Question for Bill Roberts on short cycles

[cvictorg]

Can you do an all oral short cycle using Primabolan Acetate and/or Turinobol?

I was thinking of using 150 mgs Primabolan per day and/or 30 mgs of Turinobol per day for 3weeks on/4wweeks off

Can you do a short cycle with just one of those AAS or would both be better?

Also - if you use say 500ius of hgh 2x/week while on would it be better to inject 100ius 5x/day o is it better to take the whole amount at once?

 

[Michael Scally MD]

Are you being serious???

Before I comment further, can you clarify the hGH dose? [Please use IU in CAPS]

Do you know that 3 IU hGH = 1 mg? And a high dose is 6 mg/day (usually with many side effects)

 

[cvictorg]

Are you being serious???

Before I comment further, can you clarify the hGH dose? [Please use IU in CAPS]

Do you know that 3 IU hGH = 1 mg? And a high dose is 6 mg/day (usually with many side effects)

My bad - a typo - I meant HCG not hGH - sorry

 

[Bill Roberts]

Short cycles are better proven with relatively higher doses than with relatively low dose.

It might well be the case that if dedicated to low dose use,. being "on" a given number of weeks in the year might be as or more productive over the year done as many short cycles than as few long ones, but if this is demonstrated I don't happen to know it.

Myself, if going that route, I'd use both.

On injecting HCG, there is no point in dividing a given day's dose into multiple injections.

But if wanting to do for example about 1000 IU per week, I'd rather see that as for example 150 IU every day, or 250-300 IU every other day, than 500 IU 2x/week. But the latter is certainly doable, just probably not as efficient and certainly not giving as stable levels.

 

[cvictorg]

Short cycles are better proven with relatively higher doses than with relatively low dose.

It might well be the case that if dedicated to low dose use,. being "on" a given number of weeks in the year might be as or more productive over the year done as many short cycles than as few long ones, but if this is demonstrated I don't happen to know it.

Myself, if going that route, I'd use both.

On injecting HCG, there is no point in dividing a given day's dose into multiple injections.

But if wanting to do for example about 1000 IU per week, I'd rather see that as for example 150 IU every day, or 250-300 IU every other day, than 500 IU 2x/week. But the latter is certainly doable, just probably not as efficient and certainly not giving as stable levels.

Are these doses high enough - 150 mgs Primabolan per day and 30 mgs of Turinobol per day for 3weeks on/4wweeks off

Also - thanks for the infor on hcg - 150iu ED sounds better for mintaining stable levels

 

[Taylor2]

Short cycles are better proven with relatively higher doses than with relatively low dose.

It might well be the case that if dedicated to low dose use,. being "on" a given number of weeks in the year might be as or more productive over the year done as many short cycles than as few long ones, but if this is demonstrated I don't happen to know it.

Myself, if going that route, I'd use both.

On injecting HCG, there is no point in dividing a given day's dose into multiple injections.

But if wanting to do for example about 1000 IU per week, I'd rather see that as for example 150 IU every day, or 250-300 IU every other day, than 500 IU 2x/week. But the latter is certainly doable, just probably not as efficient and certainly not giving as stable levels.

Its obvious you never cycled a day in your life,I have read some of your postings you make no dam sence

 

[cvictorg]

Its obvious you never cycled a day in your life,I have read some of your postings you make no dam sence

Actually - I just finished a cycle - 600 Test P and 750 EQ per week and I've now started my PCT

So - make no assumptions about anything

One thing I found out from the cycle - I HATE IM shots with a passion

So - I'm investigating all oral cycles - everything I've read says to keep an all oral cycle to a length of no more than 6-8 weeks

The orals I've mentioned seem to be the safest in terms of sides and it looks like the weight gained will be virtually no water weight - at least according to William Llewwllyn's 2009 Anabolics - 9th Edition

The short cycle theory intrigues me - it makes sense on some levels

And if you think 3 week on/4 week off all orals cycles with the AAS I've mentioned at the doses I've mentioned make no sense THEN explain to me rationally why it doesn't

 

[big_tom]

Yeah, if you are doing oral only cycles keep them short because they are harder on the liver than IM injections.

