ride so high for so long. And it affects everyone differently. It may have jacked your thyroid a bit too. Like I said now you have to get on a normal try dose, maybe keep checking your thyroid and be patient. Or go ahead and start injecting horse steroids(Eq). Which would just fuck u up worse in the long run... I think you could've probably gotten away w hcg only or androgel only.. Really only your dr is to blame here in my opinion. This is all just my opinion and you can take it or leave it. Also dont be offended but your concern w your physique is a tad concerning. None of your pics look THAT different. Stop worrying and looking in the mirror, straighten your try out and give it time. Eat well and monitor thyroid, that's my 2 cents.

 

[bax]

And yes idmd has a point too.. Start switching your routine up a little. That workout is a lot of volume especially rep wise. Start working in lower rep range and go heavier weights and shorter workouts. Mix in some sprints on alternate days for legs. You could just be overtraining which will cause exactly what you r experiencing. Sometimes the simplest answer is right.

 

[bax]

And no matter what workout you're doing, if you've been doing the same thing for years, it just ain't gonna work anymore. The body adapts quickly. I say take a few weeks off and rest and forget about your body. This in itself could work wonders. Then go back fresh at a more strength based routine like a 5x5 split.

 

[m_ob]

Alright, alright, thanks guys. I really do mean it. I've been so worried at getting to the bottom of this that I may have forgotten which priority needs to remain number one, and that is health. I'm only 19, I've got a lot of life left to figure this all out I guess. I'll stay on the normal dose, see if my thyroid comes back a little higher and stay away from any sort of cycle. Its hard to tell from the pictures I know, but I've lost at least 4 inches on my arms, a fair amount around the chest, and my legs are nothing compared to what they used to be. Keep in mind that I was asked multiple times by the guys who would occasionally spot me and lift on certain days with me if I was on anything special and if so, could I hook them up. I'd sit there all smug, grin and say "Nope, all natural." when I knew damn well I had a huge advantage over all of them. Its not like your average guy is walking around with T in the 1500s, eating clean and lifting hard. It just worked perfectly to my advantage.

 

[m_ob]

I just got thick and lean at the same time. Those two together made me feel and look great and I got addicted to that feeling I guess.

 

[idmd]

I'll also say my 3 day cycle revolves around squats, dead lifts and bench. All most all other lifts are secondary to these just to squeeze out a little more muscle fiber damage. That means I lift heavy enough with these three basic lifts that I'm 80% used up by the end.

I've been doing this for 5 weeks and have seen dramatic changes in body composition. I feel more balanced, I've lost 8 lbs but have definitely put on more muscle. Also I was at plateau with things like my curl weight for months....couldn't go heavier than 50lb dumbbells and I've gone up 10lbs (with perfect form) in 5 weeks. I've added 15lbs to my triceps pull down.

My lifting takes me on average 30 mins not including cardio and I'm getting better results. Not sure if its because these lifts release more GH or what but less time and more results makes me happy.

I moved to this after a lot of reading and talking to two guys at the gym who workout together and are monsters. They're spending 45 mins in the gym per day focusing on those lifts and big guys.

 

[m_ob]

As far as my appetite goes, I take zinc already, but if I were to "prime" my HCL in the morning and starting mixing B12 in with my test injections, I would see a significant increase in appetite?

I'm seriously thinking about doing this for awhile.

 

[chemman]

m_ob:

Another thing to consider is genetics. What does your father look like? How about your mom? Athletic when younger, etc? How were their physiques at your age? My dad is pretty lanky and does not "look" muscular. But he is pretty strong for his age. My mom has always carried a little bit too much fat, and I take after her in that regard. I am like my father in that I will always be kinda lanky and never have bulging muscles...but I am pretty strong. You cannot escape your genetics. It's almost laughable to me because my dad does not much visible bicep muscle, and my arms look identical to his. I can be plenty strong but not show much bicep at all.

A little while back when I was your age [Fuck I am feeling a tad old now ] I did not look like a lifter at all, but I actually could bench press more weight than I can now. But overall I have more muscle now and probably more overall strength due to TRT and more time for development. I'll try to fig up a pic of me at 20-21 when I was actually in much better health than now.

My point is that I think that men really continue to develop physically until they are into their late 20s. You may come around in time as you make the gradual transition from boy to man.

