Fluoroquinolone

I only took one 500mg Cipro tablet and its already outa my system so tho aware of the other risks, I'm not worried about them b/c I haven't had any other symptoms.

I just hope my tendons hold up, cuz tendonitis I can deal with, but where I'm at in life right now, I cannot afford an Achilles tendon injury, as it is mandatory for me to be on my foot most of the day.

When did your tendons (Achilles in particular) start getting better after drug discontinuation and what exercises are you able to do now w/o worrying?

My tendons hurt immediately after ingestion, then got better, then a month afterwords I had my true "severe" reaction, with very bad tendonitis and a handful of other adverse reactions. I am 50+ days since my last quinolone and I still cannot train the way I want.

Interestingly enough, my achilles don't bother me much at all. It's my knees, elbows, shoulders, and hands that bother me the most.
 
Let me know if you want my supplement list that seems to be helping my recovery.

It couldn't hurt, and I'd appreciate it! Just post or PM, plz! :)

Went back to the dr. office today and it was a different doc I saw this time, but pretty much the same kinda "shuffle 'em in & out as quik as possible" deals! :mad:

Anyway, he said take a week off from exercising plus he wrote me a prescription for Diclofenac but I doubt I will even fill it. He also said if its gonna rupture, its gonna rupture no matr wat, WAT A FUKN JOKE! :( U think the med wud actually help cuz from what I've heard the Achilles tendon doesn't even really becum inflammed like they thot and that's y they call it "Achilles tendinopathy" now instead of "Achilles Tendonitis"
 
It couldn't hurt, and I'd appreciate it! Just post or PM, plz! :)

Went back to the dr. office today and it was a different doc I saw this time, but pretty much the same kinda "shuffle 'em in & out as quik as possible" deals! :mad:

Anyway, he said take a week off from exercising plus he wrote me a prescription for Diclofenac but I doubt I will even fill it. He also said if its gonna rupture, its gonna rupture no matr wat, WAT A FUKN JOKE! :( U think the med wud actually help cuz from what I've heard the Achilles tendon doesn't even really becum inflammed like they thot and that's y they call it "Achilles tendinopathy" now instead of "Achilles Tendonitis"

Side note: NSAID's are contraindicated with quinolones due to adverse CNS reactions.

Yep, you are correct, tendonopathy (tendinitis) whatever you want to call it, is not an inflammatory condition. Especially in cases caused by FQs they are degenerative conditions. New research says NSAIDs actually retard recovery.

Rest for a week. Start doing eccentric exercises to affected joints when you can. If you feel any pain back off. I urge you to see your regular doctor and get a diagnosis of Quinolone Induced Tendinopathy.

PLEASE submit your adverse reaction report to the FDA here: https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/medwatch/medwatch-online.htm

I take:
1k-3k fish oil per day
400 mg magnesium per day
a supplement with hyaluronic acid, glucosamine, chondtroitin (I use ligament restore)
Vitamin C
CIssus
Whey Protein Isolate
GHRP-6
Vitamin D

I am usually not on the supplement bandwagon, but the recovery I am making compared to other folks on the FQ forums is extraordinary. I really credit the GHRP6 with most of it. There is some valid pubmed science on the rest of the stuff and tendon repair but a lot of it is not researched thoroughly. The risk/reward is worth it for me though.
 
Side note: NSAID's are contraindicated with quinolones due to adverse CNS reactions.

Yep, you are correct, tendonopathy (tendinitis) whatever you want to call it, is not an inflammatory condition. Especially in cases caused by FQs they are degenerative conditions. New research says NSAIDs actually retard recovery.

Rest for a week. Start doing eccentric exercises to affected joints when you can. If you feel any pain back off. I urge you to see your regular doctor and get a diagnosis of Quinolone Induced Tendinopathy.

PLEASE submit your adverse reaction report to the FDA here: https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/medwatch/medwatch-online.htm

I take:
1k-3k fish oil per day
400 mg magnesium per day
a supplement with hyaluronic acid, glucosamine, chondtroitin (I use ligament restore)
Vitamin C
CIssus
Whey Protein Isolate
GHRP-6
Vitamin D

I am usually not on the supplement bandwagon, but the recovery I am making compared to other folks on the FQ forums is extraordinary. I really credit the GHRP6 with most of it. There is some valid pubmed science on the rest of the stuff and tendon repair but a lot of it is not researched thoroughly. The risk/reward is worth it for me though.