 

[Bill Roberts]

Are these doses high enough - 150 mgs Primabolan per day and 30 mgs of Turinobol per day for 3weeks on/4wweeks off

Also - thanks for the infor on hcg - 150iu ED sounds better for mintaining stable levels

Well, I have no personal experience with Primobolan acetate nor ever employed it in any cycles designed for anyone. The only uses I've known of have been bridging applications.

So I don't have an exact idea of the effectiveness. But as guesswork I'd think that if also using the 30 mg/day Oral Turinabol results could be decent.

 

[Bill Roberts]

Oh, and because if you use both of these this will quite possibly be fully suppressive and neither aromatizes, it would be best to use low dose HCG (e.g. 100-125 IU daily, or 200-250 IU every other day) during the cycle.

Doing so would also increase total androgen level somewhat from testosterone being normalized or put to high normal instead of being near zero.

Though the oral-only nature of your proposed cycle does raise the question of whether you'd be willing to inject the HCG. It really is no big deal: grandmothers inject their own insulin, as do some rather young kids. It shouldn't be turned into a barrier.

 

[Bigkarch]

if you have just started pct give it some time before you start

 

[cvictorg]

Oh, and because if you use both of these this will quite possibly be fully suppressive and neither aromatizes, it would be best to use low dose HCG (e.g. 100-125 IU daily, or 200-250 IU every other day) during the cycle.

Doing so would also increase total androgen level somewhat from testosterone being normalized or put to high normal instead of being near zero.

Though the oral-only nature of your proposed cycle does raise the question of whether you'd be willing to inject the HCG. It really is no big deal: grandmothers inject their own insulin, as do some rather young kids. It shouldn't be turned into a barrier.

Injecting hcg is no problem

1) I'm already using GHRP-6 and Modified GRF(1-29)
2) Thx for the info on hcg
3) I'm leaning to a cycle of either T-Bol+Var or just T-Bol

 

[Bill Roberts]

Well, here's the thing:

While it may be the case (I suppose it probably is but have no practical evidence on it) that doing for example 12 two-week cycles per year with some fairly lame dosage may do as well or better overall than 3 eight-week cycles with the same fairly lame dosage, the situation where the 2-week cycles are well proven is with more serious dosages that really do give substantial effect rapidly.

Although Primobolan acetate is an exception, not being alkylated, generally speaking when limiting oneself to orals, this means that whatever your dosage is, all of it is of the liver-toxic variety. This tends to limit oral dosage, though for the sake of knowledge I did try 75 mg/day each oxandrolone and oxymetholone once, and it was effective.

At any rate one will find few experienced users who rely on oral-only.

Since it turns out that needle-aversion isn't a problem, then why not do a more standard drug combination and make the base testosterone propionate and/or trenbolone acetate?

Then fill that out with orals as desired.

Whether you're going for 2 week cycles or some longer period such as 6 or 8 weeks.

 

[cvictorg]

Well, here's the thing:

While it may be the case (I suppose it probably is but have no practical evidence on it) that doing for example 12 two-week cycles per year with some fairly lame dosage may do as well or better overall than 3 eight-week cycles with the same fairly lame dosage, the situation where the 2-week cycles are well proven is with more serious dosages that really do give substantial effect rapidly.

Although Primobolan acetate is an exception, not being alkylated, generally speaking when limiting oneself to orals, this means that whatever your dosage is, all of it is of the liver-toxic variety. This tends to limit oral dosage, though for the sake of knowledge I did try 75 mg/day each oxandrolone and oxymetholone once, and it was effective.

At any rate one will find few experienced users who rely on oral-only.

