Stopping Testosterone Replacement?

[Johnny Trackmarks]

My doctor put me on a shot of 100 mg testosterone cypionate every week recently. The back story is I am 40 yrs old with a history of thyroid disorder (I take Synthroid). My testosterone levels have been between 145 and 331 for about 2 years (range: 348-1197).

I've read there is no turning back once you start testosterone injections. I am having some second thoughts. What would happen if I were to stop the shots? Is there any other way of dealing with this? My doctor says the creams do no work. Could I ramp up my test levels with supplements? Is a levels in the 300s that out of range for a 40 year old?

 

[cvictorg]

My doctor put me on a shot of 100 mg testosterone cypionate every week recently. The back story is I am 40 yrs old with a history of thyroid disorder (I take Synthroid). My testosterone levels have been between 145 and 331 for about 2 years (range: 348-1197).

I've read there is no turning back once you start testosterone injections. I am having some second thoughts. What would happen if I were to stop the shots? Is there any other way of dealing with this? My doctor says the creams do no work. Could I ramp up my test levels with supplements? Is a levels in the 300s that out of range for a 40 year old?

when your levels were in the 300's how did you feel?

 

[Excallibro]

My doctor put me on a shot of 100 mg testosterone cypionate every week recently. The back story is I am 40 yrs old with a history of thyroid disorder (I take Synthroid). My testosterone levels have been between 145 and 331 for about 2 years (range: 348-1197).

I've read there is no turning back once you start testosterone injections. I am having some second thoughts. What would happen if I were to stop the shots? Is there any other way of dealing with this? My doctor says the creams do no work. Could I ramp up my test levels with supplements? Is a levels in the 300s that out of range for a 40 year old?

Second thoughts? You can't be serious if it's helping you. At that level of T. added, you're not going to destabilize your hormonal feedback, much.

Still, you can switch to HCG and come down slowly off of that, but you'll return to your former state of whatever it was you were trying to fix.

I've taken vacations before, but once you do, you may suddenly find you have a reference point of your former misery.

I would never take T. alone, btw. I would combine HCG, or if the doc is agreeable, just do the HCG alone.

At your age, you don't have much to lose, but potentially everything to gain.

 

[Johnny Trackmarks]

At 300 or so main symptom was a LOT of Anxiety. It's hard to describe. I was not myself. 3 days after the first shot I felt fine. The problem was my libido was in the toilet. It was OK before, probably could have used some improvement, after all, I'm 40 and not 19. Now it's kaput. It is maybe 20% of pre shot libido. I'm delighted to not be super anxious but miss the sex. Does it just take a while to ramp up?

Some labs from pre injection:
Testosterone, Total LC/MS: 331ng/dL (348-1197)
Free Testosterone: 8.6pg/mL (6.8-21.5)
TSH: 2.3 uIU/mL (.45-4.5)
LH: 4.6 mIU/mL (1.7-8.6)
FSH: 4.0 mIU/mL (1.5-12.4)
Prolactin: 7.3 ng/mL (4.0-15.2)

I should have new labs in a week.

 

[Millard]

At 300 or so main symptom was a LOT of Anxiety. It's hard to describe. I was not myself. 3 days after the first shot I felt fine. The problem was my libido was in the toilet. It was OK before, probably could have used some improvement, after all, I'm 40 and not 19. Now it's kaput. It is maybe 20% of pre shot libido. I'm delighted to not be super anxious but miss the sex. Does it just take a while to ramp up?

This sounds odd.

Before TRT, anxiety was HIGH and libido OK

On TRT, anxiety was LOW and libido LOW?

 

[Johnny Trackmarks]

Believe me it it he opposite of what I expected. I am curious if the testosterone cypionate needs to "build up" in my system before it starts working. I am only two shots in.

Does TRT typically increase anxiety? I was told the opposite by my doctor. BTW, I have consulted several doctors about this and all seem to have no clue about TRT therapy - even so called experts.

 

[keriheat]

At 300 or so main symptom was a LOT of Anxiety. It's hard to describe. I was not myself. 3 days after the first shot I felt fine. The problem was my libido was in the toilet. It was OK before, probably could have used some improvement, after all, I'm 40 and not 19. Now it's kaput. It is maybe 20% of pre shot libido. I'm delighted to not be super anxious but miss the sex. Does it just take a while to ramp up?