First of all, I submitted my ARR as you requested and if you would like for me to PM you what I sent in regards to the paragraph explanation part, I can. That form in general took longer than I thought though!

I think I might start actually getting better, or at least hope so! I talked to a PT who recommended me some stretches to do plus bought some new shoes (that's been a long time overdue anyway) to help with under & overpronation to keep the Achilles in place.

I've read up on Cipro and how ur not supposed to take it with dairy (cuz of calcium) which might be why I'm getting better sooner since I remember drinking it with a whey shake which had 250mg of calcium in it. Do you know of the reduced bioavailibility of calcium to Cipro, and if so, what is in terms of mg per mg knocking it down to percentage wise? [reference(s) wud b nice, if you did, btw!]

Also, you seem to be extremely on point about all of this and I wanted to ask you what you thought about pertaining to elevating the legs/feet at night during sleep, and if so, how much inches should they be raised, Sir?
 
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First of all, I submitted my ARR as you requested and if you would like for me to PM you what I sent in regards to the paragraph explanation part, I can. That form in general took longer than I thought though!

I think I might start actually getting better, or at least hope so! I talked to a PT who recommended me some stretches to do plus bought some new shoes (that's been a long time overdue anyway) to help with under & overpronation to keep the Achilles in place.

I've read up on Cipro and how ur not supposed to take it with dairy (cuz of calcium) which might be why I'm getting better sooner since I remember drinking it with a whey shake which had 250mg of calcium in it. Do you know of the reduced bioavailibility of calcium to Cipro, and if so, what is in terms of mg per mg knocking it down to percentage wise? [reference(s) wud b nice, if you did, btw!]

Also, you seem to be extremely on point about all of this and I wanted to ask you what you thought about pertaining to elevating the legs/feet at night during sleep, and if so, how much inches should they be raised, Sir?

Calcium and magnesium and zinc I believe interrupt the absorption. Elevating your legs at night isn't going to do anything. I hope you keep recovering well. The past two days are the best I've felt since I've been floxed.
 
I was playing a lot of racquetball at the time, and had been playing a lot over the past year. And at a heavy weight I was well trained down there for it. Still considering, the achilles symptoms I noticed were mostly general stiffness and slight ache. What supprised me was the tendons in my forearms. I was not training any weights recent, and it was bi-lateral so not related to racquet sports. In fact, I think I laid off for a couple of weeks conincidentally. All pain in all areas subsided within 10 days of discontinuing a 9 day application of Avelox. The forearms were the strangest as I can remember upon wakening, I could not straighten my arms for many minutes....

Funny thing about achilles ruptures. Everyone I met usual reports just doing some kind of stupid shit, it not just walking or standing, and boom. Also I used to think that heel pains were a sign of potential rupture, which they may be, however It has been explained to me that most ruptures occur 3-5 inches up the back of the leg, and away from the heel?!?! So the only odditiy I notice these days (which was starting prior to Avelox) is a funny feeling of tendons rolling over each other, or muscles, in that area 3-5 inches up, and just at odd times when walking.:confused:

One further note is that I had actually taken the drug once prior for about 5 days total and got scared off so backed down to biaxin at the time (which sufficed the purpose). I never had any indication of problems on that first go. The second time was the 9 day run and problems started up fast on day 3 in. So I am convinced that there is some cumulative effect on the CNS, etc.. in relation to using quinolones. But man will they know out some chest and nose bugs!!! And seemingly long term extended over a season and year now...:)



BBC3, did you train w/ weights or use the treadmill when you took ur Avelox, Sir? If so, how did they hold up and did they hurt & ache during training? If you didn't exercise though while taking Avelox, how long of a break did you take until you started working out and how did your tendons feel, Sir, in particular your Achilles tendon?
 
I too have taken them in the past with minor aches which I did not attribute to the FQ's, then this time - BOOM.
 