Since it turns out that needle-aversion isn't a problem, then why not do a more standard drug combination and make the base testosterone propionate and/or trenbolone acetate?

Then fill that out with orals as desired.

Whether you're going for 2 week cycles or some longer period such as 6 or 8 weeks.

Please explain why you keep recommending trenbolone acetate given the severe side effects a lot of people report getting - such as wildly increased agression and the dreaded tren cough - also test prop must be injected EOD - if I were to use an injectable why not EQ once a week - say 300-600mgs - the muscle gained from that should be LBM with little or no water

 

[Reinheart]

I would rather do primo acetate-d-bol combo along with some proviron or d-bol - anavar. Primo and anavar are class I steroids and d-bol is a class II so they're a good much. I would add proviron and HCG as well and i would run it for 6 weeks. You can strech it to 8 weeks if your blood work is ok.

I would use 20-30mgs d-bol and no less than 100mgs primo or no less than 30-50mgs anavar. Proviron is good at 50mgs ed and HCG as you wish. I would use nolva for pct.

 

[Bill Roberts]

Please explain why you keep recommending trenbolone acetate given the severe side effects a lot of people report getting - such as wildly increased agression and the dreaded tren cough - also test prop must be injected EOD - if I were to use an injectable why not EQ once a week - say 300-600mgs - the muscle gained from that should be LBM with little or no water

Because there is a difference between real world experience and working with a pretty large number of people, versus acquiring fears from what some people will post.

:"Wildly increased aggression?" No. Some people, who probably are on the edge anyway, may find a controllable degree of problem with it, but even that is very much the minority.

"Dreaded tren cough?" First, how often that happens depends on the preparation. The way that I do it, it is quite rare. I get it on only a few percent of injections if even that. And yes, it's unpleasant when it happens, but it's over in 60 seconds, approximately.

As to why not use EQ: It's completely unsuitable for a short cycle due to a fairly extremely long half-life.

And what is the problem with injecting every other day?

If injecting more frequently, you get to move away from the 3 mL at a time injections to much-more-pleasant 1 mL at a time injections with insulin needles, which reduce scarring issues either to zero or virtually zero, provided the exact same spot isn't hit overly repeatedly.

 

[cvictorg]

What gauge insulin needles do you use - aren't insulin needle injections subQ? I thought AAS had to be IM.

Please explain further

 

[Bill Roberts]

29 gauge, 1/2" inch. This is sufficient for IM where there is relatively little fat layer and where the volume of injection is only 1mL.

It takes a few minutes to draw the oil into the syringe and also this dulls the needle, so most prefer to draw with for example a 23 gauge and then backfill the insulin syringe.

 

[cvictorg]

29 gauge, 1/2" inch. This is sufficient for IM where there is relatively little fat layer and where the volume of injection is only 1mL.

It takes a few minutes to draw the oil into the syringe and also this dulls the needle, so most prefer to draw with for example a 23 gauge and then backfill the insulin syringe.

2 questions

I always thought that oil based AAS could not be injected with a slin pin - I always read that AAS had to be injected IM

To backfill do you mean draw with a 23 gauge - remove the needle and them draw into the slin pin?

 

[Bill Roberts]

Yes, there are any number of people who intellectualize that it is (supposedly) impossible to inject oil-based steroids with an insulin syringe, so it's no surprise if you've read or been told that it is impossible. For example, regardless that I told Dan Duchaine that I did this all the time, he continued to insist it was impossible.

But they are intellectualizing incorrectly. It is in fact easy.

I could explain this on the principles of hydraulics but really there is no need: the fact is that it works, and the fact is what matters

The injections are indeed IM, pressing the needle straight down same as any IM injection, though you don't want a location with a substantial coat of fat.

By backfill I mean removing the plunger from the insulin syringe and filling it from that end with another, larger syringe and needle. I don't remove the 23 gauge needle but use it to add the oil into the barrel of the insulin syringe.