Start TRT now? or wait until i recover?

[adrenalytic]

That's comforting to hear as it certainly is a big concern for me is how bad it is dealing with all those metrics.
It seems like for some people they hop on and cruise at 1500ng/dl and there's no problems, maybe have to donate blood twice a year Due to Hematocrit. And then there's some people that go on and they are constantly juggling hormones and different health marks at 750ng/dl lol

I know ppeople bitch the most about having to pin consistently, but I already pin peptides pretty consistently so I'm not too worried about that. I just hope Juggling everything else isn't such a giant chore. I hope I'm one of those guys that can cruise at 1,000 or 1,500ng/dl with no negative impact on bloodwork lol

And maybe it won't be worth it if I can only go from 500ng/dl to 800 and then start running into sides. I'll be so mad If that happens lol

Don't over think it. Placebo can manifest as side effects as well. Take the medication and look to the positives while keeping an eye your health markers and you'll be fine. I have never heard of serious side effects coming from test at 1-200mg/wk.

 

[flexi]

Don't over think it. Placebo can manifest as side effects as well. Take the medication and look to the positives while keeping an eye your health markers and you'll be fine. I have never heard of serious side effects coming from test at 1-200mg/wk.

I got symptoms of gyno (puffy nips and tenderness) within 7 weeks of only 160mg/week Test C (80mg E3.5D). Wouldn't call it a serious side as it is gone with very lose dose AI, but your advice is spot on. Without verifying my health markers I would have went overboard with the AI. My e2 was very high and if I was not tracking it as the first weeks of the AI, I would have crashed tf out of it. Taught me that I can't use anyones cookie cutter dose for anything.

 

[Angryshitter]

I got symptoms of gyno (puffy nips and tenderness) within 7 weeks of only 160mg/week Test C (80mg E3.5D). Wouldn't call it a serious side as it is gone with very lose dose AI, but your advice is spot on. Without verifying my health markers I would have went overboard with the AI. My e2 was very high and if I was not tracking it as the first weeks of the AI, I would have crashed tf out of it. Taught me that I can't use anyones cookie cutter dose for anything.

Was that just your body getting used to it? Or did you have to lower your dose? Or do you just take ai from that point forward?

I heard sometimes your body has to get used to it at first? Could be wrong on that.
Where does 160mg put your Test at? Would it be better to just back down the dose or inject every other day to mitigate sides?

Only asking out of curiosity

 

[flexi]

Where does 160mg put your Test at?

It is different for everyone, but I was at a trough of ~650ng/dL. I have since increased to 180mg/week with no issues.

Would it be better to just back down the dose or inject every other day to mitigate sides?

Yes, rolling back is the right call. But to be honest with my AI (.25mg Arimidex/week) keeping my e2 at 27-30 and it being such a small dose that it wouldn't help most people, Im being a bit greedy for now. I take breaks from the AI but as soon as e2 creeps up into the mid-40s, I start it again.

Was that just your body getting used to it?

No, some people respond to exogenous T badly and I am one of them. If you see signs of gyno developing you take care of it while you can. Whether you choose decreasing or an AI, doing something before a potential surgery is better than rolling the dice on it somehow subsiding.

 

[flexi]

as soon as e2 creeps up into the mid-40s, I start it again

Btw this is not a good idea. That level isn't enough to call for AI use. Im just terrified of gyno symptoms coming back.

 

[adrenalytic]

Btw this is not a good idea. That level isn't enough to call for AI use. Im just terrified of gyno symptoms coming back.

It's not a great idea but some guys use a SERM like nolva as a preventative if they're really prone to gyno. That comes with it's own set of considerations.

 

[flexi]

It's not a great idea but some guys use a SERM like nolva as a preventative if they're really prone to gyno. That comes with it's own set of considerations.

Yeah, I have read a bit on Nolva since it is a more targeted approach, but am wary to change my temporary (seemingly) no side effect solution as it is prescribed. Cheap and pharma is hard to beat. I just need to do more research. I plan to test if Primo can be anti-estrogenic enough to be a potential solution. Yet, I am hesitant to trust UGL Primo currently without sending each batch to Jano myself. Too much money in Primo for me to think some may not cut corners.
What do you think? I am still very new to this.

 

[adrenalytic]

What do you think? I am still very new to this.