I was playing a lot of racquetball at the time, and had been playing a lot over the past year. And at a heavy weight I was well trained down there for it. Still considering, the achilles symptoms I noticed were mostly general stiffness and slight ache. What supprised me was the tendons in my forearms. I was not training any weights recent, and it was bi-lateral so not related to racquet sports. In fact, I think I laid off for a couple of weeks conincidentally. All pain in all areas subsided within 10 days of discontinuing a 9 day application of Avelox. The forearms were the strangest as I can remember upon wakening, I could not straighten my arms for many minutes....

Funny thing about achilles ruptures. Everyone I met usual reports just doing some kind of stupid shit, it not just walking or standing, and boom. Also I used to think that heel pains were a sign of potential rupture, which they may be, however It has been explained to me that most ruptures occur 3-5 inches up the back of the leg, and away from the heel?!?! So the only odditiy I notice these days (which was starting prior to Avelox) is a funny feeling of tendons rolling over each other, or muscles, in that area 3-5 inches up, and just at odd times when walking.:confused:

One further note is that I had actually taken the drug once prior for about 5 days total and got scared off so backed down to biaxin at the time (which sufficed the purpose). I never had any indication of problems on that first go. The second time was the 9 day run and problems started up fast on day 3 in. So I am convinced that there is some cumulative effect on the CNS, etc.. in relation to using quinolones. But man will they know out some chest and nose bugs!!! And seemingly long term extended over a season and year now...:)

Thanks for the post, BBC3, it is EXTREMELY appreciative!!! :D
 
Getn a bit better day by day plus less worrisome, nervous, anxious attitude about it all! :D
Thx for asking, CB!
What bout U? :confused:

Making good progress but pushing too hard.

Neck: about 100%
Hands/wrists: achy a little from too much computer use at work/home (Need to cut myself off at home) To compound this I've got a case of gamekeepers thumb from a bad tackle last season that has this situation has made worse. It was healing fine then totally regressed. It is responding the slowest even with regular splinting so I wonder if I may need surgery on it. I may have needed the surgery even without the quins. If it doesn't dramatically get better in another week I'm going to go back to my doc about it and see how else he wants to evaluate it.

Knees: about 75% will get a weird snap/pop every once in awhile but less and less. I have been wearing knee wraps at the gym and that seems to help.

Heels/achilles: Initially I thought it was achilles tendonitis but that seems to have healed up 100%. My plantar fasciitis has still been bothersome however. I just can't get it to go away completely.

I was able to bench 225 5 times yesterday and do 50 pull ups so my upper body is fine. My lower body is what I am worried about. Still refraining from squats and using the bike.

I'm fairly confident within a month I will be 85%, and if I take this spring rugby season off I could be back to 100%. However, I don't think I want to do that so I think I will be spending a lot of time with the chiro/physical therapist, which BCBS covers (for me) 100%. They must hate me. But then again, it's their fault the quins are on their formulary. :)

I'm worried that once I get back into a contact sport shit may start falling apart, and if that happens I may have to give it up. I hope htat's not the case though.

It's been 21 days since my severe reaction, and (fingers fucking crossed) if I don't have another relapse within the next 10 days I think I will be just fine, so long as I never touch these things again.

Just a note, for those who have suffered these side effects, for some reason use of corticosteroids can bring on adverse reactions long after quin use has stopped. No one really knows why. But it's an anecdotal experience nearly all quin sufferers share. So think twice before getting that cortisone shot in the future.
 
Making good progress but pushing too hard.

Neck: about 100%
Hands/wrists: achy a little from too much computer use at work/home (Need to cut myself off at home) To compound this I've got a case of gamekeepers thumb from a bad tackle last season that has this situation has made worse. It was healing fine then totally regressed. It is responding the slowest even with regular splinting so I wonder if I may need surgery on it. I may have needed the surgery even without the quins. If it doesn't dramatically get better in another week I'm going to go back to my doc about it and see how else he wants to evaluate it.

Knees: about 75% will get a weird snap/pop every once in awhile but less and less. I have been wearing knee wraps at the gym and that seems to help.

Heels/achilles: Initially I thought it was achilles tendonitis but that seems to have healed up 100%. My plantar fasciitis has still been bothersome however. I just can't get it to go away completely.

