Cardiac MRI Results (need help understanding)

[bananafeet]

250 test c
100 primo e
3iu gh daily
10mg reta weekly

Bodyweight is approximately 93kg at 174cm

Morning blood pressure is 115/75 and 75 rhr

What's your take from this? (Apologies for hijacking, I think the contribution of examples could be useful to discussion)

Bro I'm not a doctor. I would lose sleep at night if I found out people were relying on my advice.

What Is Pulse Pressure?

Pulse pressure is the difference between your top and bottom blood pressure numbers. It can tell your provider about your heart health.

my.clevelandclinic.org

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/JAHA.117.007621

 

[shredded.lyfe]

Bro I'm not a doctor. I would lose sleep at night if I found out people were relying on my advice.

What Is Pulse Pressure?

Pulse pressure is the difference between your top and bottom blood pressure numbers. It can tell your provider about your heart health.

my.clevelandclinic.org

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/JAHA.117.007621

Well looks like I'm consistently on 40 pulse pressure week to week

 

[Elektrobot]

Have you ever checked your vitamin d when you do bloodwork?

Is it low?

 

[psauce]

The bad news is, this is exactly what one would expect from abuse of AAS. The good news is, it's usually reversible.

Also, stick with your physician group. This is excellent by the standard of radiology reports. You're getting good care... now drop the gear and fix this shit.

 

[Photon]

In all honesty I’ve only been enhanced for 2 years now. Dude I’m working with is confident I’ll be competing at a national level by the end of this year.

Maybe not now with the health things going on, but we’ll see how my bloods look in couple days

I’m truly hoping the heart issues are simply from letting my blood pressure run wild like banana feet had mentioned

Are you still blasting?
LVH can be regressed so it's not that bad if caught early.

Get your bp in check
Look at adding either eplerenone or spiro.

 

[benjaminnetenyahu]

The bad news is, this is exactly what one would expect from abuse of AAS. The good news is, it's usually reversible.

Also, stick with your physician group. This is excellent by the standard of radiology reports. You're getting good care... now drop the gear and fix this shit.

Thanks brother, glad to hear I’m in good hands with my cardiac doctors.

I heard banana guys opinion on this but I’d also like to hear yours (not dogging on you banana guy, you’re cool)

If I take some time off on TRT, enough time to reverse the damage, if I got back on cycle and continued blasting, would all of these symptoms go back to exactly how they were, and then continue to progress further? Or would I essentially be starting from 0 damage again?

I suppose essentially the bigger question is, if I care about my heart health, is this the end of my PED usage?

 

[juicebro]

Thanks brother, glad to hear I’m in good hands with my cardiac doctors.

I heard banana guys opinion on this but I’d also like to hear yours (not dogging on you banana guy, you’re cool)

If I take some time off on TRT, enough time to reverse the damage, if I got back on cycle and continued blasting, would all of these symptoms go back to exactly how they were, and then continue to progress further? Or would I essentially be starting from 0 damage again?

I suppose essentially the bigger question is, if I care about my heart health, is this the end of my PED usage?

Out of curiosity I analyzed your results with AI.

Did you have covid or some kind of an infection? I don't think this is related to AAS at all. There's somer athletic remodeling that even natties but there's more there than that.

Bottom line​

• This is not normal athlete’s heart
• This is not explained by AAS
• This is pathologic until proven otherwise
• Likely inflammatory myocardial injury
• Potentially reversible, but not something to ignore

Why a cruise will NOT help​

A cruise means continued androgen exposure. Even “mild” testosterone:

• Increases blood volume and preload
• Increases myocardial oxygen demand
• Increases sympathetic tone
• Can worsen myocardial inflammation
• Can suppress proper ventricular recovery

None of that helps a heart with:

• Active myocardial edema
• Global hypokinesis
• Depressed biventricular EF

If this were simple athlete’s heart, cruising would be neutral.

This is not athlete’s heart.

I'm not a doctor and I don't know how big of a deal it really is but according to chatgpt it can only be fixed if you stop training, no AAS at all, no stims + meds.

