Bulking on keto experiences

[Mads2]

Anyone tried a caloric surplus of keto? Currently doing doing 4k kcal with a daily carb intake of 20-25g
I havent been able to find many anecdotes on this. Im simply doing it to switch things up and try something new. So far my glycogen stores have emptied and my "bulky" look is gone, altho i do like the leanness my face has gotten.

Has anybody had success or past experiences with keto on a bulk?

 

[HeatherSwanson]

Mucked around with keto, OMAD and fasting a lot. Its a battle with no glycogen like you said. Up salt intake and keep calories up in the surplus band so you don't get fat and it can be done. More of a mind game than anything. Pumps are weird and small, but mental clarity is good.
Some guys do refeeds of carbs once a week and do heavy days or big compound movements day of or next day.
You'll feel gassed quicker, i found that to be unavoidable.

 

[eery]

what are your specific goals, what are you trying to achieve? put on as much muscle as possible? strength? power? what does your training look like? high reps, intensity techniues, higher volume and so on is going to be harder on keto for example.

i dont think pure keto would be the most efficient way of achieving that. Id have periworkout carbs atleast, or refeeds.

 

[readalot]

Currently doing doing 4k kcal with a daily carb intake of 20-25g

Daily protein intake (g)?

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[bossetti]

But why so much hype in the keto?

 

[Eddie.]

Id have periworkout carbs atleast, or refeeds

Still, not a keto although some expert bros they call it modified keto. If you have 50 + 50 grams it’s a low carb. Keto is when your body is in ketosis all the time, like 7/7. If you’re not used on keto even a refeed per week could put you out of ketosis for couple days, so all in all it’s a lame approach.

Personally I don’t see any reason why someone who wants to build muscles could do keto. Not a single pro or good level amateur is bulking on keto or even low carb.

If someone wants to retain a good cognitive function, either do keto and get used to shitty workouts and minimal muscle building or just man up and do low fat high carb and take some modafinil.

 

[Tdeck81]

Still, not a keto although some expert bros they call it modified keto. If you have 50 + 50 grams it’s a low carb. Keto is when your body is in ketosis all the time, like 7/7. If you’re not used on keto even a refeed per week could put you out of ketosis for couple days, so all in all it’s a lame approach.

Personally I don’t see any reason why someone who wants to build muscles could do keto. Not a single pro or good level amateur is bulking on keto or even low carb.

If someone wants to retain a good cognitive function, either do keto and get used to shitty workouts and minimal muscle building or just man up and do low fat high carb and take some modafinil.

Agree 100%. when I tried it, it left me flat/lethargic. The weight came off as advertised, but I KNOW I lost an ungodly amount of muscle and strength. I think true keto is almost counterproductive to what most of us are trying to achieve.

 

[Eddie.]

Agree 100%. when I tried it, it left me flat/lethargic. The weight came off as advertised, but I KNOW I lost an ungodly amount of muscle and strength. I think true keto is almost counterproductive to what most of us are trying to achieve.

Haven't tried it and never will, unless it's required due to a medical condition..like cancer, NAFLD etc. Otherwise it's just a fad. You can achieve everything with normal diets, no need for OMAD, KETO, sugar or whatever else someone thinks out there. Basically, i'm talking about guys who try to look like bodybuilders and not normies, obviously. Otherwise everything is fine from the moment you enjoy doing it.

Although i love meat, if i didn't bodybuild i'd probably eat meat once or max twice a week. Also i've done intermitted fasting and i really liked it since my appetite in the mornings is lame even on diet. I'd gladly eat from 14:00 to 22:00 every day. But for bodybuilding purposes? Not good.

 

[Mads2]

what are your specific goals, what are you trying to achieve? put on as much muscle as possible? strength? power? what does your training look like? high reps, intensity techniues, higher volume and so on is going to be harder on keto for example.

i dont think pure keto would be the most efficient way of achieving that. Id have periworkout carbs atleast, or refeeds.