I was able to bench 225 5 times yesterday and do 50 pull ups so my upper body is fine. My lower body is what I am worried about. Still refraining from squats and using the bike.

I'm fairly confident within a month I will be 85%, and if I take this spring rugby season off I could be back to 100%. However, I don't think I want to do that so I think I will be spending a lot of time with the chiro/physical therapist, which BCBS covers (for me) 100%. They must hate me. But then again, it's their fault the quins are on their formulary. :)

I'm worried that once I get back into a contact sport shit may start falling apart, and if that happens I may have to give it up. I hope htat's not the case though.

It's been 21 days since my severe reaction, and (fingers fucking crossed) if I don't have another relapse within the next 10 days I think I will be just fine, so long as I never touch these things again.

Just a note, for those who have suffered these side effects, for some reason use of corticosteroids can bring on adverse reactions long after quin use has stopped. No one really knows why. But it's an anecdotal experience nearly all quin sufferers share. So think twice before getting that cortisone shot in the future.

GLAD TO HEAR BOUT U THINK UR GONNA MAKE A FULL RECOVERY, SIR!!!!! :)

What about NSAID use, wud that spur a severe reaction, or no, b/c I was thinking about taking a decongestant 1x today that contains 700mg of Tylenol, but won't if it causes regression.

Also, I am thinking about when do you think my Achilles will be back to where it was considering I only took ONE Cipro tab? They state that the mechanism of action why quinones are hard on tendons is that it may be toxic to tenocytes causing cell death PLUS it tells the tenocytes not to build back up, so its a double dose of dogshit! :eek:

I'm thinking that once equilibrium kiks in, still mabe ur tendons won't be the same ever again perhaps b/c it caused cellular death, OR mabe ur body is smart enuf to notice that the tendons need re-strengthening so they start beefing them bak up to where they were pre-quinone... at least that's what I'm hopin! :D
 
GLAD TO HEAR BOUT U THINK UR GONNA MAKE A FULL RECOVERY, SIR!!!!! :)

What about NSAID use, wud that spur a severe reaction, or no, b/c I was thinking about taking a decongestant 1x today that contains 700mg of Tylenol, but won't if it causes regression.

Also, I am thinking about when do you think my Achilles will be back to where it was considering I only took ONE Cipro tab? They state that the mechanism of action why quinones are hard on tendons is that it may be toxic to tenocytes causing cell death PLUS it tells the tenocytes not to build back up, so its a double dose of dogshit! :eek:

I'm thinking that once equilibrium kiks in, still mabe ur tendons won't be the same ever again perhaps b/c it caused cellular death, OR mabe ur body is smart enuf to notice that the tendons need re-strengthening so they start beefing them bak up to where they were pre-quinone... at least that's what I'm hopin! :D

As to the healing mechanism - I have no fucking clue. No one does. There have been plenty of 100% (or close to it) recovery stories, so I think perhaps the body eventually fixes the damage. THe problem is that the areas the quins effect have really poor bloodflow. So I think the key is to stimulate bloodflow to those areas.

What I REALLY wish is that the fuckhead Bush didn't screw over stem cell therapy in this country. Fuckhead set us back 4 years when I could be going in and getting a shot to fix my tendons right now. (Not really but seriously maybe in 20 years this will be possible).

Why don't you go buy some mucinex that is just http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0000696.
 
As to the healing mechanism - I have no fucking clue. No one does. There have been plenty of 100% (or close to it) recovery stories, so I think perhaps the body eventually fixes the damage. THe problem is that the areas the quins effect have really poor bloodflow. So I think the key is to stimulate bloodflow to those areas.

What I REALLY wish is that the fuckhead Bush didn't screw over stem cell therapy in this country. Fuckhead set us back 4 years when I could be going in and getting a shot to fix my tendons right now. (Not really but seriously maybe in 20 years this will be possible).

Why don't you go buy some mucinex that is just http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0000696.

Not that kinda congestion. My ears r clogd so I'm trying to get them to open up and allow them to drain + get my sinuses to drain, too.
 
