E2 range, gonadi and libido

[ganciodestro]

Hi guys, I’m currently using 125 mg of testosterone cypionate, with one injection every Monday, and 100 mg of testosterone propionate divided into two injections, one on Monday with 50 mg along with cypionate, and one on Thursday, basically every 3.5 days.

I’m now in my fourth week, and my libido was fine, not overwhelming but okay. No HCG because I had run out...

Now that I’ve got the HCG back, I started with 250 IU on Monday and began noticing an unusually high libido in the following days—devastatingly strong... I thought, "Wow, I really like this!" I did 500 IU again on Friday, then Monday again, and from that point on, I started experiencing a crash in my libido. Now, it’s really low, no morning erections, and even difficulty getting aroused or having a solid erection. I’ve lost all sexual desire.

I haven’t done any blood work before or after... Could it be that my estrogen levels are too high, or maybe it’s the HCG indirectly lowering my libido? Because, I don’t notice any water retention, nor any swelling in my face or nipples—no signs of high estrogen side effects...

I wanted to ask, what do you think is the optimal estrogen range for having great libido? Should it always be within the range, or should it be adjusted according to free testosterone levels?

 

[RonaldRt]

Honestly it’s stupid of you to just not do bloodwork but the past is the past. Get bloodwork going into this hobby without bloodwork is begging to crash hard. It’s like driving blind.

 

[2ndchancesNK]

Hi guys, I’m currently using 125 mg of testosterone cypionate, with one injection every Monday, and 100 mg of testosterone propionate divided into two injections, one on Monday with 50 mg along with cypionate, and one on Thursday, basically every 3.5 days.

I’m now in my fourth week, and my libido was fine, not overwhelming but okay. No HCG because I had run out...

Now that I’ve got the HCG back, I started with 250 IU on Monday and began noticing an unusually high libido in the following days—devastatingly strong... I thought, "Wow, I really like this!" I did 500 IU again on Friday, then Monday again, and from that point on, I started experiencing a crash in my libido. Now, it’s really low, no morning erections, and even difficulty getting aroused or having a solid erection. I’ve lost all sexual desire.

I haven’t done any blood work before or after... Could it be that my estrogen levels are too high, or maybe it’s the HCG indirectly lowering my libido? Because, I don’t notice any water retention, nor any swelling in my face or nipples—no signs of high estrogen side effects...

I wanted to ask, what do you think is the optimal estrogen range for having great libido? Should it always be within the range, or should it be adjusted according to free testosterone levels?

I’m a bit confused on your first paragraph — is this for TRT?

One thing is certain, taking testosterone prop twice a week is not a great idea. Propionate should ideally be shot ED, and even EOD is pushing it for most. 2x a week is not allowing for stable levels. Keep it simple and stick to one ester.

Also, HCG can raise your E2 levels. It sounds like you don’t have this portion of the protocol down.

For anybody to be able to give you any helpful advice you need to get your bloodwork and post it.

 

[RonaldRt]

if you can’t inject more frequently take a different ester P isn’t for you. if you are only willing to do it 2 times a week take Test E instead smoother and less injections. But doing your research would help a lot more than us telling you after the fact especially since this is common knowledge. But as I said this is harm reduction forum so we are here to help

 

[AIRBORNE DADDY]

Do you take an ai? Just an e2 test you could get for about 30 bucks....

 

[Eddie.]

That’s one of the worst protocols I’ve seen. Prop twice a week, HCG twice a week.. and enanthate once a week, it’s very far from optimal. Your hormones go up n down constantly. Also, I’m betting your e2 if you’re not taking AI will be very high, especially with that nonsensical pinning frequency.

Bloodwork ASAP and ffs spread evenly your injections. Test enanthate twice per week, test prop every day and HCG at least 3 times a week. Post the labs once you do them.

 

[Deezznutzz]

That’s one of the worst protocols I’ve seen. Prop twice a week, HCG twice a week.. and enanthate once a week, it’s very far from optimal. Your hormones go up n down constantly. Also, I’m betting your e2 if you’re not taking AI will be very high, especially with that nonsensical pinning frequency.

Bloodwork ASAP and ffs spread evenly your injections. Test enanthate twice per week, test prop every day and HCG at least 3 times a week. Post the labs once you do them.

Hcg 2x a week if fine. Most Dr's prescribe it 2x a week.

 

[Eddie.]

Hcg 2x a week if fine. Most Dr's prescribe it 2x a week.