My stomach seem to bloat on carbs somewhat. Its very flat now, which it hasnt been for quiet a while. Also, i forgot to mention that i also wanted to do keto do to my 10mg ED tren cycle i recently started. Havent touched tren in years but i remember how it reacted with carbs and have no intentions of combining the two again.

 

[Mads2]

Daily protein intake (g)?

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Each subforum has a different focus. For example:

The "Steroid Forum" subforum emphasizes the use of anabolic steroids to increase muscle size, strength and performance;

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+300g of P and F. Sorry i shoulda mentioned

 

[readalot]

+300g of P and F. Sorry i shoulda mentioned

So we will call it "modified" keto or a variant of Dr. Mario D's Anabolic Diet.

I am guilty of calling it "modified" keto all the time but very low chance you are in ketosis with 300 g P per day. Gluconeogenesis, etc. Anyway, I've been eating like this for 10 years and think of it as making my body work hard to get carbs, haha.

 

[AlexDavis43]

Keto is quite possibly the worst bulking diet for bodybuilding

Carbs are way more anabolic than dietary fat and if you're in a surplus, dietary fat is way easier to store as body fat compared to carbs

No one doing proper high fat keto is going to gain a substantial amount of muscle in a bulk compared to if they were eating low fat high carb

 

[readalot]

Keto is quite possibly the worst bulking diet for bodybuilding

Carbs are way more anabolic than dietary fat and if you're in a surplus, dietary fat is way easier to store as body fat compared to carbs

No one doing proper high fat keto is going to gain a substantial amount of muscle in a bulk compared to if they were eating low fat high carb

Let's "modify":
40-50% kcal from P, 60-50% kcal from F for those with shit insulin sensitivity? What say you?

Viable option to maximize FFMI with minimum BF accrual?

Heresy?

 

[AlexDavis43]

40-50% kcal from P, 60-50% kcal from F

We're still talking about a bulking diet, right? Not what you've been doing for years or however long.

for those with shit insulin sensitivity?

how the fuck have you been lean & training on "modified keto" for years and have shit insulin sensitivity ?

Viable option to maximize FFMI with minimum BF accrual?

FFMI? Shhhh, the adults are talking. FFMI is what natty's talk about.

 

[readalot]

how the fuck have you been lean & training on "modified keto" for years and have shit insulin sensitivity ?

A gift / curse I guess.

I feel fat whenever I eat carbs. Maybe I have a mental disorder.

 

[readalot]

We're still talking about a bulking diet, right?

An eating plan to gain muscle with little to no additional fat accrual. Yes.

 

[Tdeck81]

I won’t discount anyones program. if it works for you, run with it. But man, that sounds like a constant grind. My short term experiment, 4 months, was like an uphill battle. I give you a lot of credit for making it work long term.

 

[DinoBB76]

In my experience, the words keto and bodybuilding are a pair to avoid.

True keto doesn't include high protein intakes like 250/300+.

A keto diet is fine for obese people or people who want to lose weight quickly by taking advantage of ketosis, but when it comes to bodybuilding, it makes no sense at all. Muscles need carbohydrates and the use of insulin (exogenous or endogenous).

 

[Mads2]

So we will call it "modified" keto or a variant of Dr. Mario D's Anabolic Diet.

I am guilty of calling it "modified" keto all the time but very low chance you are in ketosis with 300 g P per day. Gluconeogenesis, etc. Anyway, I've been eating like this for 10 years and think of it as making my body work hard to get carbs, haha.

Is it because the protein will be converted into sugers which in turn will result in no ketosis?
How do you respond to this sort of diet since you mentioned you've done it for a while now?

 

[AlexDavis43]

Is it because the protein will be converted into sugers which in turn will result in no ketosis?

To oversimplify:

High protein intake is good at replenishing liver glycogen but shit at replenishing skeletal muscle glycogen (need carbs for that)

Ketones are made from partial fatty acid oxidation in the liver, but liver is full of glycogen from high protein intake, so it's not going to be partially oxidizing fatty acids to produce ketones

There are modified keto diets for people who need high ketones and prefer a more balanced diet (for example, kids with epilepsy); those diets have a lot of coconut oil MCTs that bypass all roadblocks and get turned into ketones