I'm just about a month out from my severe adverse reaction. About ~60 days since I ingested a quinolone antibiotic.

Sleep is better. Was prescribed ambien but it gives me bad rebound anxiety, which is a documented side effect. Not worth it for me. Melatonin and if I really can't sleep .5-1 mg of klonopin has been satisfactory.

Wrists/Hands: Wax and wane. If I use them too much they bother me. I played videogames for 8 hours on Sunday and they are achy today. You know you are fucked up when videogames cause you pain.

Neck: No pain or "catches" in it anymore. Still some crepitus when I turn it/rotate it.

Elbows/Shoulders: Painful when I sleep sometimes. Overall not too bad.

Achilles/Feet: Occasional bad twinge in the achilles.

Lower back / Hips: BAD. This has turned into my #2 issue. My lower back has just been achy and painful and all around horrible. It makes it difficult to be mobile.

Knees: BAD. Still my #1 issue. Some days it is difficult to walk around the house.

It's so weird. One day I am confident I will be better soon, the next, BAM. The reports state that the damage mechanism seems to prevent the body from efficiently healing all of the micro-tears in the tendons that happen on a daily basis, and that seems completely accurate.

I found a study yesterday that said that the mean healing time of tendinosis from a FQ is something like 150 days. I can't find it today, but that means I've still got a ways to go. My get better date of March is looking more and more unattainable. I guess I could still wake up one day and be like damn, I'm feeling better, but I am not that optimistic.

I really wonder if something is going to eventually rupture.
 
Stay away. Seriously lethal. I developed side effects i never believed i would. Its the second drug after finasteride that harmed me so bad. Offcourse before fin it didn't affect me much, but after i was wacked by the dreadful sides from finasteride ciprofloxacin just added another nightmare. It messes up thyroid VERY BAD. I couldn't sweat for months post this shit, and developed some weird form of depersonalisation, went to the docs they told me my TSH is gone wild. It only took 17 of them pills to do that.

Offcourse had all the weird sides like tendon pains and joint aches. Its so strong, a pharmacist friend took it and had 4 weeks back ache he couldn't move, my father's secretary lost her hearing for like 6 months and still she has tinnitus and dizziness.

Ahh dizziness is also something i had too, and headaches and the biggest pain in the ass is if you dare combine it with cortisol or anti-inflammatories i heard of people developing mental sides and pressure in their head from just a few pills of cipro.

Also another friend of mine had to stay 3 months of the swimming pool after 10 pills of cipro because of fatigue and dizziness. He also stated he couldn't sweat even when his temperature rose to 40 degrees celcius.

Sickening drugs
 
I'm just about a month out from my severe adverse reaction. About ~60 days since I ingested a quinolone antibiotic.

Sleep is better. Was prescribed ambien but it gives me bad rebound anxiety, which is a documented side effect. Not worth it for me. Melatonin and if I really can't sleep .5-1 mg of klonopin has been satisfactory.

Wrists/Hands: Wax and wane. If I use them too much they bother me. I played videogames for 8 hours on Sunday and they are achy today. You know you are fucked up when videogames cause you pain.

Neck: No pain or "catches" in it anymore. Still some crepitus when I turn it/rotate it.

Elbows/Shoulders: Painful when I sleep sometimes. Overall not too bad.

Achilles/Feet: Occasional bad twinge in the achilles.

Lower back / Hips: BAD. This has turned into my #2 issue. My lower back has just been achy and painful and all around horrible. It makes it difficult to be mobile.

Knees: BAD. Still my #1 issue. Some days it is difficult to walk around the house.

It's so weird. One day I am confident I will be better soon, the next, BAM. The reports state that the damage mechanism seems to prevent the body from efficiently healing all of the micro-tears in the tendons that happen on a daily basis, and that seems completely accurate.

I found a study yesterday that said that the mean healing time of tendinosis from a FQ is something like 150 days. I can't find it today, but that means I've still got a ways to go. My get better date of March is looking more and more unattainable. I guess I could still wake up one day and be like damn, I'm feeling better, but I am not that optimistic.

I really wonder if something is going to eventually rupture.

Keep us updated and let us know when you feel up to par again, Sir! :)
 
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