malfeasance
Member
I doubt I am even aware of "all the possible options," much less having maxed them all out.
But, medication, cardiovascular exercise, and dropped about 30 pounds.
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
Nebivolol for lowering RHR
- Thread starter y777
- Start date
But, medication, cardiovascular exercise, and dropped about 30 pounds.
Eddie.
Member
Gotcha. I mean, you could hover ~230 and still fix all your issues with ancillaries. I'd gladly take a combination of bp meds and retain a physique that i like and i'm comfortable with than losing weight just for the sake of "better overall health".
Of course it's not sustainable to be 260 at 10-12% at 50+ but 220-230 is easy and definitely not "too much" (unless you're 5'5 obviously)
Sicsemptyran
Member
6'3"
rexy
Member
For me personally, the reason I keep on top of lowering HR on gear is not so much the HR number in absolute terms, but the reason it gets there and what it is relative to when i'm off gear. In addition to that, i also feel the beats are stronger and it can be uncomfortable - especially lay down - and I can end up jittery.
I'm usually around 65bpm off gear. On it, I go straight to 85+ because all the gear increases beta adrenergic load, sensitising to your own catecholamines as well. Test, Tren and Nand being the major contributors - possibly MENT too based on what some others have reported. Mast will do it too, though I haven't used Primo enough to see for sure. For me, pretty much all AAS raise HR to some degree and it's a case of how much.
Early on in a cycle, Nebivolol at 5mg will mitigate that increase back down to 65-70bpm even if the stimulus is moderate Test/Tren (e.g 600mg Test/200mg Tren). Around week 16, 5mg starts to lose its ability to modulate it and it'll creep up and feel uncomfortable, and when I include HGH as well, I end up circling 95bpm at rest regardless of the 5mg Nebivolol or whether it's early or late in the cycle. It'll start from day 1 with HGH.
I'm particularly sensitive to the beta adrenergic side of gear as this shows, which is made worse if the AAS/PED increases conversion of T4 to T3 like Tren/HGH do, so I use beta blockers and Iva to control it.
If I was around 80bpm+ or so just naturally, or if the HR increase on gear didn't feel physically different like I'm stimmed up, I wouldn't be so concerned about lowering it. The huge leap from 65bpm to 85-95+ directly from gear depending on whether HGH is involved shows me I'm probably better off doing something to mitigate some of that load. I don't typically mind where it sits at during the cycling as long as it avgs 75bpm. I personally don't try to push into the 60s or as low as I can. Just mid 70s.
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BamaCrazy
Banned
Cilnilyv by Helios Pharmaceuticals is what they sent me. It was delivered today. I am not sure why they told me Cilniheal but I’m sure this works just as well.
I'm trying a test order to see if it can get through custom but ordering from @PCT24X7 PHARMACY takes ages!
Dude answer email once or twice a day maximum. It's a bit tiring : /
It's 4 days I'm trying to finalize this order lol
malfeasance
Member
Thanks. That does add context. Your post on weight that made a difference is helpful (post #156).
Unfortunately, for me that means quite a bit lower, at three inches shorter.
There was a significant difference dropping from 250s to 220s. I have dropped into the 2teens a couple of times without noticing any major difference.
I have been looking at the research (papers, studies) and apparently there is a size relationship to blood pressure. Lower BMI correlates positively to lower blood pressure.
malfeasance
Member
At 209 and 6'3", you are really, really close to "normal" BMI (26.1), just barely into "overweight."
Unfortunately, at 223 pounds (this morning after waking up and peeing), I am not normal, not overweight, but in the "obese" category.
At 6 foot, I have to drop down 40 pounds to get to "normal" (184 pounds would put me at the upper end of normal). Even if I get the effect you had while still barely into "overweight" I would have to drop down to 192 pounds to get the same BMI as you (26.1) at 209. Height makes a big difference in BMI.
Sicsemptyran
Member
Yeah that is a bit of a pain in the ass - It definitely helps being as lean as possible (within reason) because it allows that weight to be as low as possible while still being as "big" as possible.
I really do not mind taking blood pressure meds and they work spectacularly on me, so going higher in weight has never been an issue as I head towards 220-230-240 because I can keep it without issues. It really is interesting how there's that cliff at 210 though and I've seen others mention in other forums/threads that they have their own "cliff" that BP drops off at.
Deadpool99
Member
So guys I wanted to get ur thoughts on using Nebivolol while using 40-60mcg t3 + 120mcg clen. In theory It shouldn't hinder the fat loss aspects of this stack correct? The mechanisms they work both raise RHR but when I reduce it with Nebivolol it shouldn't hinder the actual fat loss itself right?
Ghoul
Member
It'll almost neutralize Clen's effect, and reduce it slightly from T3.
Deadpool99
Member
sheittttt.... thank god I asked. I would not like to run that stack while blunting their effects.
BamaCrazy
Banned
Are you taking Nebivolol to reduce your RHR, or your BP? I do not get much of a RHR reduction on Nebivolol.
Deadpool99
Member
Mainly rhr, I don't get bp issues from any compound. I usually have rhr thats fairly acceptable on 120mcg clen between 85-95. sustainable short term, as long as its not hitting the 100 mark. Was just curious as I want to add t3.
I looked at some dnp cycles and got hooked, but decided clen + t3 might do the job similarly, if I can run them double the time I would usually be able to run dnp, I could get similar fat loss results without risking organ failure.
Deadpool99
Member
2 weeks into clen it goes down closer to the 85 mark.
Sicsemptyran
Member
I’m going to have to disagree with this.. It certainly mitigates much of the the RMR effects, but the B2 effects (and slight B3) are still driving a differential nutrient partitioning effect.
There’s a reason albuterol and clenbuterol still have a huge impact on asthma in those on selective beta blockers, because B2 is still fair game.
Deadpool99
Member
I have another reason against albuterol:
Half-life difference:
- Clen has 34–36 hr half-life, giving a nearly continuous b2 receptor stimulation which yield a higher overall TDEE across 24 hr.
- Albuterol: ~4–6 hr half-life so you’d need 3–4 evenly spaced doses per day to even approach clen’s total metabolic stimulation, and even then, peaks and troughs reduce the cumulative thermogenic effect.
In theory I'd think u can claim albuterol is effective but you'd need to aggressively dose it.
Sicsemptyran
Member
Not really sure that is against my comment at all, I was just saying that Nebivolol doesn’t impact the effects of B2 agonists, not that albuterol is as good as clenbuterol for fat loss.
Yeah, albuterol has to be dosed usually 4 times a day for symptom management. Not saying it’s better than clenbuterol.
Deadpool99
Member
sry I was researching albuterol and dumped that on u.
My initial theory was at low nebivolol doses (2.5mg-5mg) it would keep clen’s B2 fat-burning and nutrient-partitioning effects are mostly intact, only the B1-driven HR/BP effects are blunted are it's one of the most selective beta blockers.
Sicsemptyran
Member
Yeah I’m in agreement there. You lose the RMR increase from a calorie perspective, but still keep the others. Just means low intensity steady state cardio while doing it is more important to take advantage of the liberated fatty acids since you don’t get the all day RMR increase.