 

[xrayphoton13]

Thanks brother, glad to hear I’m in good hands with my cardiac doctors.

I heard banana guys opinion on this but I’d also like to hear yours (not dogging on you banana guy, you’re cool)

If I take some time off on TRT, enough time to reverse the damage, if I got back on cycle and continued blasting, would all of these symptoms go back to exactly how they were, and then continue to progress further? Or would I essentially be starting from 0 damage again?

I suppose essentially the bigger question is, if I care about my heart health, is this the end of my PED usage?

We do know AAS use leads to LVH. However we can't know the severity of it in you the next time you blast. We can make an educated guess that it will be less than before if you implement things like HIIT cardio and keep blood pressure in the normal range. There's no way to prevent it though short of avoiding AAS

 

[xrayphoton13]

Out of curiosity I analyzed your results with AI.

Did you have covid or some kind of an infection? I don't think this is related to AAS at all. There's somer athletic remodeling that even natties but there's more there than that.



I'm not a doctor and I don't know how big of a deal it really is but according to chatgpt it can only be fixed if you stop training, no AAS at all, no stims + meds.

That chatgpt response seems far overblown. However I'm not a doctor. You can definitely reverse lvh on a cruise. Just make sure it's trt and not sports trt or trt+, lol

 

[benjaminnetenyahu]

Out of curiosity I analyzed your results with AI.

Did you have covid or some kind of an infection? I don't think this is related to AAS at all. There's somer athletic remodeling that even natties but there's more there than that.



I'm not a doctor and I don't know how big of a deal it really is but according to chatgpt it can only be fixed if you stop training, no AAS at all, no stims + meds.

The closest thing I could think of to an “infection” is my DNP run.

About 2 weeks prior to the MRI I had just finished a 3 week run of DNP

 

[juicebro]

That chatgpt response seems far overblown. However I'm not a doctor. You can definitely reverse lvh on a cruise. Just make sure it's trt and not sports trt or trt+, lol

But his problem is not LVH. His numbers are somewhat normal. He has some kind of inflammation induced myocardial injury. Perhaps vaccine or covid related?

 

[xrayphoton13]

But his problem is not LVH. His numbers are somewhat normal. He has some kind of inflammation induced myocardial injury. Perhaps vaccine or covid related?

I didn't see any mention of myocardial injury in the report or any mention of contrast enhancement to support infection. Maybe I missed it. Oh, maybe chatgpt got it from the mention of hypokinesis? I dunno

As far as lvh, op should search lvh and in user enter Type-IIx. He has some really good posts on the subject

 

[juicebro]

The closest thing I could think of to an “infection” is my DNP run.

About 2 weeks prior to the MRI I had just finished a 3 week run of DNP

"DNP absolutely can explain this MRI"

I'm sure you know how to use chatgpt and go from there. That's the best case scenario IMO. If you give your heart a break it should go back to normal. If you don't this reversible thing can turn into fibrosis. Once it scars it never turns back to muscle.

 

[VikingMD]

Maybe you mentioned it somewhere else but the question first is why you got the study. If you have been having symptoms that would be different than asymptomatic monitoring.

Context matters because in medicine results are evaluated in the face of the patient and the differential diagnosis.

Also be cautious of the advice. I see a lot of people dismissing the ChatGPT analysis followed by saying “I am not a doctor”. You have to check the biases behind those responses. People on this forum want to avoid thinking about the deleterious effects that can occur with PED use.

Talk to your doctor and if still worried get a second opinion.

 

[benjaminnetenyahu]

Maybe you mentioned it somewhere else but the question first is why you got the study. If you have been having symptoms that would be different than asymptomatic monitoring.

Context matters because in medicine results are evaluated in the face of the patient and the differential diagnosis.

Also be cautious of the advice. I see a lot of people dismissing the ChatGPT analysis followed by saying “I am not a doctor”. You have to check the biases behind those responses. People on this forum want to avoid thinking about the deleterious effects that can occur with PED use.