Nah it’s not. It has 24-30 hours half-life. It will lead to a big influx of estrogen and neurosteroids which is unnecessary. Frequent administration and stable serum levels with hormones is key if you don’t wanna yoyoing your mood, libido etc

 

[ganciodestro]

Hi guys, thanks for the replies. I’m well aware it wasn’t smart to skip blood work before starting, but I’ll take care of it now, of course. I also know that propionate isn’t ideal when done just twice a week — it should really be pinned every day or at least EOD.
I used it as a kickstart, and now that I’m in my fifth week, I’d like to drop the prop and add another 125 mg of test cyp (so 125 on Monday and 125 on Thursday). That should help keep my levels stable.

I’ve never used any AI because back when I was using over 500 mg of test, my E2 never went above 60. So I assumed that with just 225 mg of test, I wouldn’t have any issues with aromatization (and in fact I haven’t had any water retention or nipple sensitivity).

I’ve been using HCG twice a week — it’s a protocol that’s always worked well for me.
When I first started the Gonasi, I had a big spike in libido for about a week, and then it completely crashed. That was most likely due to elevated E2, right?

Here’s my second (and more important) question:
What’s the ideal E2 range for maintaining good libido? Should it be within the standard lab reference range, or should it be looked at in relation to free testosterone?

 

[RonaldRt]

Hi guys, thanks for the replies. I’m well aware it wasn’t smart to skip blood work before starting, but I’ll take care of it now, of course. I also know that propionate isn’t ideal when done just twice a week — it should really be pinned every day or at least EOD.
I used it as a kickstart, and now that I’m in my fifth week, I’d like to drop the prop and add another 125 mg of test cyp (so 125 on Monday and 125 on Thursday). That should help keep my levels stable.

I’ve never used any AI because back when I was using over 500 mg of test, my E2 never went above 60. So I assumed that with just 225 mg of test, I wouldn’t have any issues with aromatization (and in fact I haven’t had any water retention or nipple sensitivity).

I’ve been using HCG twice a week — it’s a protocol that’s always worked well for me.
When I first started the Gonasi, I had a big spike in libido for about a week, and then it completely crashed. That was most likely due to elevated E2, right?

Here’s my second (and more important) question:
What’s the ideal E2 range for maintaining good libido? Should it be within the standard lab reference range, or should it be looked at in relation to free testosterone?

At least from personal experience around the 50-60/ng is when I feel the best without crazy bloat, but it differs from person to person. Do blood work you said you will and then if it’s higher than 80 then you need to get that lowered. The thing with estrogen is you don’t want to take anything to lower it if you don’t need to(estrogen sides).

 

[ganciodestro]

At least from personal experience around the 50-60/ng is when I feel the best without crazy bloat, but it differs from person to person. Do blood work you said you will and then if it’s higher than 80 then you need to get that lowered. The thing with estrogen is you don’t want to take anything to lower it if you don’t need to(estrogen sides).

Right now, I don’t really notice many estrogenic side effects, except for a sudden drop in libido and very unstable mood… I’m feeling quite irritable and a bit paranoid. Aesthetically, I don’t have any noticeable water retention or nipple sensitivity (just slightly firm nipples, nothing major).

Let’s assume that my bloodwork shows estrogen levels above 80 — what should I do in that case? Arimidex or Aromasin? I’m afraid of crashing my estrogen by taking an AI…

Also, if I do take an AI, when should I get bloodwork again to monitor things? For example, if I take it on Monday, when would be the right time to recheck?

---

 

[RonaldRt]

Arimidex from personal experience is VERY potent and can crash estrogen too low if your not careful. I would try Aromasin 6.25mg eod and 5-7 days later retest estrogen. Don’t worry so much about numbers with estrogen, but if it’s too high then yea you will need most likely an AI. If your getting the blood work on Monday retest on Sunday or that next Monday AI don’t take long to take effect.

 

[ganciodestro]

Arimidex from personal experience is VERY potent and can crash estrogen too low if your not careful. I would try Aromasin 6.25mg eod and 5-7 days later retest estrogen. Don’t worry so much about numbers with estrogen, but if it’s too high then yea you will need most likely an AI. If your getting the blood work on Monday retest on Sunday or that next Monday AI don’t take long to take effect.

Is it really true that Arimidex is more powerful than Aromasin? I've always heard that in terms of percentage, Aromasin lowers estrogen levels much more.
You also say that taking it EOD (every other day) is correct? I've heard of some people taking it once a week or twice a week, do you think that is ineffective?"