You're fine to keep running the AI if it's bringing you down in a range you're comfortable with. I personally like my E2 up around 40-50. The SERM was only meant to be another option if you are really worried about gyno.

I plan to test if Primo can be anti-estrogenic enough to be a potential solution.

n=1? yes, primo will have an AI lowering effect. I choose my words carefully here because primo's mode of operation is highly controversial. In most people, you will get E2 lowering.

 

[Angryshitter]

It's not a great idea but some guys use a SERM like nolva as a preventative if they're really prone to gyno. That comes with it's own set of considerations.

Question is how do you choose one over the other?

 

[Sustanon]

Honestly man, if you’re still recovering from surgery and basically sedentary, I wouldn’t burn the TRT “honeymoon phase” right now. That first stretch where everything feels dialed in and motivation/strength shoot up is something you want to actually take advantage of under the bar, not while you’re stuck waiting for tendons to catch up.

Plus, your bloodwork right now is going to be skewed from the pain meds, inactivity, stress, and the fact you’re not training. If you want a legit baseline to compare to later, definitely wait until you’re off all the post-surgery meds and living somewhat normally again. No point in creating a baseline that doesn’t reflect your real physiology.

On the flip side, dialing TRT in isn’t usually as dramatic as people make it sound unless you’re extremely sensitive or doing weird protocols. If you go with a straightforward dose and keep it consistent, most guys feel fine. And you’re not missing some massive optimization window by waiting a couple months.
If it were me, I’d recover fully, get your tendon solid, get back into a routine, take a fresh set of labs, then start TRT when you can actually use the benefits in the gym. You’ll enjoy it way more and you won’t have to deal with any adjustment phase while injured and inactive.

Just my two cents.

 

[Angryshitter]

Honestly man, if you’re still recovering from surgery and basically sedentary, I wouldn’t burn the TRT “honeymoon phase” right now. That first stretch where everything feels dialed in and motivation/strength shoot up is something you want to actually take advantage of under the bar, not while you’re stuck waiting for tendons to catch up.

Plus, your bloodwork right now is going to be skewed from the pain meds, inactivity, stress, and the fact you’re not training. If you want a legit baseline to compare to later, definitely wait until you’re off all the post-surgery meds and living somewhat normally again. No point in creating a baseline that doesn’t reflect your real physiology.

On the flip side, dialing TRT in isn’t usually as dramatic as people make it sound unless you’re extremely sensitive or doing weird protocols. If you go with a straightforward dose and keep it consistent, most guys feel fine. And you’re not missing some massive optimization window by waiting a couple months.
If it were me, I’d recover fully, get your tendon solid, get back into a routine, take a fresh set of labs, then start TRT when you can actually use the benefits in the gym. You’ll enjoy it way more and you won’t have to deal with any adjustment phase while injured and inactive.

Just my two cents.

Thanks for the input man. I think I would have to agree this seems like the best route for me to go. I'm absolutely going to wait as hard as it is lol but I want the best outcome long term. In the mean time I'll just double down on healing and recovery untill then

 

[Guzmanus]

Damn, that's a tough spot to be in. I get wanting to jump right in, but honestly, I think waiting until you're mostly recovered is the play. No point in wasting that "honeymoon phase" sitting on the couch. Plus, you're right, getting dialed in can be a pain, and you don't want to be dealing with sides while trying to get back into the swing of things. Definitely get that baseline bloodwork done too, good call.

 

[thejumpingsheep]

When you say "fully recovered" what does that mean? Can you fully recover from a torn muscle? Im honestly not sure. I have 3 partial tears and I took roids specifically to heal them but my case was obviously different. I couldnt get the same surgery as a full tear. All they wanted to do was go in and clean up the area but keep the partial tears.

This bit might be useful to you. Nothing helped me. I spent over 10 years wallowing because PT didnt work (twice) and actually made things worse. Meds like cortisone didnt work because both my shoulders had tears so at best, I could only get one to work while the other was in pain meaning I still couldnt work upper body very well and even with the cortisone, I was still in pain in the same shoulder that took the shot.

Finally I gave up on the medical field. I ended up going down the UL path. Peptides first, BCP/TB just to let me work out a little and not be crippled for the rest of the week and then I did the opposite of what PT told me... I worked on the torn muscles directly. The most painful exercise possible is what I did. In my case it was bench press because both delts had tears.