Talk to your doctor and if still worried get a second opinion.

I have talked to my doctor, recently as well talked to a different one trying to actually get a detailed discussion out of them.

Unfortunately each time instead of answering my questions and explaining in detail to me I am met with “the left ventricle is enlarged, get off testosterone” in a very heavy Chinese or Indian accent lmao. That’s why I’m here trying to get actual explanations from gear users

Anyways, the initial cause of me getting the MRI.

I ran 750 test 600 deca with an anadrol kickstart as my 2nd cycle. At the very end of the cycle I woke up one morning laying on my back breathing very heavy. I got up to go pee. Almost fainted on the way to the bathroom (10 feet away). Got incredibly light headed, vision started going dark. Heart pumping like I’d just ran a marathon.

Went back to my bed. Laid on my back. It took around 3 minutes for my heart to stop beating like I’d ran a marathon. At this point I was also dripping in sweat. Waited a while. Walked upstairs. Same thing happened. Laid on couch and then was taken to the ER

They don’t really know what happened. EKG showed nothing. Kidney and liver enzymes were normal. ER doctor chocked it up to “dehydration” so that’s what prompted me to get things checked out. Since the I’ve had nothing like that happen. This was just under a year ago

 

[Oig2214]

I have talked to my doctor, recently as well talked to a different one trying to actually get a detailed discussion out of them.

Unfortunately each time instead of answering my questions and explaining in detail to me I am met with “the left ventricle is enlarged, get off testosterone” in a very heavy Chinese or Indian accent lmao. That’s why I’m here trying to get actual explanations from gear users

Anyways, the initial cause of me getting the MRI.

I ran 750 test 600 deca with an anadrol kickstart as my 2nd cycle. At the very end of the cycle I woke up one morning laying on my back breathing very heavy. I got up to go pee. Almost fainted on the way to the bathroom (10 feet away). Got incredibly light headed, vision started going dark. Heart pumping like I’d just ran a marathon.

Went back to my bed. Laid on my back. It took around 3 minutes for my heart to stop beating like I’d ran a marathon. At this point I was also dripping in sweat. Waited a while. Walked upstairs. Same thing happened. Laid on couch and then was taken to the ER

They don’t really know what happened. EKG showed nothing. Kidney and liver enzymes were normal. ER doctor chocked it up to “dehydration” so that’s what prompted me to get things checked out. Since the I’ve had nothing like that happen. This was just under a year ago

Prob had a run of SVT that was brought on by orthostatic hypotension from getting up from laying down. You wont catch that on an EKG unless you do one while you are having the episode.

 

[VikingMD]

I have talked to my doctor, recently as well talked to a different one trying to actually get a detailed discussion out of them.

Unfortunately each time instead of answering my questions and explaining in detail to me I am met with “the left ventricle is enlarged, get off testosterone” in a very heavy Chinese or Indian accent lmao. That’s why I’m here trying to get actual explanations from gear users

Anyways, the initial cause of me getting the MRI.

I ran 750 test 600 deca with an anadrol kickstart as my 2nd cycle. At the very end of the cycle I woke up one morning laying on my back breathing very heavy. I got up to go pee. Almost fainted on the way to the bathroom (10 feet away). Got incredibly light headed, vision started going dark. Heart pumping like I’d just ran a marathon.

Went back to my bed. Laid on my back. It took around 3 minutes for my heart to stop beating like I’d ran a marathon. At this point I was also dripping in sweat. Waited a while. Walked upstairs. Same thing happened. Laid on couch and then was taken to the ER

They don’t really know what happened. EKG showed nothing. Kidney and liver enzymes were normal. ER doctor chocked it up to “dehydration” so that’s what prompted me to get things checked out. Since the I’ve had nothing like that happen. This was just under a year ago

Fair. Sounds like your physicians are not very helpful.

I would say that there isn't anything on the MRI that specifically explains those symptoms. It also isn't normal and shows evidence of depressed function (ejection fraction) and hypertrophy (enlargement) likely related to both AAS and HGH possibly exacerbated by some sleep apnea.