Some labs from pre injection:
Testosterone, Total LC/MS: 331ng/dL (348-1197)
Free Testosterone: 8.6pg/mL (6.8-21.5)
TSH: 2.3 uIU/mL (.45-4.5)
LH: 4.6 mIU/mL (1.7-8.6)
FSH: 4.0 mIU/mL (1.5-12.4)
Prolactin: 7.3 ng/mL (4.0-15.2)

I should have new labs in a week.

Johnny, does your age (40) bother you more then some of the other numbers you have quoted? You have made 2 posts and mentioned your age 40 in both of them.

Age, is a number, just like Test, E2, etc. and many times, one has nothing to do with the other. I didn't have any libido problems or ED until I hit 60. I thought I would never have an ED problem. Well...surprise!!

You just have to deal with it, but dont ever think just cause your 40 that maybe you should have ED or that your old.

Okay, about ramping up. Everybody is different and the finding the "sweet spot" takes some trial and error and dosage manipulation...and patience.

 

[chronological]

Believe me it it he opposite of what I expected. I am curious if the testosterone cypionate needs to "build up" in my system before it starts working. I am only two shots in.

This is a useful paper to set your expectations as to how long it will take to notice effects.

Onset of effects of testosterone treatment ... [Eur J Endocrinol. 2011] - PubMed - NCBI

And it's easy to infer from:

a. It takes 3+ weeks, and maybe a few months, before effects are felt
b. Shots are typically given more frequently than every three weeks

that whether or not it takes time for the levels to "build up" (I suspect that since the time is measured in days, not weeks, the answer is effectively "no"), the overall effect is *as if* it takes time to build up. So its not like your T level will start low with the first shot, then get higher with the next, and so on. It'll go high, then drop, then high again, then drop, and so on. But the effects on your body and brain will take multiple shots to be observed.

So if you're seeing nothing after two shots, that's normal.

 

[bigmitch]

Chrono no offense but you have a thread seeking advice now you are giving it?

 

[Michael Scally MD]

This is a useful paper to set your expectations as to how long it will take to notice effects.

Onset of effects of testosterone treatment ... [Eur J Endocrinol. 2011] - PubMed - NCBI

And it's easy to infer from:

a. It takes 3+ weeks, and maybe a few months, before effects are felt
b. Shots are typically given more frequently than every three weeks

that whether or not it takes time for the levels to "build up" (I suspect that since the time is measured in days, not weeks, the answer is effectively "no"), the overall effect is *as if* it takes time to build up. So its not like your T level will start low with the first shot, then get higher with the next, and so on. It'll go high, then drop, then high again, then drop, and so on. But the effects on your body and brain will take multiple shots to be observed.

So if you're seeing nothing after two shots, that's normal.

Chrono no offense but you have a thread seeking advice now you are giving it?

He took it from my post to him on his thread! https://thinksteroids.com/community/posts/802991

However, it is good information. As far as his knowledge and understanding, it is a "work in progress."

 

[chronological]

Chrono no offense but you have a thread seeking advice now you are giving it?

That's a bit of a reverse argument from authority, no? If you have a criticism of what I said, go for it. But the implied criticism based on who I am is really just an ad hominem (although I doubt you intended it like that).

I am the world's expert on *my own experience* so I can offer that without fear of contradiction. I'm also scientifically trained, so I can spot some bad science when I see it.

Finally, I learn *very* fast ;-)

 

[mac111]

Second thoughts? You can't be serious if it's helping you. At that level of T. added, you're not going to destabilize your hormonal feedback, much.

Still, you can switch to HCG and come down slowly off of that, but you'll return to your former state of whatever it was you were trying to fix.

I've taken vacations before, but once you do, you may suddenly find you have a reference point of your former misery.

I would never take T. alone, btw. I would combine HCG, or if the doc is agreeable, just do the HCG alone.

At your age, you don't have much to lose, but potentially everything to gain.

i was under the impression he would be shut down from natty production, since once the body detects extra supply it switches off its own

 

[chronological]

He took it from my post to him on his thread! https://thinksteroids.com/community/posts/802991

To be fair, I'd already seen it, having been referred to it by someone on another board.[1]

However, it is good information. As far as his knowledge and understanding, it is a "work in progress."