Once the ball got rolling and I didnt see a week of pain following a gym session, I realized it was possible to recover. Yes each rep was (and still is somewhat) painful. But I was improving. At that point I added AAS to rapidly grow muscles... who want to make the pain last longer? That was about a year ago. The bulk of the pain subsided about 6 months in.

Today both my delts are about 95% healed. I lived through dead shoulders twice and pain for a long while but they healed, or I should say, muscles grew around them and took the bulk of their tasks away from the tears. They are still there but range of motion is vastly better and power is about 2/3 of when when i was at peak vs I couldnt even press the damn bar 2 years ago. I have one more tear to go, near the right bicep. Working on that now.

So what I would say to you is if your goal is to heal, then go. Roids will help you gain muscle back faster and recover more quickly along with anti-inflammatory meds/peptides and such. As for the other things in your life... well how do you know any of that will improve later? That never happened for me. I just kept getting busy with something else.

Just dont be wanton about it. Pull your bloods. Go slowly and monitor closely. Make sure you get clean gear and make sure this is all appropriate for your tear. If life gets in the way just stop. Why is that even an issue? Its not a all or nothing thing. You can stop any time and reset. Learn about PCT if you are so inclined. Again not sure how it works for a full reconstruction. My example above is for partial tears.

 

[Angryshitter]

When you say "fully recovered" what does that mean? Can you fully recover from a torn muscle? Im honestly not sure. I have 3 partial tears and I took roids specifically to heal them but my case was obviously different. I couldnt get the same surgery as a full tear. All they wanted to do was go in and clean up the area but keep the partial tears.

This bit might be useful to you. Nothing helped me. I spent over 10 years wallowing because PT didnt work (twice) and actually made things worse. Meds like cortisone didnt work because both my shoulders had tears so at best, I could only get one to work while the other was in pain meaning I still couldnt work upper body very well and even with the cortisone, I was still in pain in the same shoulder that took the shot.

Finally I gave up on the medical field. I ended up going down the UL path. Peptides first, BCP/TB just to let me work out a little and not be crippled for the rest of the week and then I did the opposite of what PT told me... I worked on the torn muscles directly. The most painful exercise possible is what I did. In my case it was bench press because both delts had tears.

Once the ball got rolling and I didnt see a week of pain following a gym session, I realized it was possible to recover. Yes each rep was (and still is somewhat) painful. But I was improving. At that point I added AAS to rapidly grow muscles... who want to make the pain last longer? That was about a year ago. The bulk of the pain subsided about 6 months in.

Today both my delts are about 95% healed. I lived through dead shoulders twice and pain for a long while but they healed, or I should say, muscles grew around them and took the bulk of their tasks away from the tears. They are still there but range of motion is vastly better and power is about 2/3 of when when i was at peak vs I couldnt even press the damn bar 2 years ago. I have one more tear to go, near the right bicep. Working on that now.

So what I would say to you is if your goal is to heal, then go. Roids will help you gain muscle back faster and recover more quickly along with anti-inflammatory meds/peptides and such. As for the other things in your life... well how do you know any of that will improve later? That never happened for me. I just kept getting busy with something else.

Just dont be wanton about it. Pull your bloods. Go slowly and monitor closely. Make sure you get clean gear and make sure this is all appropriate for your tear. If life gets in the way just stop. Why is that even an issue? Its not a all or nothing thing. You can stop any time and reset. Learn about PCT if you are so inclined. Again not sure how it works for a full reconstruction. My example above is for partial tears.

Wow maybe you're right maybe that is what I should do. I had my my bicep surgery in July. And I STILL can curl 10-15 lbs without irritating my tendon and getting a flare up. It's starting to fucking piss me off.
On the flip side it's not my muscle that's the problem it's the tendon where the repair was gets irritated.

So maybe since yours was a muscle tear that's why adding anabolics worked for you. As for me it was all tendon. And from what i understand anabolics only grow and repair muscle. Not tendons. So growing muscle if anything isn't going to help. Because my tendon doesn't like curling even the lightest of weight it seems. .
That's why I figured it's best to wait.

Trust me I'm itching for progress and growth. Lol my physique is hitting some LOWS right now