Have you had a holter monitor? Have you had a stress test? Did the ED physician check for pulmonary embolism?

Considerations would be:
-arrythmia (abnormal heart rhythm)
-ACS (acute coronary syndrome/coronary artery disease)
-pulmonary embolism

Remember no one's going to care about you and your health as much as you. It is okay to continue to push for answers.

The safest thing to do would be to come off anabolics completely until you get all of the studies done to demonstrate that you are safe and that your cardiac function has normalized. A lot of it is up to you and your own personal risk tolerance.

 

[benjaminnetenyahu]

Fair. Sounds like your physicians are not very helpful.

I would say that there isn't anything on the MRI that specifically explains those symptoms. It also isn't normal and shows evidence of depressed function (ejection fraction) and hypertrophy (enlargement) likely related to both AAS and HGH possibly exacerbated by some sleep apnea.

Have you had a holter monitor? Have you had a stress test? Did the ED physician check for pulmonary embolism?

Considerations would be:
-arrythmia (abnormal heart rhythm)
-ACS (acute coronary syndrome/coronary artery disease)
-pulmonary embolism

Remember no one's going to care about you and your health as much as you. It is okay to continue to push for answers.

The safest thing to do would be to come off anabolics completely until you get all of the studies done to demonstrate that you are safe and that your cardiac function has normalized. A lot of it is up to you and your own personal risk tolerance.

Thanks man, and I have not been tested for any of the you listed. I have another echocardiogram scheduled in 6 months

If I keep my blood pressure in check, take the right supplements, have a clean diet, balanced electrolytes, and continue blasting and cruising, do you believe my heart would continue to get enlarged? Realistically based off these results, how bad is it? Are these career ending results?

I aspire to compete at a very high level, and personally have risk tolerance as I desire to compete in open, however if this will surely lead to my death via heart issues I will of course reconsider

 

[VikingMD]

Very hard to say. You have one point in time. Right? It could be this has been progressing for years but could have progressed in just months. This makes any prognostication essentially impossible.

I personally don't feel like this was just from a few months of unchecked blood pressure. It was multifactorial.

I don't have the answers because there really isn't an answer that has any amount of certainty. Is it possible that if you continue you could end up with irreversible congestive heart failure? Yes. But who knows what the probability of that is.

Also, people frequently distill decisions like this to death or health but there are things worse than death. Living with disabling congestive heart failure is pretty damn bad.

These things are not meant to scare you or reassure you. They are to inform you.

At the minimum if you decide to continue 6 months is too long of an interval to wait to be rechecked.

 

[Matt6969]

No one here is going to be able to give you the answer you want.

Take care of yourself until your next echo and then if everything is good decide from there what risks you want to take. If you decide to blast again you should definitely get an echo or mri during or after a short mild cycle to see how you react, that way if things go bad you have a better chance of recovering.

Here’s my anecdote
I was diagnosed with hfref at 32 after 4 months of trt (150mg 830 TT) and 2 weeks into my first blast at 300mg test. Went to ER with afib. Echo showed EF of 25%. Mild LVH and mitral regurgitation Dr said they were mild enough to be irrelevant.
Started Entresto, Carvedilol and Jardiance. Dropped to 100mg test (560 TT) and threw all the relevant supplements and peptides at it.
Got another echo 1 month later and had an EF of 60%.

May be stupid but figure if I’m going to be stupid best to do it while heavily monitored by cardiologists. Restarted blast, 210 test 70 primo. Getting mri at the end of the month to see where I am at. If I’m good I’ll cautiously continue and monitor frequently. If I’m not back to 100-120mg and then decide if I come off for good or if it’s worth staying on at true trt doses.

After the first echo I thought I was dying. After the second I thought I might be ok. After the MRI I’ll have enough data points to start getting a picture. But I will likely need to monitor my heart regularly for the rest of my life whether I continue to use gear or not.

My point being you don’t have enough info yet to know where you’re really at.

GL brother

Go ahead and shame me for not taking the time to do an intro yet