Absolutely (to the "work in progress"). If I tell you about my experience, you can take that to the bank. If I refer to someone who knows what they are talking about, ditto. And if I point out that if p implies q, and p, then q, then you're probably safe no matter what p and q are. Everything else you should ignore for the folly and ramblings that it probably is

[1] I came to this board from that one because apart from that paper, there was little or no tangible advice on offer. Glad I came here -- Im learning a lot more. Thanks all.

 

[Michael Scally MD]

i was under the impression he would be shut down from natty production, since once the body detects extra supply it switches off its own

You are basically correct. As a corollary, the baseline (pre) T has NO effect on the serum T level during TRT.

And, there is NO such treatment as "tapering" to restore the HPTA. Also, hCG is HPTA suppressive. Except for possible infertility treatment, hCG monotherapy is a non-starter.

 

[mac111]

You are basically correct. As a corollary, the baseline (pre) T has NO effect on the serum T level during TRT.

And, there is NO such treatment as "tapering" to restore the HPTA. Also, hCG is HPTA suppressive. Except for possible infertility treatment, hCG monotherapy is a non-starter.

thats what i had gathered from my own research. its an all or nothing approach, an alien supply is an alien supply no matter the amount

 

[BBC3]

Johnny, the ANXIETY is the feelling of ESTROGEN ass raping you like some fukin cunt with a strapon...

Keri. Save the queerbait inquisition into age. The post looked normal to me. Not all of us can be fucking addonis till freakin 60/... SOrry, just save that shit. 40 IS a BIG one any way you slice it....

Johnny, does your age (40) bother you more then some of the other numbers you have quoted? You have made 2 posts and mentioned your age 40 in both of them.

Age, is a number, just like Test, E2, etc. and many times, one has nothing to do with the other. I didn't have any libido problems or ED until I hit 60. I thought I would never have an ED problem. Well...surprise!!

You just have to deal with it, but dont ever think just cause your 40 that maybe you should have ED or that your old.

Okay, about ramping up. Everybody is different and the finding the "sweet spot" takes some trial and error and dosage manipulation...and patience.

 

[Johnny Trackmarks]

That is exactly what I wanted to hear. Pubmed.gov is a great resource. Many thanks!

 

[keriheat]

Johnny, the ANXIETY is the feelling of ESTROGEN ass raping you like some fukin cunt with a strapon...

Keri. Save the queerbait inquisition into age. The post looked normal to me. Not all of us can be fucking addonis till freakin 60/... SOrry, just save that shit. 40 IS a BIG one any way you slice it....

40 is a BIG one! I got reading glasses the day I turned 40. I just thought I was supposed to have them at that age.

 

[namron67]

I am 77 and have been taking testosterone cyp. 200MG 1ml injections every 16 days since 2004 for hypogonadism. My last PSA was 4.27 and I went to a Urologist and had ultrasound and biopsy's taken. The results showed I have Prostatic Intraepithelial Neoplasia. I was told that I would have to quit taking the shots or risk cancer.
I am concerned with the side affects of quitting the shots and returning to low testosterone levels.
I am concerned that my life span will be shortened, I will develop Diabetes, Heart damage, and impaired Brain function, Muscle degradation, and Fatigue.
If this is the case, I wonder if I should continue the shots and if Cancer develops have the Prostrate removed .
I also have Hypothyroidism and take Leothyroxine.

 

[Millard]

I am 77 and have been taking testosterone cyp. 200MG 1ml injections every 16 days since 2004 for hypogonadism. My last PSA was 4.27 and I went to a Urologist and had ultrasound and biopsy's taken. The results showed I have Prostatic Intraepithelial Neoplasia. I was told that I would have to quit taking the shots or risk cancer.
I am concerned with the side affects of quitting the shots and returning to low testosterone levels.
I am concerned that my life span will be shortened, I will develop Diabetes, Heart damage, and impaired Brain function, Muscle degradation, and Fatigue.
If this is the case, I wonder if I should continue the shots and if Cancer develops have the Prostrate removed .
I also have Hypothyroidism and take Leothyroxine.

Here's a good article on TRT and prostate cancer:

https://thinksteroids.com/articles/prostate-cancer-steroids/

Also, :tiphat to Dr. Scally for sharing a link to Morganthaler's twitter account and several articles on the topic:

https://twitter.com/DrMorgentaler