"It would also be optimal to use Proviron as an anti-estrogen, but it lowers my HDL too much… at least it did for me. In one month at 25mg, it brought my HDL down to 17 points two years ago. Since I’m on TRT, I would have to take these dosages for a long time."

 

[RonaldRt]

Is it really true that Arimidex is more powerful than Aromasin? I've always heard that in terms of percentage, Aromasin lowers estrogen levels much more.
You also say that taking it EOD (every other day) is correct? I've heard of some people taking it once a week or twice a week, do you think that is ineffective?"

"It would also be optimal to use Proviron as an anti-estrogen, but it lowers my HDL too much… at least it did for me. In one month at 25mg, it brought my HDL down to 17 points two years ago. Since I’m on TRT, I would have to take these dosages for a long time."

Well both do different things arimidex is used at around 2x a week aromasin forces your body to make new aromatase enzymes. But it’s more gentle. Arimidex blocks it entirely but doesn’t destroy it. You get the same results but one is gentler due to it needing time. Arimidex is very quick, aromisin takes time.

 

[vapor77]

Well both do different things arimidex is used at around 2x a week aromasin forces your body to make new aromatase enzymes. But it’s more gentle. Arimidex blocks it entirely but doesn’t destroy it. You get the same results but one is gentler due to it needing time. Arimidex is very quick, aromisin takes time.

"The PK properties of the 25-mg dose showed the highest exemestane concentrations 1 h after administration, indicating rapid absorption. The terminal half-life was 8.9 h. Maximal estradiol suppression of 62 ± 14% was observed at 12 h." https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article-abstract/88/12/5951/2661508?redirectedFrom=fulltext

Aromasin maximum suppression in 12h.

 

[RonaldRt]

Aromasin maximum suppression in 12h.

I believed that armidex was quicker and it took time for aromisin to build up since it’s known as the “kamikaze AI”. Good to know

 

[ganciodestro]

Aromasin maximum suppression in 12h.

Aromasin maximum suppression in 12h.

Are there any data that show an estimate in percentage of how much Aromasin (Exemestane) can lower estrogen levels?
For example, if I were to take 6mg EOD as suggested in a previous message, what percentage of suppression should I expect? Are there any estimates or personal experiences?
I’ve read online that the suppression from Aromasin is around 90%, so even with very high estrogen levels, like 100, you’d end up with a value around 10... This would lead to all the side effects of very low estrogen.

 

[Eddie.]

Are there any data that show an estimate in percentage of how much Aromasin (Exemestane) can lower estrogen levels?
For example, if I were to take 6mg EOD as suggested in a previous message, what percentage of suppression should I expect? Are there any estimates or personal experiences?
I’ve read online that the suppression from Aromasin is around 90%, so even with very high estrogen levels, like 100, you’d end up with a value around 10... This would lead to all the side effects of very low estrogen.

Aromasin is more lipid friendly than arimidex. It has a bigger halflife which means you can take it every 3-4 days and you'll be fine, while arimidex is better when taken more frequently to avoid ups n downs.

As far as potency from anecdotal reports arimidex is stronger, especially with higher test dosages. You'll need enough aromasin to crash your e2 but once you crash it you'll have to wait longer for e2 to climb up again. Both has pros and cons, it's up to you what suits you better. Personally if i was a high aromatizer and planned to do a high test cycle i'd go with arimidex, but for lower test dosages and especially for long term use aromasin would be my go 2.

 

[ganciodestro]

Aromasin is more lipid friendly than arimidex. It has a bigger halflife which means you can take it every 3-4 days and you'll be fine, while arimidex is better when taken more frequently to avoid ups n downs.

As far as potency from anecdotal reports arimidex is stronger, especially with higher test dosages. You'll need enough aromasin to crash your e2 but once you crash it you'll have to wait longer for e2 to climb up again. Both has pros and cons, it's up to you what suits you better. Personally if i was a high aromatizer and planned to do a high test cycle i'd go with arimidex, but for lower test dosages and especially for long term use aromasin would be my go 2.

am currently using a total of 225 mg of testosterone, this week increased to 250 mg (125 mg of testosterone cypionate twice a week) I don't have any aesthetic side effects from high estrogen (like water retention or nipple issues), but I’ve noticed a drastic drop in libido over the past week. I’d like to try the lowest possible dose of aromasin, what would you recommend? 6 mg every 4 days? And should I do a blood work test 7 days after the first dose?"

 

[ganciodestro]

Obviously, before taking aromasin, I will get blood tests done tomorrow to assess if my E2 levels are actually high.