What you experienced at the beginning of TRT was likely abnormal due to your supraphysiological levels. Now on regular ol' TRT, it's time to come back down to reality. Take a look around at guys walking around your campus. Look at the average dudes working out in the gym. Do you honestly look and feel small and weak compared to them?

How do you feel overall besides this muscle stuff?

 

[idmd]

m_ob:

Another thing to consider is genetics. What does your father look like? How about your mom? Athletic when younger, etc? How were their physiques at your age? My dad is pretty lanky and does not "look" muscular. But he is pretty strong for his age. My mom has always carried a little bit too much fat, and I take after her in that regard. I am like my father in that I will always be kinda lanky and never have bulging muscles...but I am pretty strong. You cannot escape your genetics. It's almost laughable to me because my dad does not much visible bicep muscle, and my arms look identical to his. I can be plenty strong but not show much bicep at all.

A little while back when I was your age [Fuck I am feeling a tad old now ] I did not look like a lifter at all, but I actually could bench press more weight than I can now. But overall I have more muscle now and probably more overall strength due to TRT and more time for development. I'll try to fig up a pic of me at 20-21 when I was actually in much better health than now.

My point is that I think that men really continue to develop physically until they are into their late 20s. You may come around in time as you make the gradual transition from boy to man.

What you experienced at the beginning of TRT was likely abnormal due to your supraphysiological levels. Now on regular ol' TRT, it's time to come back down to reality. Take a look around at guys walking around your campus. Look at the average dudes working out in the gym. Do you honestly look and feel small and weak compared to them?

How do you feel overall besides this muscle stuff?

My father was 5'10" and 175lbs and my mom is 5'7" 150 lbs. I'm 6'5" 282lbs and built unlike either parent. My brother is 6'3" and 210lbs. My sister is 5'4" and probably close to 400lbs.

There's lots of shit in our genes....too much to look at it as simply as you suggest.

 

[m_ob]

Well my dad's a little taller than me, but stocky and my mom's a lot shorter than me but a petite/solid slightly overweight look I suppose. I don't know. In regards to my size in comparison to other guys, I guess you could say I'm average, but average isn't what I'm looking for after owning the physique I did for over a year. I'm probably going to have to face the facts though, that without some sort of unhealthy addition, I will just have to slowly transition to where I need to be. Apart from that, I don't feel as energetic as I have before. I'm sluggish in the gym and I lack that drive that I had before. I'm thinking IM B-12 might help with some of that as well?

 

[chemman]

Well my dad's a little taller than me, but stocky and my mom's a lot shorter than me but a petite/solid slightly overweight look I suppose. I don't know. In regards to my size in comparison to other guys, I guess you could say I'm average, but average isn't what I'm looking for after owning the physique I did for over a year. I'm probably going to have to face the facts though, that without some sort of unhealthy addition, I will just have to slowly transition to where I need to be. Apart from that, I don't feel as energetic as I have before. I'm sluggish in the gym and I lack that drive that I had before. I'm thinking IM B-12 might help with some of that as well?

Welp, you're in college now. Are you staying out late and drinking at all? Are you in a cold/dark climate during the winter? That can slow your ass down for sure. Feeling down at all?

I guess you need to choose between...

(1.) Average physique and overall good health

-and-

(2.) Above average physique and the risks associated with maintaining said physique.

This is only my opinion, but I'm not sure that you have enough life experience yet to comfortably go along with option # 2. Priorities change over time.

 

[m_ob]

Welp, you're in college now. Are you staying out late and drinking at all? Are you in a cold/dark climate during the winter? That can slow your ass down for sure. Feeling down at all?

I guess you need to choose between...

(1.) Average physique and overall good health

-and-

(2.) Above average physique and the risks associated with maintaining said physique.

This is only my opinion, but I'm not sure that you have enough life experience yet to comfortably go along with option # 2. Priorities change over time.

I haven't drinken any kind of alcohol for a little over a year, and this winter's been cold but the sun still shines every couple of days.

I figured the day would come, but I didn't know it'd be so soon. Right now, it makes more sense to just choose an average physique accompanied by health, but the problem is that I don't even know if I am healthy? If I keep losing weight like this I can only assume that I'm not